The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

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Ed Williams 3

Molly, I think that this thread...

...is getting a lot of attention, and that there are certain reps for a well known vanity POD that would like to derail it. I have gotten more than one email from authors who were considering PA and decided against it based on some things that they read here. And to me, that's what it's all about - PA is the ultimate bottom feeder in the literary business, and it is my wish that they go down the toilet just as quickly as is humanly possible.
 

DaveKuzminski

Re: Molly, I think that this thread...

Ed? They're that high on the food chain? ;)
 

James D Macdonald

Re: Off topic

HapiSofi has a good reputation, based on his obvious knowledge of the publishing industry and long history of accurate and insightful posts. His explanations are clear, easy to follow, and engagingly written.

ProandCon, please email me, in confidence, with your bonafides.

As always, those things that are told me in private will remain private.
 

LaVerneRoss

Re: Some things worth mentioning

Thanks Dave for confirming that for me. They can't delete this thread as they would like. I was thinking, I should send these emails to all the ones mentioned earlier, as evidence of what PA is now pulling. They get bolder with time.

I think if they sued anyone, authors would come out of the woodwork, with all their evidence and there are a lot of us who would stand, and speak. The attention would probably bring them down.

They did not mention they had any books they wanted me to buy. Just that they still had all rights to the book. Until I signed their papers. A lie of course.

This will just cause problems getting a publisher to take it now, even rewritten, edited and put together with its sequel. From what I am seeing on the net, this first book will haunt me for a long time. Even if my other two books should be successful, the stain will remain, even if only I can see it. I can't even use my own name to write under now. I am glad so many others have avoided PA, because of places like this and P&E.
 

Molly Brent

trolls

Ed, you know how I feel about PA. I now have a claim against them, with all the info from the fraud disvision of the FBI, among others. I am going to share it with Dave so he can add some others to it. I think it is important that we stick together.

I was thinking
the our con man seems to be a man who uses big words and speaks intelligently, then on another it sounds like
a fragile, little flower wanting somebody to do something about the bad bullies picking on the poor dear.

It could be a slight distraction, but nothing major.

Also, welcome Irene.

Molly
 

Molly Brent

Hapi

I'm with James on his opinion of Hapi. I like Hapi and
hopefully, nobody thought I was implying that Hapi was a bully when I was being flip.

Molly
 

James D Macdonald

Re: Oh, who would have suspected?

Some folks may have wondered what Dave and I were on about, a couple of pages back, since we were referring to things posted on another board.

Here's a link to the <a href="http://www.writers.net/forum/read/1/18470/18470" target="_new">thread on Writers.net</a>.
 

D Dawes

Re: What's so sad about all this is...

To date, PA still has not sent me a royalty check, and it appears they are actively marketing my book now that the contract has terminated. My sales are soaring on both barnes and noble and amazon.com in Canada. They fudged the digits on my first royalty statement, and I'm sure if I ever receive the second statement it will not reflect an accurate number of sales.
www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos...06-2361638
search.barnesandnoble.com...7769&itm=3

Here's a web link www.maloneyandmaloney.com...Fraud7.asp to a multi-facet law firm that handles consumer complaint issues on a contingency basis nationwide; but like the FTC,AG,FBI Fraud division, it will take multiple complaints to pique the interest of an attorney that is willing to handle a Class Action case on a contingency basis. Therefore, if you have reason to believe that PA has defrauded you by fudging the digits on your royalty statements, send those letters out today. Here's the email address: [email protected]
 

CaoPaux

Re: PA Misrepresents Itself

A point from that writers.net thread that merits repetition for the "PA is not a vanity publisher because you don't pay them up front" camp:

-----
...PA is an "author mill"

sfwa.org/beware/subsidypublishers.html

“A slightly different issue is the "author mill"--a company that publishes a very large number of authors in the expectation of selling a hundred books or so from each (as opposed to publishing a limited number of authors in hopes of selling thousands of books from each, as commercial publishers do). Author mills don't require authors to make any financial expenditures at all, hidden or otherwise. However, they do rely on their authors as their major source of income (through books purchased by the author for re-sale, or sold to "pocket" markets the author him/herself is responsible for identifying), and so can be defined as vanity publishers, despite the lack of upfront or other charges. Also, author mills tend to share a business model with vanity publishers: no editorial screening of submissions, no meaningful pre-publication editing, no meaningful post-publication marketing or distribution.”
-----
 

GigiSahi

Re: Some things worth mentioning/ A Rant from a PA author

I wish to begin by cordially greeting everyone who has ever posted to this thread. Over the course of three months, I have read every post. As stated in my subject line, I am a PA author. My upcoming novel, "Shame the Devil" is my debut.

I have taken all the warnings to heart--after the fact. Yet, I do not wish that I'd discovered them sooner. I look at life as a learning experience. When we stop learning, we stop living. I don't believe any dog is too old to learn new tricks. But enough with the philosophical crap.

When I completed my ms, over two years ago, I made it my duty to learn all I could about the publishing industry. I researched on the internet, at my local public library and purchased $200 worth of books about publishing; all of which I read from cover to cover--with highlighter in hand. I even looked into starting an independent small press, which is not a financially viable option for me at this time. With the firm belief that I had a good grasp on how the publishing industry worked, I paid a pretty penny to have my ms edited. Edited ms in hand, I made numerous copies and sent one off to have my copyright registered.

I then sent out 50 query letters to various literary agencies representing writers of my genre, which for my debut novel would fall into the Urban/Hip-Hop Literature category. Of those 50, I received 3 replies after waiting four months. All professional replies. All wishing me success in my writing career and all informing me that they are not presently taking on any new clients.

I was struck with genius. I decided to cut out the middle man (meaning literary agents) and contact publishing houses directly. I contacted 50, for some reason I like that number, of all the names we know and love. I waited four months. Replies: 0.

I now looked into POD's. What bothered me about them is, after paying a POD to publish your book, the company continues to reap a profit on every book sold while you wait around for them to pay you royalties on a book that you paid them to publish. WOW!

I now entered contests. If my mss were ever received, someone forgot to inform me; although I always included the requested SASE in order to be informed as such. But I take it from my cancelled checks, which covered the entry fees, that my mss were indeed received. Whether or not they were read....

I revisited contacting publishing houses directly; knowing there are more than 50. Via an on-line search of "publishers accepting un-agented submissions", after by-passing all POD's, along came Publish America. Not knowing of their notorious reputation, I clicked on their website. I was sold on their slogan: "We treat our authors the old-fashioned way--we pay them." I was also sold on not having to pay them to publish my book. According to my extensive readings and research, that was a mark of a legitimate publishing house.

I clicked on "acquisitions". A blank email screen popped up. In a short email, I told them a little about myself and my book then attached my ms. About a month later, I received the email that every PA author received upon being "accepted". You know, the one about giving us the chance we deserve. I downloaded and read the sample contract. Seven years did seem rather lengthy but, I was just days shy of my 33rd birthday. What's seven years when you're 33? I emailed PA and agreed to the terms of the contract. A week later, my contract arrived in the mail. I signed and returned it. A couple of weeks later, I filled out their emailed author's questionnaire (AQ) and re-attached my ms as requested. That was in April of this year.

As of today, I have not heard a single word nor received a single email about the status of my ms or which phase of production it's in. All I know is, and this is according to my contract, that my novel will be published within a year of signing the contract. Given the volume of PA authors and their still having a seven month window, it is very possible that they haven't even gotten around to my ms yet. This is what I tell myself to avoid taking a trip to Maryland. I live in NY and MD's only a 6-hour drive away. On their website, PA does invite their authors to visit their headquarters if they happen to be in their neck of the woods. I wonder how many PA authors have actually taken them up on their invite. Maybe I'm being picky but I think as a professional practice, publishers ought to communicate with their authors. Besides that little quirk of mine, in all fairness, I must say that I PERSONALLY have no PA horror stories to share. But, I suspect that will change. If it doesn't, given this thread, I'll be rather disappointed.

I look forward to having my first novel published. I've wanted to be a writer since I was 8. So, this is a dream come true for me. Everyone knows that dreams are symbolic. Just like the $1.00 advance PA sends its authors. I know the odds are greatly stacked against me. I know most will not even recognize me as a legitimate author once I tell them that PA published my book. I know my book will not sell many copies. Sure, I sent PA a list of 40 family members and friends. But I'm better off relying on the kindness of strangers for book sales as my family and friends all want free, autographed copies.

It's all been a wonderful learning experience, however. I've even added it to my memoirs. Maybe PA will give me another one of those deserved chances when it comes time to publish them. Maybe they'll read this and will actually communicate with me by way of an email canceling my contract. Maybe the publishing industry in its entirety will be reformed to include less scams and become more author-friendly. Come what may, I'm presently selecting another 50 publishers to shop my second novel to. Maybe I'll find one that's ethical. Maybe I'll find one that believes I'm a talented writer and won't hold who I published my first novel with against me. Maybe I'll find one that's fed up with all the red-tape, rip-offs and other grief that new authors face. Maybe I'll find a few private investors to back me and I'll start my independent small press. I couldn't do any further damage to the publishing industry if I tried. But that's another rant entirely.

~Gigi
 

JohannaJ7

Re: trolls?

Gigi, I can't believe the rotten luck you've had. I don't much care for contests where you have to pay to enter, myself. And maybe it's an American thing to copyright your ms yourself, but I was under the impression that publishers like to do that for their authors once the ms has been accepted?

Either way, sending out 50 queries and getting no replies seems strange as hell (how did you find out about these publishers? If you got them out of a book, chances are a lot of them aren't in business anymore or have moved their offices since the book was written.) Did these publishers even accept queries? Did you send your actual ms to any publishers (other than PA)?

Whatever you do with PA, please don't buy loads of your own books or you'll end up in deeper financial sh*t that you would by opening your own small press, I guarantee it.
 

SRHowen

Re: Molly, I think that this thread...

Did you include a SASE (self addressed stamped envelope)--

<shakes head>

Can't imagine sending out 50 and not hearing on any of them--did you send just a query letter? Or the complete ms?

Shawn
 

DaveKuzminski

Re: Some things worth mentioning/ A Rant from a PA author

Gigi, I've read a few books on publishing and being published. Those all advised against registering the copyright, so I'm surprised that you did that after purchasing and reading $200 worth of books on publishing. Regardless, I'd like to hear later how you are doing, so please post again.
 

Molly Brent

Gigi's post

I think you meant Gigi.

Gigi, e mail PA and ask them the status of your ms.
Send it to the attention of Sarah Becker. She is the supervisor of editing. It seems to be easier to get a quick response if you deal with a person instead of support......she will tell you who your editor is and you can communicate directly with your editor.

Check your "corrected" proofs........after they make the corrections, check them again and again until they are the way you want. If they give you a hard time, stand your ground. They do make mistakes when correcting the mistakes so keep checking them.

When you get your author's copies,
check to make certain that the right set was sent to the printer.

Do not plan any book signings until you have the books in your hand. They may not arrive in time. Even if they promise you they will arrive in time, don't believe it.

Many have gone on from PA to be very successful and you are very young.

There are a lot of very nice people here for support and you can ask questions about other publishers etc.......

Good luck and if I may be of service, please contact me I don't know much about publishing but I am an expert on problems with PA.

BTW, if I don't answer e mails, we just heard that the storm may be headed our way.

Molly
 

aka eraser

Re: Some things worth mentioning

Just based on your post Gigi, I'd buy your book...if it wasn't published by PA. I don't want to add any dollars to their coffers.

Maybe you'll fall between the cracks and they won't get back to your book within the year stated in your contract. That, however faint, possibility would keep me from contacting them to find out its status.

I feel for you though. Balanced against what you know now about PA is the desire to hold your "baby." It's a shame you didn't get a better ratio of responses from your other subs. I can't figure out why. 8% is abysmal.

But you are young and obviously literate. You've got lots more words in you that folks will want to read. I wish you the best.
 

XThe NavigatorX

agents

That's really odd, gigi. You've had some terrible luck. Are you sure you don't have a psychotic mailman?

I keep track of everything, and I just went back and looked at my own track record regarding agents. Over the years I have sent a total of 47 queries to agents, and I (eventually) heard back from 42 of them.

Publishers is about the same (short story market is waaaaay different though.) The shortest it ever took me to get a rejection is two minutes (via email). The longest was 17 months (Baen. Gotta love 'em. They read the entire manuscript though and gave me a very detailed rejection.)
 

vstrauss

Re: Gigi

Actually not so odd, I think. Gigi's genre (urban/hip hop) has a growing audience but it's still a pretty specialized market. There are some independent publishers that focus on this kind of fiction, and a few of the larger houses are also starting to buy books in this genre (for instance, Kensington's recently-launched Urban Books; I also think that Atria, an imprint of Simon & Schuster, does some urban lit), but there aren't a lot of them--certainly nowhere near 50. And one would need to do a bit of specialized digging--which publishing books wouldn't necessarily help with--to find out which ones.

Some good info is here: www.theblacklibrary.com/

- Victoria
 

aka eraser

Re: Gigi

What's odd I think Victoria is the lack of response at all. Refusals from an inappropriate market can be expected but her ratio of non-responses is exceedingly high, unless, as Shawn suggested, she didn't include a SASE or her email fritzed.
 

Kate Nepveu

Re: Gigi

Slush turnaround often takes much longer than four months; possibly query turnaround too, though I'm not sure.
 

DeePower

It's just

For educational purposes:

On the PA message board:

www.publishamerica.com/cg...e/5915.htm

--- snip
PA certainly must have thought your work was good enough or otherwise they would not have accepted it!!! Publishing is a big business, and if PA thought our books couldn't sell they wouldn't have accepted them. As it costs them money to print the books up and the process that goes into getting them ready for print.
-----

It's just not right. These people are going to be so disappointed to learn the truth. It's not the author's fault. PA set them up. PublishAmerica accepts just about anything, including a manuscript with the same 30 pages cut and pasted over and over again.

On another topic.

Remember when the Latin or Greek filler was used as a placeholder on several PA pages.

Well here is what is on the PA websites now. I've already sent hard copy to the Maryland District Attorney.

www.publishamerica.com/fi...publisher/
Most of the time when using a science fiction publisher, or young adult publisher, the author is not permitted to retain the copyrights over their own fiction.

www.publishamerica.com/ch...ublishers/
In addition, the majority of children's book publishers do not allow the author to retain the copyright of their book.

www.publishamerica.com/po...ublishers/
"Believe it or not, most poetry publishers do not allow the author to retain the copyrights over their own poetry."

www.publishamerica.com/ch...ublishers/
As an added benefit, as a Christian book publisher we allow our authors to retain the copyrights over their work.

www.publishamerica.com/ho...published/
In addition, we pride ourselves in allowing our published authors to retain their copyright
privileges.


Dee
Co-author of "The Making of a Bestseller," Dearborn Trade,
March 2005
www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com
 

HapiSofi

Re: Some things worth mentioning/ A Rant from a PA author

"Urban/Hip-Hop" isn't really a genre. It's a descriptive marketing term. At most mainstream publishers, a book like that would be classed as 00/Fiction. You need an agent who knows what he or she is doing.

But stay away from PA. Seriously. They aren't out to do you any good, which you might be able to cope with; but they aren't out to publish and sell books, either, and there's no coping with that.
 

Risseybug

Re: PA Misrepresents Itself

OMG! :jaw How could they even put that on the site, when we all KNOW it's not true!!!!
Boy, they've got some big brass ones. All it takes to dispel this falsehood is to walk into a bookstore and pick up any book. The copyright notice almost ALWAYS has the authors name on it, not the publisher's.

People out there, don't fall for the lies. PA is out to do nobody any good.

I need an emoticon that shakes its head in disbelief. I guess I'll settle for :head :ssh
 
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