The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

Ed Williams · Apr 5, 2005

I'm with ya, big man...

ZaZ said:
Speaking of lyin' arse soaks, Ed, put the wings away, buddy. You aren't foolin' anyone. Besides, as chaperone, you must condone and will be prone to acts so vile, girls gone wild, just keep the car in gear and revvin.' There will come a time when we ditch the sheep and Kevin.

....what was I thinkin'?

Oh, and I got an email this morning from someone from PA, they wanted to know if PA wouldn't let them out of their contract, would they possibly consider continuing to print the books as ordered and just leave their logo off?

Classic....

P.S. Diana, congrats, I'm proud of you but not surprised by your success in the least!

Sparhawk · Apr 5, 2005

WhisperingBard said:
Diana, you rock! Success *is* the best revenge!

Yay Diana... AWESOME !!! :hooray:

robeiae · Apr 5, 2005

victoriastrauss said:
Or for Option 3, which I still think is at least a remote possibility...transitioning to a more straightforward vanity/self-pub model. They could do this and still keep their hook, which distinguishes them from other vanity PODs--no upfront payments.

Or how 'bout this...One of those "tweener" models that asks for "help" from the authors in publishing their books. They can transition to it in the same way they are changing the editng options:

We recognize how difficult self-promotion can be for first-time authors. To help, we are offering a new publishing option which includes additional marketing and promotional help beyond all that we already provide. You still won't be "paying to publish;" the additional monies will be used exclusively to further enhance the marketing of your book. To make this more affordable, rather than paying an upfront fee, we allow you to pay for this service from your book royalties. But buy selecting this option, you will no doubt sell many, many more books, so you will still see more (not less) royalties!!

Rob

James D. Macdonald · Apr 5, 2005

Ed Williams said:
Oh, and I got an email this morning from someone from PA, they wanted to know if PA wouldn't let them out of their contract, would they possibly consider continuing to print the books as ordered and just leave their logo off?

Or, they could get the book back, and print it through Lulu.com (for half the price). There's an option there to leave off the Lulu logo. It's a menu item.

If you just want to have your book printed the way you wrote it, guys...

Sher2 · Apr 5, 2005

Big No. 6?

Just heard from someone who's seen a contract signed by another "general partner," Michele Omran. Dang, has Poz gone co-op?

DeePower · Apr 5, 2005

Welcome Michele Omran Another PA partner

Add Michele Omran to the list of general partners signing contracts for PublishAmerica.

Michele Omran [email protected] Acquisitions Supervisor

Dee

Literary Lola · Apr 5, 2005

JennaGlatzer said:
Lindy, it ain't just you... I've been getting frustrated for Ken because I feel like he's answered the same thing about five times already.

So, Ken, now that I know the whole scoop, anyone who asks you again, you just send 'em to me and I'll be your spokesperson.

Mea culpa, mea culpa. Jenna, Ken, you have my permission to take me out back and whup me with Meiner's limp wrist. You're absolutely right; I beat a dead horse with this topic and this is something I'm not given to doing. Is it the water I drank? Editing is sort of a passion with me (gee, really??) and I burped far more than needed.

While I do stand behind my comments, there are times when it's prudent to back away from the bong and go smell a rose. My hiney remains at your disposal to kick as you see fit. Jes' don't give me a red thingy!

Oh, and Diana, like, totally major wow.

DaveKuzminski · Apr 5, 2005

Here's what you do is you have a writer friend or group that doesn't believe you or the truth about PA. Tell them to each submit something to PA using the form on the PA site. When PA asks for the manuscript, send in a manuscript that's been prepped with some intentional errors a few pages in such as name and gender changes of the main characters, misspellings, poor punctuation, poor grammar, and some repeated pages. It doesn't have to be a lot. It only has to be just enough that the author would reasonably expect a rejection from Random House or some other fine publisher if it was sent to them instead. Then tell the author(s) to watch for a response from PA.

If PA accepts the manuscript, that ought to tell the author right there that PA didn't read through the manuscript. If all of your writing group is accepted, what does that tell you then, knowing as I do that most such groups display a cross-section of ability since some will have more skill than others?

Of course, don't let your writer friends throw their manuscripts away for seven years. Remind them that they don't want a contract with that many strings attached and that they should decline.

Just remember the point is that you're proving to them that PA accepts almost anything.

Patricia · Apr 5, 2005

XThe NavigatorX said:
The problem is the name "PublishAmerica" is mud. No matter what they do, their actions to this point are going to be held against them. Today, tomorrow, and ten years from now, anyone who's paid just a little bit of attention is going to have a nasty impression of them, even if they clean up their act.

I agree 100%. Anyone involved with or knows the ins and outs of the art world; know that once fraud is connected with your name it is MUD. Well in the publishing world, PA is MUD. The only ones they could possible bamboozle would be the very naive. In addition, at some point even those have to dwindle to nothing.

akaa1a · Apr 5, 2005

"Add Michele Omran to the list of general partners signing contracts for PublishAmerica."

Perhaps PA is "outsourcing"! :Wha:

What a great twist THAT would be!

Ed Williams · Apr 5, 2005

Outsourcing blame...

akaa1a said:
"Add Michele Omran to the list of general partners signing contracts for PublishAmerica." Perhaps PA is "outsourcing"! What a great twist THAT would be!

...would probably be more like it, interesting to note all these possible internal changes over at PA. Wonder what's going on?

Here's something sad - yet another generation of PA authors excitedly discussing purchasing each other's books:

http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/8555.htm

You know, it's hard to believe that Moe-randa, Larry, Curlem, and The POD Squad can't feel a twinge about all this. Whatever happens to them in the end will cause me to feel not one twinge of sympathy for them...

WhisperingBard · Apr 5, 2005

Just heard from someone who's seen a contract signed by another "general partner," Michele Omran. Dang, has Poz gone co-op?

I still say they're setting up others to take the fall for them. Dastardly doings, eh?

Literary Lola · Apr 5, 2005

Ed Williams said:
You know, it's hard to believe that Moe-randa, Larry, Curlem, and The POD Squad can't feel a twinge about all this. Whatever happens to them in the end will cause me to feel not one twinge of sympathy for them...

Ed, honey, the only twinge those guys feel is when their wallets get a little empty. How can one tell? Simple, they send out the "Hey, we're having a fire sale on books" email. Then they do their Evita Peron thing and watch the money roll on in while singing, "We're an ooo, ooo, ooo, ooo, ooo scammin' machine..."

WhisperingBard · Apr 5, 2005

Simple, they send out the "Hey, we're having a fire sale on books" email.

Speaking of which, hasn't it been quite some time since they've offered one of their "specials"? Must not be feeling too generous these days (except, of course, when it comes to handing out partnerships).

realitychuck · Apr 5, 2005

Ed Williams said:
You know, it's hard to believe that Moe-randa, Larry, Curlem, and The POD Squad can't feel a twinge about all this. .

Not hard to believe at all. If they had any sympathy for their authors, there wouldn't be a PA in the first place. (You've seen how they communicate with their authors who ask about problems.) I'm sure they sleep very well at night.

Other then their nightmares about the cops coming by, that is.

James D. Macdonald · Apr 5, 2005

Ah, yes! The old "I know! Let's buy each others' books!" plan. That one comes around every three to six months, and the new writers all think it's the greatest, cleverest plan, and that no one ever thought of it before.

So after they've bought $200 worth of books (ten books) and they discover that nine out of those ten suck...

Then they drop off the boards and make way for more Happy Authors who come up with a clever plan! Let's buy each other's books!

====================

Here's more about Michele Omran.

Canada James · Apr 5, 2005

Editing vs. Stocking

DaveKuzminski said:
When PA asks for the manuscript, send in a manuscript that's been prepped with some intentional errors a few pages in such as name and gender changes of the main characters, misspellings, poor punctuation, poor grammar, and some repeated pages.
If PA accepts the manuscript, that ought to tell the author right there that PA didn't read through the manuscript.
Just remember the point is that you're proving to them that PA accepts almost anything.

I think that can work against us. There are many writers who will think, "Hey, if PA accepts anything then they'll accept me for sure! My work is brilliant, so their 'no editing' policy really doesn't matter." Fanstory was a great example of that line of thought.
This is why I think the whole "Atlanta Nights"/"Purple Pony" stings were only successful in getting media attention and not really a deterrent to new writers desperate to get published. What will (and probably is) getting the new release count down is/will be this:

My preferred method is to give them a few ISBNs of PA titles. Then I suggest they walk into/phone at least 5 bookstores and ask if they stock these books, and what the chances are that they would.
Even writers who think their work is above editing, don't think their work is above bookstore stocking.

Canada James

Sher2 · Apr 5, 2005

WhisperingBard said:
I still say they're setting up others to take the fall for them. Dastardly doings, eh?

Stipid dastidly bastids. :Smack:

Guess what was waiting in my mailbox this afternoon? None other than a notice to pick up a letter from Poz at the P.O. I'm not picking it up. Anybody know how many times they'll try to deliver the thing? I can avoid the postman for as long as it takes. Unless he rings twice... Ooops, small fugue state. I ain't signing for no freakin' Poz stuff, period.

Kate, I know you're up to your eyebrows in boxes, but it's time to organize the sit-in. I'm ready to chain myself to a radiator and sing Kumbaya. :ROFL:

DaveKuzminski · Apr 5, 2005

Canada James offered another good idea. Suggest it as well to your friends.

In the meantime, PA may have new competition in the form of Amazon which according to this news article at URL http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7386211/ has bought BookSurge.

underthecity · Apr 5, 2005

DaveKuzminski said:
PA may have new competition in the form of Amazon which according to this news article at URL http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7386211/ has bought BookSurge.

PA has nothing to worry about! Booksurge is POD, whereas PA is POD! Everyone knows the difference! After all, at PA, authors' books will get published. Booksurge merely prints them.

:horse: (Couldn't find the rolling eyes one)

OK, sarcasm off.

underthecity

reph · Apr 5, 2005

James D. Macdonald said:
Dorothy Deering was a true sociopath. On the day she was convicted, as she was being led out of the courthouse in handcuffs, she still didn't think she'd done anything wrong.

Another example: "Melanie Mills," who, it is alleged, scammed writers, faked her own death for personal gain, broke her mother's pelvis by running into her with a car, and pretended to have amnesia during a court appearance.

WhisperingBard · Apr 5, 2005

Stipid dastidly bastids.

Such eloquence, dear. :ROFL:

WhisperingBard · Apr 5, 2005

Another example: "Melanie Mills," who, it is alleged, scammed writers, faked her own death for personal gain, broke her mother's pelvis by running into her with a car, and pretended to have amnesia during a court appearance.

Ya know, I'm not naive. I know people can be real bastids. But damn! Her own mother? Just...damn. :Wha:

Sparhawk · Apr 5, 2005

Dollars and cents (Sense)

Ed Williams said:
...would probably be more like it, interesting to note all these possible internal changes over at PA. Wonder what's going on?

Here's something sad - yet another generation of PA authors excitedly discussing purchasing each other's books:

http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/8555.htm

You know, it's hard to believe that Moe-randa, Larry, Curlem, and The POD Squad can't feel a twinge about all this. Whatever happens to them in the end will cause me to feel not one twinge of sympathy for them...

10 PA writers agree to buy books monthly as this thread suggests. 10 people do so teh first month. The average cost of a PA book is $20.00 for this models case.

10*10*$20.00 = $2,000.
less 8% due to rayalites assuming no one has exceeded the 2K sales threshold ($160.00) to various writers. PA takes in $1,840 in one month. Now lets assume that other PA writers adopt this and it equates to the same variables. PA nets $22,800 per annum on a base model of 10 writers buying ten books each. BUt let's get realistic and revamp the equation. we'll say thirty three writers buy 3 PA books each month (seems more realistic).

33writers * 3 books each * $20.00 = $1,980 or $23,760 less $1900.8 in sales commissions to 33 writers. Each writer makes $57.58 while spending $60.00 at a net loss of $2.42. Assuming that a person buying three books will have three books sold. If a person buys three books and sells none of his own in this model he is totally sunk moneywise.

The only people making money here is the publisher. AND....AND There is no direct or sunk cost associated with these sales. As I stated prior.. you can't get a better business model or a better sales force. Imagine a commercial businesses sales force buying their companies products from each other?

I ask again in all humility that the motto of PA be examined. "We treat our Authors the old fashioned way... we pay them"

DaveKuzminski · Apr 5, 2005

WhisperingBard said:
Ya know, I'm not naive. I know people can be real bastids. But damn! Her own mother? Just...damn.

Well, she wasn't trying to break her mother's pelvis. After all, she was allegedly trying to kill the poor woman.

The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

Jenna's Cabana Boy

Touch and go

Your Genial Uncle

Auroraless ExPAtriate

DeePower

Preditors & Editors

California Dreaming

Giggle Collector

Wary...and weary

Wary...and weary

Hack Writer

Your Genial Uncle

Take off!

Auroraless ExPAtriate

Preditors & Editors

Finestkind

Fig of authority

Wary...and weary

Wary...and weary

Jenna's Cabana Boy

Preditors & Editors