Scientists to investigate the validity of out-of-body experiences

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Here they are exploring the difference between the "mind" and the "brain" and are straddling the line into the somewhat unscientific realm of the "spirit." But for now they are using the more neutral word "consciousness."

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1842627,00.html

What Happens When We Die?

Thursday, Sep. 18, 2008 -- By M.J. Stephey

A fellow at New York City's Weill Cornell Medical Center, Dr. Sam Parnia is one of the world's leading experts on the scientific study of death. Last week Parnia and his colleagues at the Human Consciousness Project announced their first major undertaking: a 3-year exploration of the biology behind "out-of-body" experiences. The study, known as AWARE (AWAreness during REsuscitation), involves the collaboration of 25 major medical centers through Europe, Canada and the U.S. and will examine some 1,500 survivors of cardiac arrest. TIME spoke with Parnia about the project's origins, its skeptics and the difference between the mind and the brain.


What sort of methods will this project use to try and verify people's claims of "near-death" experience?

When your heart stops beating, there is no blood getting to your brain. And so what happens is that within about 10 sec., brain activity ceases —as you would imagine. Yet paradoxically, 10% or 20% of people who are then brought back to life from that period, which may be a few minutes or over an hour, will report having consciousness. So the key thing here is, Are these real, or is it some sort of illusion? So the only way to tell is to have pictures only visible from the ceiling and nowhere else, because they claim they can see everything from the ceiling. So if we then get a series of 200 or 300 people who all were clinically dead, and yet they're able to come back and tell us what we were doing and were able see those pictures, that confirms consciousness really was continuing even though the brain wasn't functioning.

How does this project relate to society's perception of death?

People commonly perceive death as being a moment — you're either dead or you're alive. And that's a social definition we have. But the clinical definition we use is when the heart stops beating, the lungs stop working, and as a consequence the brain itself stops working. When doctors shine a light into someone's pupil, it's to demonstrate that there is no reflex present. The eye reflex is mediated by the brain stem, and that's the area that keeps us alive; if that doesn't work, then that means that the brain itself isn't working. At that point, I'll call a nurse into the room so I can certify that this patient is dead. Fifty years ago, people couldn't survive after that.
 

Cranky

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I just read this article this morning. Reminded me of the book I JUST read, What Dreams May Come. Wonderful book.

Is Someone trying to tell me something?! :D

That said, this article also reminded me forcibly of this story, too. :eek: The thing I take away from both of those stories is that death is much more of a process than an event, as previously assumed, and therefore a lot more of a gray area when it comes to declaring people dead.

Freaky. But also kinda cool.
 

Angelinity

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It's about time scientists stopped scoffing. Though I have to wonder how open-minded the whole process can be -- but it's a step forward. Worth keeping an eye on this study.
 

donroc

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I experience "out of body" nearly everyday when I am among people or watching TV and suddenly leave this world and travel to the one I am writing about.

At that point I am merely a hologram to others.
 

kuwisdelu

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at that which may appear not to make sense according to current accepted scientific knowledge and/or logic.

Good scientists don't scoff at it; they simply try to explain it scientifically and scoff at those who dismiss the most reasonable explanations.
 

aruna

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Interesting. I know three people who have had out of body experiences; all say that it changed their lives aroubd completely.
The concept of mind not being synonymous with brain is nothing new for me. Even as a child of eight I was wondering about and exploring such matters, and came to my own conclusions long ago.
 

Jcomp

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Death is death. There is something going on while the brain synapses are all shutting down, but it isn't an out-of-body experience. It's part of death.

What if the out-of-body experience is a part of death...?
 

Angelinity

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Good scientists don't scoff at it; they simply try to explain it scientifically and scoff at those who dismiss the most reasonable explanations.

'most reasonable' is not the same as 'the one and only'. anyone who scoffs, be it a good or bad scientist, is traveling a narrow road with blinders on.
 

veinglory

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at that which may appear not to make sense according to current accepted scientific knowledge and/or logic.

there are scientist that scoff and those that don't, non- scientists that scoff and those that don't -- fwiw parapsychologists are scientists too
 

Sarpedon

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Angelinity said:
'most reasonable' is not the same as 'the one and only'. anyone who scoffs, be it a good or bad scientist, is traveling a narrow road with blinders on.

Yeah! Why should we settle for the 'most reasonable' explaination, when there are so many less reasonable ones to choose from?
 

veinglory

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And we know very little about death. Thus this study. Till now it was all conjecture.

studies identical to this have been conducted several times over the past century -- I would not anticipate this one to find anything different or more conclusive
 

Jcomp

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Yeah! Why should we settle for the 'most reasonable' explaination, when there are so many less reasonable ones to choose from?

Well... until one explanation is in fact proven, why should you?

*Note that the above comment isn't necessarily regarding this specific topic, but just a general remark...
 

Angelinity

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not to butt heads, but, an explanation is considered reasonable when it complies with science/society expectations of what is reasonable at the time. the World being 'flat', comes to mind.

without allowing oneself to think and venture outside the box (as tired as this cliche may sound), nothing new can ever be discovered.
 

Sarpedon

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Quite right Jcomp. But one shouldn't be against the most reasonable explanation either, just because it contradicts one's preferred explanation.
 

Jcomp

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Quite right Jcomp. But one shouldn't be against the most reasonable explanation either, just because it contradicts one's preferred explanation.

Word up...