The Pope is resigning

Maxx

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This feels quite weird. All of the abuse and pedophilia scandals didn't made them blink, and as for his health, they were this close of building JPII an exoskeleton battlemech when he died. My inner Diana Hignutt tells me there's something else going on.

You're probably right. One news story (somewhere) mentioned that there were some projects of the Pope that
were being put on a very far back back burner -- such as some kind of reconcilation with some ulta-conservative factions. I think there is likely to be some kind of modernization associated with the results of this resignation.
 

Xelebes

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If anyone receives spiritual or emotional wellbeing from being Catholic, feels their Catholic faith is important to them or the like, I don't think anyone who's commented here would criticise that. But the Pope is a man who has covered up for child abusers and pedophiles for years and has promoted a campaign of hatred towards LGBTQ people that, in countries where the church has more power, has had a devastating impact on the emotional, mental and physical wellbeing of millions.

I think the most damning action attributed to Benedict is the Inquisition against liberation theology and the permission for priests to be executed by fascist thugs in Latin America. The molestation cover-up and rallying against LGBT rights is a microcosm compared to the wrongs committed there. Callalily can expand on it as she was a victim of this inquisition. However, you would be correct to say that during his tenure as the pope, his biggest mark against him was those issues.

Right now there has been a change and one of the candidate cardinals is a supporter of liberation theology. It would be very surprising if he gets elected by the cardinals to become the pope.
 

Sarpedon

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He's actually been hinting at it for years.

I think its a wise move that will set a good precedent. The HRCC deserves a leader who is fit and on the ball.

I've heard people suggest he has other motives, but I find the idea that an 85 year old should resign because of health to be more believable.
 

Mara

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That's not very fair.



As explained above, he was addressing the Cardinals.

What is with this chip on people's shoulder? A good man is resigning because of severely bad health. This isn't a time for cheap shots.

This Pope has repeatedly called for greater oppression of people who are already being killed in many places. He has blood on his hands, and deserves no praise. You can choose to praise him if you want, just like you can choose to praise Fred Phelps or other people like that, but you shouldn't be surprised when people this man has oppressed aren't so respectful.

EDIT: Fixed typo.
 

Mara

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Also, for the record? I'm totally not Catholic-bashing. Most Catholics I know are awesome, and don't share this Pope's reprehensible views. He's an evil man and he should have never been given any sort of position of authority, much like a position representing a huge percentage of Christianity.
 

Shakesbear

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Is he really evil, or is it the position he held that has made him so? My understanding is that no pope in recent times has been a free agent to follow their conscience because the curia exert so much power and influence. I am not trying to excuse any of his actions, but am trying to make some sense of them.
 

Mara

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Is he really evil, or is it the position he held that has made him so? My understanding is that no pope in recent times has been a free agent to follow their conscience because the curia exert so much power and influence. I am not trying to excuse any of his actions, but am trying to make some sense of them.

He's been an arch-conservative for quite some time. I'm pretty sure he believes what he says.
 

raburrell

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I think the most damning action attributed to Benedict is the Inquisition against liberation theology and the permission for priests to be executed by fascist thugs in Latin America.
This.
Without belittling the impact of his attitudes and positions towards LGBT individuals, this is a much lesser known crime of his, and one I strongly believe he should answer for. If it's in the next life and not this one, so be it.
 

MattW

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There hasn't been too much time since the last elevation of a Pope, so I imagine the factions that existed then have the same influence now. I suspect , like raburrell, that this was a move to ensure a chosen successor instead of leaving it solely to the cardinals to decide. There is little doubt he is ill and his time is short, so I wish him peace. But the abdication is so rare that the motives are suspect.

If an Italian or a European is elected, you can bet that the church will continue on its current path. On the off chance that an African or Latin American is elected, more progressive doctrine is not guaranteed, but odds are better that poverty and injustice might become enemies of the RCC.
 

Shakesbear

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He's been an arch-conservative for quite some time. I'm pretty sure he believes what he says.

Adverse to change and wanting everything to stay the same does not, imo, make him evil but unaware of how potentially damaging that is to the RC church. If 'arch-conservative' is applied in a political sense, then I can see why he could be considered evil.
 

Sarpedon

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Not really, the College of Cardinals undergoes a pretty heavy turnaround, on account of it being made up entirely of old dudes. Benedict has plenty of time to ensconce his faction. According to Wiki, he's appointed 67 who are of the voting age. (80 or under), which is more than half.

I'm curious to see how many cardinals will be made in the next few weeks.
 
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rugcat

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Adverse to change and wanting everything to stay the same does not, imo, make him evil but unaware of how potentially damaging that is to the RC church. If 'arch-conservative' is applied in a political sense, then I can see why he could be considered evil.
As Cardinal Ratzenburger, he was up to his elbows in the effort to cover up the whole church molestation scandal, feeling that protecting the prestige and good name of the church were important above all else.

The Church had an opportunity to advance on many fronts, so imo it was a sad day when he was elevated to the papacy, and I fear the next Pope will now be more of the same.
 

Chris P

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I'll rely on an older analysis of when Benedict became pope: had the cardinals wanted things to stay the same for a long time they would have elected someone younger. Who they had in mind for a successor to Ratzinger is anyone's guess, and maybe irrelevant by now anyway.

And I'm not feeling any Catholic-person bashing here, except by extension. Because I chose to be part of that faith community, and because I put my money in the basket, it's easy to feel that attacks on the system trickle down to me for being part of it. But I've made my peace with the imperfections of the system and the people in it (and acceptance is not approval), so I have no desire to take issue with what people say about it.
 

MattW

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Not really, the College of Cardinals undergoes a pretty heavy turnaround, on account of it being made up entirely of old dudes. Benedict has plenty of time to ensconce his faction. According to Wiki, he's appointed 67 who are of the voting age. (80 or under), which is more than half.

I'm curious to see how many cardinals will be made in the next few weeks.

Good info on the appointments. Thanks. Now it's even more likely that he can control the election outcome. A nod here, a wink there, and his least favorites become clear.
 

Chris P

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Good info on the appointments. Thanks. Now it's even more likely that he can control the election outcome. A nod here, a wink there, and his least favorites become clear.

Hmmm.... I assume he will still be a cardinal, but since he's over 80 he can't vote. And being 400 years since a pope was alive during the election of the new pope, there's not really a precedent regarding what role he should take.

What nobody has suggested is maybe he was pushed out in a bloodless coup so someone new could be installed. What's that? Why are you laughing?
 

Calla Lily

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[inciendiary remark follows]

Why go to all the bother and expense of staging a coup? Why not just poison him like they did JP#1?


I was being groomed for the convent during the JP1/JP2 shakeup. Even in our little corner of the US we heard the rumors and got our hands on some of the medical/news reports.
 

Opty

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So, he's in the early stages of Alzheimer's? Just a guess based on his own comment about deteriorating mind.

Also, how can you retire from being conscripted by God to be his infallible representative on Earth?
 

Torgo

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Also, how can you retire from being conscripted by God to be his infallible representative on Earth?

Well, that was kind of my feeling. Although 'papal infallibility' isn't quite what it sounds like.
 

blacbird

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He was a dreadful choice in the first place, for all kinds of reasons, and owing simply to the matter of his age, was destined to be an interim short-term placeholder. That he used his position as a blockade to any level of even honest discussion and debate about the future of the Church in the world just made his tenure worse.

I am not a Roman Catholic, but the position of the Pope is one which affects a far wider world audience than just the adherents to Catholicism. We all share an interest in what happens next to this organization.

I'd like to be optimistic about a more progressive leader emerging as a successor, but I'm not. JPII and Ben both packed the College of Cardinals with like-minded men, and those will be the electors of the new pope. However, that person could hardly be less suited to the position than Cardinal Ratzinger was.

caw
 

Calla Lily

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Without getting into all the details, something the Pope says is only "infallible" when he chooses to (figuratively) make the declaration from the special and specific "seat of infallibility."

When he's not speaking from that place, he's "simply" the head of the RCC.

I won't get into my personal opinions of the process of electing a new Pope. :)
 

Unimportant

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That's not very fair.
My (vague) understanding (please correct me if I'm wrong) is that the current crop of Cardinals were pretty much all hand-picked by Benedict. And, while Benedict doesn't get an official vote when the next Pope is picked, he can strongly influence the Cardinals as to who he'd like to see as his successor. Given the pool of candidates and the influence B has, it seems very likely that the next pope will be very similar to B in terms of orthodoxy etc.