The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

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bikrpreacher

Re: Great Article

By the number of posts that are supposed to be there, I knew there was one I missed, they are quick sometimes aren't they? Maybe you won't be banned, who knows, PA is very random it seems.
 

DaveKuzminski

Re: RE: Great Article

Well, we should also expect Steve and Kevin to be joining us soon. They're too open-minded to last long at PA.
 

FM St George

Re: can I beat Dave with this one...

and the panic starts... HB trying to claim he was misquoted and trying to squash the discussions about those PA authors who are still remembered...
 

vstrauss

AP Article

>>I'm disappointed with the AP article. I think it went too far trying to be "unbiased."<<

I agree. I thought it was disjointed, and also that it didn't do nearly as good a job as the Washington Post article of putting PA's business practices in context of real publishing.

- Victoria
 

StephanieCordray

RE: can I beat Dave with this one...

Since one is completely gone as in page not found you probably beat a lot of people... I know, I said I wasn't going back there but had to look this one time...
 

Risseybug

Re: Kate, some of the PA people...

The second link is gone already. Anybody know what it said?
I really feel for those souls that are so brainwashed they don't even know the truth when it's put in front of them.

Now, some people over there really understand what it is that PA has done. Some just wanted it in print, and that's ok, I suppose, if they feel that their writing was as good as it was gonna get and they still wanted to see it in print.

BUT I did still see somewhere that some still live under the delusion that their ms. should be near perfect when submitted, that regular houses expect it. :(

There really should be a website with all of this spelled out. Like Traditional Publishing - a day in the life of a book or something. One page outlining a real publishers procedures, so that these people can see what they're getting is anything but. Quotes from big and small presses. Elitist club, my a**. There are lots of small presses out there, publishing isn't limited to big NY houses. The only thing elitist about them is that they only publish GOOD, MARKETABLE MATERIAL. When is that gonna sink in?

The other thing that is disturbing is the way these people really believe that PA is going to turn the publishing world on its ear. So sad.

Purchasing books is an impulse buy, most of the time, I think. Unless you are looking for something recommeded to you by another reader, most people come to the bookstore and pick one up, pick through the shelves for something interesting. Can't buy whats not there. And if I see something to read, I wanna read it right then, not wait weeks for it.

And I don't see people giving up going to B&N, getting a cuppa joe and sitting down with a book that they just bought. Readers are creatures of habit if nothing else.
Sigh. These articles may not sway the deeply entrenched, but maybe they'll stop others from stepping into the quicksand.
 

Gravity

To Ann

Just wanted to publicly thank you for your efforts. I too got my letters off today. Fingers crossed....

John
 

bikrpreacher

about fame and fortune...

There is a lot of talk on the publishamerica message board that the people who are not happy with publishamerica are ones who didn't get the quick fame and fortune that they thought they would get.
I would like to say to you PA people that are reading this, (and I have a lot of email today telling me that a lot of them are reading this), a lot of what is being written is sour grapes, and I understand, but in that what about this; a lot of people here reporting on PA are not even PA authors. They are just people who look into things and are down right mad about the people, good people who are being scammed with publishamerica.
The one's who are outspoken about publishamerica that have been published with them have good reason to be speaking out, it's because they have been treated bad, cheated out of royalties, (I believe that is getting ready to happen to me also, if you want to know my idea of how they will do this, email me at [email protected]),
they asked to be let out of the contract and have been told no. The ones who come out and tell the truth are the ones who are getting books published with other publishers, real ones, not POD.
I was welcomed here, no questions asked. Everyone has been nothing but nice to me here, they do read the PA boards, so they have to have seen my comments. It's OK though, I'm welcome, none of my posts have been deleted, even though I deleted one that I shouldn't have posted.
These people are here because they understand that something wrong is being done to good, honest, decent people,and they aren't the kind of people who say, "oh well, too bad for them." They are the kind of people who, when they see you are about to be bitten by a snake, they tell you!
Yes, I was banned from the PA public and private boards, but that was AFTER I came over here, not before. I don't have to be here either. I can preach and sell my books just the same as every other preacher who is publishing their own books, and my books would sell just the same as theirs would. But I have been on the boards long enough to get to know so many of you, your honest hopes and dreams, and I get sick and tired of seeing PA play on those hopes and dreams. I got weary of trying to be encouraging to you knowing that you were going to go out there, and bookstores would turn you away.
Anyone thinking of going with publishamerica, their reputation is such that you won't get anywhere with this company, unless you just want a cook book for your church members, or memories for your family. Unless a box of books under your bed would mean the world to you, don't go with them.
It's heartbreaking to see these good people over on the board consoling one another that everything will be just fine, because it won't be. It will never be alright. Every time you are turned down by a bookstore, you will remember what you read here, each time it will get harder and harder until finally, all you do is talk on the message board and dream that " tomorrow" things will change.
Truth is always best, even when it's hard, which I know this is.
I don't think there are any big name publishers who are afraid of publishamerica, they see them for who they are, in fact, I think a poster here works for one, and they have been very helpful in giving information.
Please think about all of this and weigh you comments on the PA board carefully before posting, you sound silly defending what you know to be a lie, (anyone who's been there for a year knows that the paper was telling the truth).
Sorry for the long post...there is so much more I could say. Knowing what I know now from reading this site, getting to know these people, and digging for information for myself, I wish I could physically get to you all and drag you out of there.
Chris Bartholomew
 

XThe NavigatorX

Re: The AP article.

I missed all the posts that were deleted. Anyone care to paraphrase?

So, what else is coming out in the near future? There's a Frederick local article I know about. Anything else?
 

triceretops

Re: about fame and fortune...

Something I don't think has been addressed here regarding PA:

Has PublishAmerica ever attended the ABA show? Have any of you ever seen them there, with a booth, fliers and catalogs? If so, did PA authors attend and set up signings?
Can PA authors be awarded the "author's badge" at this event? If not, why?

I hope this hasn't been addressed further back.

Thanks,

Tri
 

XThe NavigatorX

Re: Washington Post article is available online

btw, HB claiming he didn't even say that is very serious business. Newspapers, especially big ones like the Post, are extremely paranoid about that nowadays. If he goes around making a big stink about being misquoted (and assuming he wasn't) they will sue him, plain and simple. They're not shy about that sort of thing.
 

NancyMehl

Another lawsuit...

Maybe someone should send H.B.'s comment about not using the phrase "cigarette money" to Hillel.

H.B needs to go up against the AP. Now THAT would be entertaining! :lol

Nancy Mehl
www.nancymehlbooks.com
 

XThe NavigatorX

Re: My Letter to PA Authors Has Gone Out

I know it's obvious for everyone here, but there are plenty of new readers to this thread, and I want to point this out--

In this thread we have from PA:
infocenter
Administrator
11/02/2004
15:14:29

RE: Barnes and Noble decision


Message:
Danielle,

Contrary to what you may have been told by a local Barnes and Noble bookstore manager, they have no such policy at all, and they do not categorize PublishAmerica as anything other than what we are. Not only does Barnes and Noble have no policy against stocking print on demand books, Barnes and Noble actively enbraces the entire concept of Print On Demand.

<snip>

A Vice President at Barnes and Noble wrote us a letter, saying, "We very much believe in print-on-demand (POD) technology as a cost-effective tool available for publishers to extend the range of their title offerings to Barnes & Noble... We believe that POD represents an opportunity to increase the range of titles we offer... We will continue to stock every title that you publish, which enables us to rapidly replenish our stores..."

Let's compare and contrast to what the CEO of Barnes and Noble says in tomorrow's Post article:

"Self-publishers should be up front with their writers about that," says Riggio of Barnes & Noble, which discourages managers from stocking any non-returnable merchandise. "They need to tell them they are not likely to be in bookstores."

I'm surprised no one has brought this up yet.
 

DeePower

Great AP article

Very well done.

Hillel starts with the fact that Clopper has written two books he couldn't get published and joins up with one of his web marketing clients, Meiners, to start a book publishing business.

The article begins with the material on the Publish America website: "You will have the very important distinction of having your next book ACCEPTED BY A TRADITIONAL PUBLISHING COMPANY." Applicants are assured that manuscripts are carefully reviewed and edited, that books are available in stores and, best of all, that authors do not have to pay to be published.

Hillel then shows by example how each one of those statements are false.

The PA review process is faulty, there are only spell and grammar checks, no real editing, PA books are not stocked in bookstores, and that by default the authors do have to pay to be published.

The article demonstrates very clearly that PA is considered by the industry to be a publish on demand company. PA authors are not considered 'published' and therefore can't qualify for membership in many author associations.

Hillel let Clopper hang himself. Clopper was forced to admit that PA doesn't review manuscripts for acceptance very closely, that PA books are not in bookstores, and that the editing is basically a grammar and spell check. Clopper contradicted the PA website.

The article also demonstrates that PublishAmerica authors have minimal sales.

If you do the math you can see that with 4800 books released in 2004 and company revenues of between $4 to $6 million, that each of those PA titles generated $1000 of revenue for PA. At that level the average number of copies sold for each title is about 100 (average retail price of a PA book is $20.00 sold at a 50% discount).

After showing that PA hasn't had any impact on the publishing industry, Hillel ends the article with a ridiculous statement from Clopper that "such comments reflect the attitudes of an endangered establishment."

And the closing paragraph was brilliant.

A well researched and well written article.


Dee Power
The Making of a Bestseller, Dearborn Trade, April 2005
www.BrianHillAnddeePower.com
 

StephanieCordray

re: B&N

doesn't surprise me at all... even if any has thought about that thread which is a 1000 threads ago, they won't bring it up for fear of being banned like so many others have before them.
 

literary lola

Re: Another lawsuit...

"Maybe someone should send H.B.'s comment about not using the phrase "cigarette money" to Hillel."

Consider it done.
 

XThe NavigatorX

Re: RE: The AP Article

I agree with you completely, Dee. However I think all those points were made too subtle for those who need the truth smacked upside their heads.
 

bikrpreacher

Re: RE:The web chat for the Washington Post article

www.publishamerica.com/cg...e/7401.htm
If they say HB, I will CROAK!:rollin

MESSAGE:
I know there are those who are chomping at the bit to go to the Post chat and tell them a thing of two, but I think it might be wise to choose one or two people to represent the regulars on this board. Let's arm them with facts, such as a list of well written and well edited books, specific points in the contract or on the website and ... specific examples of the kinds of things the agitators do to us, such as bad reviews, etc.

What say you?
 

NancyMehl

AP Article

I also thought the AP article was quite effective. I mean, what else could the reporter do? He basically proved that PA couldn't possibly edit all their books - and that the books are NOT getting into bookstores. He even showed that PA's best-selling author did very poorly compared to the "real" traditional publishers. Quoting reps from different writers' organizations saying that they do not accept writers publishing with PA, in my opinion, nailed the door shut. And H.B.'s silly comment about barely making enough to pay for his cigarettes....well, would any serious writer actually consider PA after reading that?

Good point about the differing Barnes and Noble quotes. That really is an important point.

Maybe it's just me, but I didn't see anything positive about PA in the article. Larry Cloppers (sp?) looked like a big liar - and H.B. looked ridiculous. PA is obviously for anyone who can't get published anywhere else. Perhaps that should be their new motto.

Nancy Mehl
www.nancymehlbooks.com
 

StephanieCordray

lawsuits and HB

HB takes a lot of license with what he does. On another group I've already wondered whether his book "The Joe Schmoe Show" is trademark infringement because of the title... Might be something the Fox network would be interested in considering their show of the same name?
 

Ed Williams 3

Something else for PA authors who...

...are reading this to consider, especially those of you who have sold a good many of your first books to family and friends - it gets much more difficult with the second book. The novelty is gone, and you'll find that you have to sell books to strangers in order to keep your literary career alive. And how do you accomplish that? Why, you have to have books in bookstores, it's the only way. Will PA be able to do that for you? No. Will they ever want to do that for you? No. They are making too much money off things the way they are.

Bottom line, PA has suffered some major embarassment this weekend. More is coming. Think about it, do you want to be signing books at Holiday Inns and Jiffy Lubes, or do you want to take a shot at something that you can be proud of? You're being led around by two men who couldn't get traditionally published, one whose literary career consists of signing with a fee based literary agent and then PA, and a woman whose literary skills are questionable. They loathe traditional publishers for obvious reasons, and are making money off your backs on account of it. These people are scum, and you can do better. Much better.

Come over and join us, we have much more fun. And you can agree or disagree with us, but I promise you that we will never tell you, "Don't take that tone with us...."

P.S. Lola, you are my kinda person, keep postin.'
 

CaoPaux

Articles

I've got a love/hate relationship with mass media. But I'm lovin' it right now! :D
 

The Real Joe Shmoe

On the air with the Real Joe Shmoe....

Hey, it's really great to be here! I've been lurking for a long while here there and everywhere- following the "anti PA-ers" vs the "PA-ers" thing. I don't side with either other than to say I'm not going to do business with PA, ever. If they are guilty of wrongdoing beyond moral wrongdoing, I feel they will be delt with by the proper authorities, call me an idealist....with faith in the system.:rolleyes

I've known HB Marcus for 25 years. I am the person who he sites as his main "influence", (I know, shame on me:evil ) and the person "Joe" in the Joe Shmoe Show" is based on. (BTW not a copyright infringement as he was writing the book and submitting it before the show ever was on-air, also not spelled the same and the concepts are completely different. So you can lay that one to rest.)

I at one time considered going with PA to "publish" a book. I did some homework and read up on several boards including theirs and this one all the info I could, and in the mean time learned that I could be "published" with them if I only wanted to get my book in print and not much more. Right away I questioned the way they did things and since it didn't feel right, decided to hold out. I'm glad I did. I've debated the whole PA thing with HB for a year or better, and still can't quite understand the reason he went with them- FOR THREE BOOKS. I guess it's a matter of preference.

Maybe my writing will never be published. If I just wanted a book to hold, I could print one out a Kinko's, and for a lot less hassle than this has all turned into....There has been a lot of wasted energy with the debate over whether PA is doing a good thing by "publishing" people who could otherwise not get published, or a bad thing by (intentionally or not) misleading those who don't have a contract lawyer read the contract, and discuss it with them.

I decided to not "publish" with them since I would like to make a buck or two with my writing, but not at the expense of my soul.

O.K., ramble over.......
 
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