Purgatory's Pit of Doom

I'll settle for crumbs at this point. My book earnings have produced grains, as in specks, atoms, quarks and such. I've made more in 14 months writing content that I have for all my books, radio scripts and shorts in the past 23 years. Twice the amount. But we all hold out hope, don't we?

Tri

I hear you, Tri. Nonfiction writing is valued much higher -- as if fiction was just about making stuff up.

Well, optimistic me, I think the future of publishing will be more democratic. I think e-books, which are less expensive to produce, will allow more people to publish. It used to be that the same 100 books were everywhere except bookstores: Target, Walmart, the grocery stories. I love bookstores but a lot of people don't have have that leisure. Buying books with a click will make more books accesible to more people. I believe in 10 years anyone who wants to be published will be.

I also think there will always be bestsellers and people who make a lot of money while others don't. But I don't think it will be the arbitrary decision of a few people in offices writing checks. I think the market will decide. If readers have access to your book but don't buy it, it's a different complaint, I think.

(Bleeding hearts also tend to be idealistic and optimistic.)

My face is no longer paralyzed, but I should be allowed to stay here despite my optimism because where else can I rail against the current state of the industry (which isn't so good but I think will improve)?

Psst, Teri. We can't see your face! We judge you for the content of your character. Wait, it sounded good when MLK said it, but how 'bout we don't judge at all?

One example of self-publishing success. She's doing extremely well now, but with a list of several books, I easily believe it, since I know what I'm doing with only a couple. Like me, she started out with no promo, just books.

Interesting, KT. Here's a post I came across about a MG self-published author. I don't think the market is quite as booming, but this is a perspective.

http://editedtowithinaninchofmylife.blogspot.com/2011/12/friday-feature-journeys-toward.html

My sense is that (at least right now, things are changing) self-publishing works best for genre fiction, the sort of books for which there is always demand.

Middle grade and children, not so much -- yet. But this will change when there are $25 ereaders and most school textbooks are in ereader form.

Any doubt that children will take to ebooks? I read a story where a dad had been reading stories to his 2 year old on his ipad. Later the 2 year old handed his father back a hardcover book because it was "broken." When he touched the images, they didn't move.

Some books sell 2 copies a month. Period. But if 2 people each month read your book, and one writes you a letter telling you that your book changed her life, shouldn't that mean something, too?

Not all books will sell lots of copies. And not all writers will get rich or even be able to support themselves. But they're still books and therefore beautiful, wonderful, amazing things.

When David Hume published "The Treatise of Human Nature," it was entirely ignored, I believe for many years. In his words, "The book fell stillborn from the press." Now it's considered one of the most important philosophical works ever written. People write for lots of reasons. (Teri, yammering about the art and commerce thing again)

Interesting article from Publishers Weekly about the changing role of publishers' sales reps, from layoffs to increasing emphasis on telesales to bookstores and online campaigns
http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/...ting/article/49734-whither-the-sales-rep.html

I wonder if this will make smaller and independent publishers more competitive, since the publishers' on-the-ground sales forces are something they don't have. Or the publishers will just take over epublishing, the way big offline brands took over the internet from the startups 10 or 12 years ago.

Thanks for those posts! They are very, very interesting. Definitely food for thought...

Looking forward to reading that, Kellion.

From my cursory examination of self-pub, what works best is, as Teri said, genre fiction. I think K. Taylor has mentioned this, but what seems essential is to have a lot of titles up at once. Most of the success stories have been from traditionally published authors with a substantial backlist whose rights have reverted to them. Otherwise, you have to be able to write fast!

I think smaller publishers are becoming very competitive. I'd cite my own, which I think you could characterized as "medium-sized." They are getting books routinely reviewed in the NYT and their latest, The B0y in the Suitc@se, seems to be a breakout hit. I would advise all of you to look in that direction. The money on the backend can more than make up for the bigger advance.

Hope this isn't too blindingly sunny for the Pit!

To get off the ground, yes it does help to have more than one story to put up in a short time, but with e-books always available, you can also go at your own pace - it'll just take longer to start making much money.

They're making pre-loaded e-reader toys for kids right now, so I think it's only a matter of time. F1sher-Price already makes a digital camera that little kids can drop, so I can see kids books on an e-reader they can use within 5 years tops.

Genre's moving, and also non-fic. Stuff is changing fast.

Stupid Colby is stupid. /end rant

Colby IS NOT stupid. Although if Dragonfly says that again, I will have my doubts about HER

An interesting thought about kids and e-readers: Kid readers tend to be voracious but read an author over a short period. Over the course of a year or two, a kid might read 5 or 20 books by the same author or in a series. It does take time to build inventory, and kids like it as much as other genre readers do. But in most circumstances, kids can't really wait six years for a series to play out because they've moved on. They want it all right away or not at all.

Still, I think that the best strategy for kidlit authors (and most others) will be a hybrid commercial print and e-publishing model so that some of the books at least have a stamp of approval from the publishing gods so that parents let their kids buy them.

kellion92 said:

Colby IS NOT stupid. Although if Dragonfly says that again, I will have my doubts about HER

An interesting thought about kids and e-readers: Kid readers tend to be voracious but read an author over a short period. Over the course of a year or two, a kid might read 5 or 20 books by the same author or in a series. It does take time to build inventory, and kids like it as much as other genre readers do. But in most circumstances, kids can't really wait six years for a series to play out because they've moved on. They want it all right away or not at all.

Still, I think that the best strategy for kidlit authors (and most others) will be a hybrid commercial print and e-publishing model so that some of the books at least have a stamp of approval from the publishing gods so that parents let their kids buy them.

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You're absolutely right. My son who is 9, is veeery picky about the books he reads. They need pictures, and they need to have a twisted sense of humor. Once he finds a book he likes, he needs to read them all right away: W31rd Sch00l S3ri3s, W1mpy K1d books, C@pt@1n Und3rp@nts...

Popping in to say, if you're friends with me on FB, check out the pic I posted. (More to come!) So happy!!!!!

Adorable! So happy for you-- better than a laptop.

I not on FB.

Other Lisa said:

. . .seems essential is to have a lot of titles up at once. Most of the success stories have been from traditionally published authors with a substantial backlist whose rights have reverted to them. Otherwise, you have to be able to write fast!

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K. Taylor said:

To get off the ground, yes it does help to have more than one story to put up in a short time, but with e-books always available, you can also go at your own pace - it'll just take longer to start making much money.


Genre's moving, and also non-fic. Stuff is changing fast.

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My 2.5 cents worth.

(Why should I stop giving my opinion now?)

Seems to me there's more than one way to look at the self-publishing opportunities. One way is to think about how to make a lot of money, in which case lots of stuff in genre and writing fast is the way to think.

Nothing wrong with money as a goal (it's one of mine)

But another way to see it is another avenue for building a career as a writer. If you think, "I'm in this for the long haul. I'm going to be writing and publishing 10, 20, and 30 years from now (I still plan to be writing in 30 years) then it's not about writing fast or about getting lots of stuff up. It's about taking care and learning the craft and seeing what you can do and how you can develop as a writer. Self publishing means no blocks and gatekeepers so you can focus on your own voice and what you want to do.

Cricket, I'm off to facebook!

I would love to hear people's opinion on how certain writers write so fast. (I am not one of them.)

Is it a once you've written a few books in a row, you get faster?

A do not stop until you reach x amt of words?

You have to be that type of person in the first place?

You're just a freak of nature?

How. is. it. done????? (And can it be learned?)

Same way you get to Carnegie Hall, Catwoman....practice, practice, practice.

<--- Had his viewpoint on how to get there

Catwoman said:

I would love to hear people's opinion on how certain writers write so fast. (I am not one of them.)

Is it a once you've written a few books in a row, you get faster?

A do not stop until you reach x amt of words?

You have to be that type of person in the first place?

You're just a freak of nature?

How. is. it. done????? (And can it be learned?)

Click to expand...

I'm with you. I don't understand it. There are so many layers to a story, unless you're a genius, how does one come up with a complete story in so little time? I average close to a year/ms. Everyone's different, I guess. I'm a slow writer and doubt this will change until I get published, which doesn't appear to be in my future anyway....

Teriann said:

But another way to see it is another avenue for building a career as a writer. If you think, "I'm in this for the long haul. I'm going to be writing and publishing 10, 20, and 30 years from now (I still plan to be writing in 30 years) then it's not about writing fast or about getting lots of stuff up. It's about taking care and learning the craft and seeing what you can do and how you can develop as a writer. Self publishing means no blocks and gatekeepers so you can focus on your own voice and what you want to do.

Click to expand...

Oh, this absolutely.

Catwoman, I think part of it is practice and part of it is being that person. Obviously, you need to be consistent about having your butt in the chair. And then focus.

Writers I know that are doing a lot have a lot of ideas, and then they're either good at following an outline or good at keeping focus as they pants it. And they're dedicated to putting fingers to keyboard 5/6/7 days a week. Some, as full-time writers. Then, if they type fast on top of that, it's even more helpful.

But as far as completing a draft in a short time, say, those who do 80K during NaNo, they're both putting in the time and not having the ideas stop - either from the guide of an outline or a pantser with a great muse. They also do not let the inner editor get in the way and slow them down.

I know I'd get a lot more done if I was left alone during normal-person hours. At 34 and not optimal health, it's hard for me to write all night all the time anymore. Once I'm tired, it's hard to concentrate.

I'm a fast rewriter - once I have a guide to work from, I'll get a lot done in a month. Drafts....since I'm a pantser, it entirely depends on my "muse", how inspired I am. I wish I didn't need to feel an urge to create a book, but I do, or it's torture, because I'm not a natural writer. I couldn't do fiction at all until my senior year of high school, and that was really short stuff. Complete blank if I had to put a story on a page. I only got the writing bug from fanfic.

Now, for certain genres, being prolific doesn't mean writing a lot of novels - it just means a lot of stories. Many romance writers, for example, have a career of novella fiction, which is 20K-45K.

K. Taylor said:

Oh, this absolutely.

Catwoman, I think part of it is practice and part of it is being that person. Obviously, you need to be consistent about having your butt in the chair. And then focus.

Writers I know that are doing a lot have a lot of ideas, and then they're either good at following an outline or good at keeping focus as they pants it. And they're dedicated to putting fingers to keyboard 5/6/7 days a week. Some, as full-time writers. Then, if they type fast on top of that, it's even more helpful.

But as far as completing a draft in a short time, say, those who do 80K during NaNo, they're both putting in the time and not having the ideas stop - either from the guide of an outline or a pantser with a great muse. They also do not let the inner editor get in the way and slow them down.

I know I'd get a lot more done if I was left alone during normal-person hours. At 34 and not optimal health, it's hard for me to write all night all the time anymore. Once I'm tired, it's hard to concentrate.

I'm a fast rewriter - once I have a guide to work from, I'll get a lot done in a month. Drafts....since I'm a pantser, it entirely depends on my "muse", how inspired I am. I wish I didn't need to feel an urge to create a book, but I do, or it's torture, because I'm not a natural writer. I couldn't do fiction at all until my senior year of high school, and that was really short stuff. Complete blank if I had to put a story on a page. I only got the writing bug from fanfic.

Now, for certain genres, being prolific doesn't mean writing a lot of novels - it just means a lot of stories. Many romance writers, for example, have a career of novella fiction, which is 20K-45K.

Click to expand...

the good thing about indie/ebook publishing is that now you can do shorter pieces and throw them up on amazon. I like writing short stories, but I never really had a way to get them out there. Now I have a short story series I'm writing that can finally have a home!

Which fics were you fanning, if I may ask ? I was a total anime fic-er. The bones for my first novel came from a fanfic I wrote.

I wrote for BTVS and Angel. Still finishing some WIPs when I have time.

Don't worry about fast. I write fast. But War and Peace did not get written fast. And I agree, fast writers have been practicing. A lot.

This isn't the pit. This is the thread of creative free thinkers.

What's clear about self-publishing is that it opens up venues for creativity. I'll give an example from what I've put up myself under my real name.

Now, I wasn't going to talk about this because I WANT NO SALES FROM THIS GROUP. Seriously. If anyone sees this and wants to read either of what I'm going to describe, email me and I'll send you a free copy. I am not interested in getting an extra sale. And I have a strict rule against self-promoting self-published stuff.

All right. Creativity.

Rivka is out of print and the rights reverted to me. We put it up up ourselves. No brainer. I keep 70% of the royalties and when my next book comes out, Rivka may get some more exposure.

So hubby got this idea, actually, from reading some stuff Konrath wrote: I have bunches of publications in bunches of magazines. Hubby thought, "WHo might buy Rivka?" And he thought, "Nice Jewish grandmothers looking for books for their grandchildren."

So he selected out of my publications a selection of 6 short essays and short stories. They're not all Jewish, but the lead title "Buchenwald from the Train" (a travel essay, actually) from Jewish Currents is the lead title.

Hubby self-published this short collection. At the end, he put in a short description for Rivka and a sample chapter.

I liked the idea because 6 of my articles and stories get a new life.

No publisher would ever pick up a collection like that -- unless the writer was a nobel prize winner. Any sales at all are more then they would have gotten sitting there in my filing cabinet.

(Hubby did the formatting, I did the cover, editing unnecessary because all material was previously published. Total cost: $20 because we wanted to buy the custom ISBN numbers so that we could publish it under an imprint.)

(I did the cover myself, Leigh. You might want to look at give me a grade. The easiest way to see it is to click on my website)