avoiding problematic stories

sunandshadow · Feb 18, 2013

akaria said:
You might like Sci-Fi romances. I've only read two in that subgenre so can't really recommend anything. The futuristic setting might allow authors to play with typical romance tropes without the problems.

There are at least three distinct types of sci-fi romances, and two of them have consent problems. One type is directly descended from sword and sorcery pulp with its distinct male bias, and the Gor novels that permanently linked sci-fi, bdsm, and erotic romance in the cultural history of sci-fi. The second type is directly descended from military fiction, where everything's supposed to be gritty and often psychodrama or "conquest" including rape come into play. The third type which is usually not problematic is the kind descended from new age fiction, of which Robin D. Owens is a key example.

MsLaylaCakes · Feb 18, 2013

akaria said:
I really enjoy Nalini Singh but both books I've read in her Psy-Changeling series have the hero constantly touching the heroine even though it makes her uncomfortable or she says no or she's afraid of him. It really turned me off from the series even though I eat up her Guild Hunter books like candy.

Hmm...yes, Sascha/Lucas and Faith/Vaughn do start off like that. Oddly enough, they're my two favorite books in the Psy/Changeling series. If you're a fan of Ms. Singh, the books where the couple are not Psy/Changeling (i.e. Changeling/Changeling, or Changeling/Human, Human/Psy) don't have that element. You might like Mercy and Brenna's stories--perhaps Brenna's especially since the trope is turned on its head and her Psy mate is trying not to get involved with her (and Judd is super dreamy). They're also really strong kick-ass heroines.

In general though, I like the Guild Hunter books much more than Psy/Changeling (even though it was the Psy/Changeling series that introduced me to the author). They also seem to be getting progressively better with each new book

MumblingSage · Feb 19, 2013

sunandshadow said:
I have this problem when reading romance novels too - "alphahole" love interests who range from just unappealing and irritating to "ought to be killed". They seem to crop up most often in historicals and urban fantasy IME, though they sometimes show up in science fiction and fantasy too. This is why I wish published novels were keyworded like fanfiction - with fanfiction it's pretty much always marked for this kind of objectionable content.

"Alphahole"

Oh praise the Muse, there is a word for that!

And it's gross gross gross. And I'm saying this as someone who understands the love for a strong male figure (I tend to pair him with another male figure) and who has a published story around the theme of dubious consent. As a select flavor, it's fantastic. But I hate how it seems to be the norm in so many stories.

As a writer, I post content descriptions on my website for each story, including any trigger warnings I think appropriate. When it comes to reading, I find writers who handle the material in a way I feel happy with and stick with them. It's difficult because I love costume drama, and historicals and fantasy stories (don't get me started on Beatrice Small, for all our sakes) get so much of this skin-crawling stuff.

Also good advice upthread about checking out the 2 & 3-star reviews on GoodReads. I know of several reviewers who are very conscientious about pointing out problematic or unpalatable aspects of the story.

gingerwoman · Mar 3, 2013

linkonrad said:
I've been slowly getting through a stack of romance novels I borrowed, in order to understand the genre a bit better.

The latest one I picked up left me feeling ill.

This was a book where the hero stalked the heroine, kidnapped her, forced himself on her, threatened violence, destroyed her possessions, and manipulated and belittled her.

I sat there thinking "Are you kidding me? Am I expected to find this romantic?" I was actually shaking with rage, and a few chapters in, I threw the book across the room. Then I had to go and watch some adorable cat videos to calm down.

I'm OK with abusive scenarios in fiction. But if it's being presented as romantic and desirable... NOPE. Can't deal with it.

In my experience, that type of behaviour IRL is the farthest thing from sexy. I read fiction to escape.

How do I avoid these types of stories? Because in this case, the front cover, blurb, prologue, and first chapter all seemed innocuous when I picked it up. The vast majority of online reviews were praising it.

Who published the book?

debblen4 · Mar 4, 2013

So I have a problem with my book I'm writing. I'm passed 100,000 words now. Its historical fiction and heavily researched - I've averaged 1-5 hours research most days during the past year! This means I have a fairly good understanding of the culture back in the 1880s. My story is based on the events that lead up to the changing of the age of consent - 13 years old raised to 16 yrs in England and 18 years in Ireland.

My main female character gets kidnapped and sold to the highest bidder in a brothel. Her purchaser, has at least one good character trait - he won't rape a woman. (At this stage moment there's not a lot else I like about him). He attempts to seduce her but she will not give in and later on, he is drugged during a 'party' and attacks her but doesn't succeed - she knocks him out. Long story short, several months/ weeks … not sure about the time periods, he ends up returning her to her family. However, she is upper class and her reputation is ruined therefore so is her family's name.

Fast forward several years the main male character, who is also upper class, has realised the seriousness of his actions and decides he needs to marry her as it is the only way to restore her standing in society. He is plagued with guilt for what he tried to do to her when she was his prisoner and will not consume the marriage until she initiates it. (Despite the fact that according to the English laws of the day, her body belonged to him and so she would have had no choice but to submit).
This part of the book focuses on him trying to win his wife's heart and trust. (I like him in this role - he's finally showing some integrity and is a much nicer man). She finds out, but not from him, that he's been heavily involved changing the legislation. Then they work together rehabilitating the young girls who have been horrifically abused as children, finding families for these children and young teens to live with or work in safe (non-predatory) homes and endeavoring to change the legislation to protect them from pedophiles.

Now this is where I have a major issue:

I started the book thinking this is a great ending but the more I find out about Stockholm syndrome the more I do not want it to happen. I will not permit my main female character to fall in love with the male character while kidnapped but the marriage is a different kettle of fish. According to the court records etc that I've read, in the 1880s the man would have been forced to marry her or her parents would have either disowned her or 'sold' her to a fortune hunter. I hate reading historical books where the author has taken great license with the traditions of the time and so I feel that I'm trapped into writing this ending.
So my questions are these:
How many of you have this issue too? And what suggestions do you have as to how I could resolve it? Do you have any suggestions as to how I can avoid the stockholm syndrome? I really like my characters at the end - she's a much stronger person and he's a man of honour. I would like a HEA but not a stockholm syndrome type of story.

MumblingSage · Mar 4, 2013

debblen4 said:
So I have a problem with my book I'm writing. I'm passed 100,000 words now. Its historical fiction and heavily researched - I've averaged 1-5 hours research most days during the past year! This means I have a fairly good understanding of the culture back in the 1880s. My story is based on the events that lead up to the changing of the age of consent - 13 years old raised to 16 yrs in England and 18 years in Ireland.

My main female character gets kidnapped and sold to the highest bidder in a brothel. Her purchaser, has at least one good character trait - he won't rape a woman. (At this stage moment there's not a lot else I like about him). He attempts to seduce her but she will not give in and later on, he is drugged during a 'party' and attacks her but doesn't succeed - she knocks him out. Long story short, several months/ weeks … not sure about the time periods, he ends up returning her to her family. However, she is upper class and her reputation is ruined therefore so is her family's name.

Fast forward several years the main male character, who is also upper class, has realised the seriousness of his actions and decides he needs to marry her as it is the only way to restore her standing in society. He is plagued with guilt for what he tried to do to her when she was his prisoner and will not consume the marriage until she initiates it. (Despite the fact that according to the English laws of the day, her body belonged to him and so she would have had no choice but to submit).
This part of the book focuses on him trying to win his wife's heart and trust. (I like him in this role - he's finally showing some integrity and is a much nicer man). She finds out, but not from him, that he's been heavily involved changing the legislation. Then they work together rehabilitating the young girls who have been horrifically abused as children, finding families for these children and young teens to live with or work in safe (non-predatory) homes and endeavoring to change the legislation to protect them from pedophiles.

Now this is where I have a major issue:

I started the book thinking this is a great ending but the more I find out about Stockholm syndrome the more I do not want it to happen. I will not permit my main female character to fall in love with the male character while kidnapped but the marriage is a different kettle of fish. According to the court records etc that I've read, in the 1880s the man would have been forced to marry her or her parents would have either disowned her or 'sold' her to a fortune hunter. I hate reading historical books where the author has taken great license with the traditions of the time and so I feel that I'm trapped into writing this ending.
So my questions are these:
How many of you have this issue too? And what suggestions do you have as to how I could resolve it? Do you have any suggestions as to how I can avoid the stockholm syndrome? I really like my characters at the end - she's a much stronger person and he's a man of honour. I would like a HEA but not a stockholm syndrome type of story.

IMO, Stockholm Syndrome would be a problem during the time she's purchased by him, less pressingly so after she's free and with her family. Maybe stress that she _does_ have options/an escape route, albiet one at great personal cost--maybe she'd rather have her honor besmirched than put up with a man she utterly hates (meaning, when she does wind up with him, she doesn't utterly hate him). Or perhaps as an alternative she has some bland gentleman friend who would be willing to marry her to save her relationship, but though she likes him well enough she just can't see a marriage with him, while the hero is for whatever reason more interesting and appealing.

On the other hand, people falling in love with each other within an arranged marriage is a common and popular romance trope that can be quite sweet. I especially like that they're able to work together rehabilitating young women. While they might not have full consent to the marriage, they can still have consent to how they interact with each other within it--they still have the freedom to fall in love, if that makes sense.

job · Mar 4, 2013

Couple of thoughts on this.

(1)

changing of the age of consent - 13 years old raised to 16 yrs in England and 18 years in Ireland.
My main female character gets kidnapped and sold to the highest bidder in a brothel.

Raising the age of consent was a very good thing. Is it related to what happens to your FMC? That is -- would your FMC have been protected by the change of law?

Was the FMC herself underage when kidnapped? I hope not.

(2) In the FMC's situation, that particular age-of-consent law wasn't necessary for legal action. Kidnap and rape of a well-born virgin -- whether she's 17 or 37 -- would be quite sufficient to get everybody responsible hanged

... including the MMC.
You have probably tidied up the loose ends as to why the Crown didn't prosecute him and why the FMC's father doesn't demand it. Why her brother didn't round up a gang of friends and horsewhip him.

(3)

Fast forward several years the main male character, who is also upper class, has realised the seriousness of his actions and decides he needs to marry her as it is the only way to restore her standing in society.

Here I wonder why the FMC's family didn't demand the MMC marry her, back in the day. Failing that, why they didn't, in several years, marry the FMC off to somebody else?

Could it be the FMC say, "I will not marry."

As it stands, she's suddenly willing to marry the MMC, (kidnapper, jailer, fumbling rapist, buyer of unwilling virgins.)
This after several years, when she and her family haven't found one appropriate ambitious young man of the lower classes who wants an entre into Society, one yeoman farmer making the jump to country gentleman, one curate who believes in forgiveness and wants a country living, one scholar at Oxford who will marry to have support while he goes on with his work.

But if you make her adamantly against marrying, there has to be some reason she changes her mind. It'll probably have to go back to the period of the kidnapping.

(4)

the more I find out about Stockholm syndrome the more I do not want it to happen. I will not permit my main female character to fall in love with the male character while kidnapped but the marriage is a different kettle of fish.

I don't see a problem with the FMC not falling in love with the man who holds her captive. Stockholm Syndrome is not particularly common.

You have infinite power in the story. You get to decide it doesn't happen and write it that way.
No one's going to expect it.

Nawlins · Mar 4, 2013

If she knocks him out, she's not dealing with StockSyn. My undertanding is that once they are free from their captors, they are able to be freed of the effects. After several years, I wouldn't expect her to be thinking well of him - after all, she's lost so much in terms of her standing and prospects, family support may be grudging, etc. I think it would be more likely that she'd blame him for her current struggles and knock him out again!

avoiding problematic stories

sunandshadow

Impractical Fantasy Animal

MsLaylaCakes

Playing the waiting game

MumblingSage

Inarticulate Herb

gingerwoman

debblen4

MumblingSage

Inarticulate Herb

job

In the end, it's just you and the manuscript

Nawlins