No payment yet; do I keep writing for them?

rhymegirl · Nov 3, 2012

Just wanted to get your thoughts on this situation I'm trying to deal with.

I just started writing for a local monthly publication. My first article is supposed to appear in the November issue. This is a free magazine/newspaper so it's tricky to find it. I usually see it at our local library.

I interviewed the subject of the piece back in early September. I turned in the article at the end of September, hoping I would get paid soon.

The editor failed to tell me I would have to send them an invoice to get paid. I had to get in touch with her to find out how things are done. (I really need this money!)

I mailed them my invoice on October 22. So far I still haven't been paid.

I would assume once the newspaper hits the stands I should get paid. Apparently it is a pay on publication type of situation, although she never told me that.

Now she wants me to write another article for the December issue, due next week. But I'm feeling kinda uneasy about writing another piece when I still haven't been paid for the first one.

What do you think? Should I do it? Should I ask when I'm going to get paid for my first article? I don't want to be too much of a pest, but I'm just amazed by the attitudes of some editors. She acted as if the getting paid part was no big deal, not spelling out the details. Uh, that's why I'm DOING this!

Deleted member 42 · Nov 3, 2012

Thirty days after invoicing or even thirty days after publication isn't that unusual.

Corussa · Nov 3, 2012

I'm a freelance editor rather than writer, but here are my thoughts, for what they're worth:

Some clients I work for have a strict thirty-days payment policy from the date of invoice - if I invoice on 22 October, I get paid on 22 November. One pays on a 30-days-net policy - if I invoice on 22 October, I get paid on 30 November. Several pay on time according to these terms; some let it go on and on until I nag for payment (the very worst for me has been about three months late).

I don't think it would be unreasonable to explain politely to the editor in question that although you'd love to write for their publication again soon, your policy with a new writing client is to establish their reliability regarding payments first. Making it clear that you don't think they're untrustworthy (perish the thought!), but that it's just your standard practice.

Hope that helps.

rhymegirl · Nov 3, 2012

Corussa said:
Some clients I work for have a strict thirty-days payment policy from the date of invoice - if I invoice on 22 October, I get paid on 22 November.

See, I can understand this. And if I had known that I was supposed to send an invoice to get paid, I would have mailed them my invoice on September 27 when I turned in my article. That means since October 27 has gone by, I would probably have my payment by now.

But it bothers me a lot that this editor did not tell me important information about how to get paid.

Haggis · Nov 3, 2012

rhymegirl said:
See, I can understand this. And if I had known that I was supposed to send an invoice to get paid, I would have mailed them my invoice on September 27 when I turned in my article. That means since October 27 has gone by, I would probably have my payment by now.

But it bothers me a lot that this editor did not tell me important information about how to get paid.

Sometimes you have to ask. :Shrug:

Corussa · Nov 3, 2012

rhymegirl said:
See, I can understand this. And if I had known that I was supposed to send an invoice to get paid, I would have mailed them my invoice on September 27 when I turned in my article. That means since October 27 has gone by, I would probably have my payment by now.

But it bothers me a lot that this editor did not tell me important information about how to get paid.

I really do sympathise. And in-house editors usually (in my experience) are very good about prompting to submit an invoice, and outlining the company's invoicing process and policy if necessary.

Still, at least this won't happen to you a second time, now you know that some editors may benefit from nudging about this kind of thing.

Silver King · Nov 3, 2012

rhymegirl said:
...Now she wants me to write another article for the December issue, due next week. But I'm feeling kinda uneasy about writing another piece when I still haven't been paid for the first one...

I'd write the piece and send it in, this time with an invoice enclosed. Sounds like you might be on to a regular paying gig once the initial kinks are worked out.

Now if they should ask for a third story and still haven't paid for the first one, I'd decline the offer until their account is up to date.

Keep in mind that with many businesses, payment within thirty days often means forty-five or even sixty days; and no amount of pleading or bitching will help to get your money sooner.

veinglory · Nov 3, 2012

Invoices are often dealt with monthly so I would not take it amiss if payment took anything up to almost 2 months.

frimble3 · Nov 3, 2012

Ask her to spell out the whole payment system to you, so you won't "be a pest", as you put it. (Although if she suggested or implied, or even sighed heavily, that your asking for payment information was somehow inappropriate - watch her like a hawk.)
It's a job - being too polite to get paid is not good. How long would she have been willing to put off paying you if you hadn't asked the question that lead to the 'just put in an invoice' information? Why didn't she say "We pay at the end of the month, after publication, or whatever", then?
Ask her to spell out her terms of payment before you agree to the new article. It's probably perfectly straightforward once it's spelled out, but you'd think it would be automatic to spell it out to a new freelancer.

Silver King · Nov 3, 2012

frimble3 said:
Ask her to spell out the whole payment system to you, so you won't "be a pest", as you put it. (Although if she suggested or implied, or even sighed heavily, that your asking for payment information was somehow inappropriate - watch her like a hawk.)
It's a job - being too polite to get paid is not good. How long would she have been willing to put off paying you if you hadn't asked the question that lead to the 'just put in an invoice' information? Why didn't she say "We pay at the end of the month, after publication, or whatever", then?
Ask her to spell out her terms of payment before you agree to the new article. It's probably perfectly straightforward once it's spelled out, but you'd think it would be automatic to spell it out to a new freelancer.

That's all well and good, in hindsight. But Kathy should have done her homework first to ensure there wouldn't be a delayed payment issue in the first place.

gettingby · Nov 4, 2012

Most places don't pay you until after they run the story. That is normal. So it's kind of early for you to complain about not getting paid. If you turn down the new assignment over this, you will look bad. Just keep up with the assignments and don't worry about not getting paid until you have a reason to worry. Right now, you don't have a reason.

jeffo · Nov 5, 2012

Silver King said:
I'd write the piece and send it in, this time with an invoice enclosed. Sounds like you might be on to a regular paying gig once the initial kinks are worked out.

Now if they should ask for a third story and still haven't paid for the first one, I'd decline the offer until their account is up to date.

Keep in mind that with many businesses, payment within thirty days often means forty-five or even sixty days; and no amount of pleading or bitching will help to get your money sooner.

I'd absolutely second that advice. And I'd even keep track of the invoices -- 30 days after you send your first invoice, don't be afraid to send another one! That's what any business does, and your writing is a business isn't it?

Melina · Nov 7, 2012

Silver King said:
I'd write the piece and send it in, this time with an invoice enclosed. Sounds like you might be on to a regular paying gig once the initial kinks are worked out.

Now if they should ask for a third story and still haven't paid for the first one, I'd decline the offer until their account is up to date.

Keep in mind that with many businesses, payment within thirty days often means forty-five or even sixty days; and no amount of pleading or bitching will help to get your money sooner.

I agree with Silver King. This sounds like it's going to be a regular thing, and I wouldn't want to risk losing it over what sounds like a miscommunication. Include your invoice with the second article. If you're not paid 30 days from that date, then reconsider whether the late payments are worth enduring for the regular gig.

WeaselFire · Nov 8, 2012

I have two similar gigs. One pays the Friday after they get an invoice and I get the check Monday or Tuesday. One pays 4-6 weeks out. Both are established and reliable, just different payment schemes.

Never rely on publishers for money you don't have in the bank.

Jeff

rhymegirl · Nov 14, 2012

Thank you to everyone who responded here. I appreciate all the replies.

The situation has finally gotten resolved. It wasn't a matter of having to wait 30 days for payment.

I did write a second article for them. We'll see how it goes.

yendor1152 · Nov 15, 2012

Your first mistake: "needing the money." Your second mistake: writing for a "free publication." Your third mistake: not knowing how to ask for payment. It's not up to the magazine or newspaper to inform you about invoices and such. That's your responsibility as a writer. Do your homework before jumping into any writing situation. Less headaches that way, and you'll avoid the mess you're apparently facing now.

I've been an active freelancer since 1985, bouncing between paying and non-paying markets. I've never done it because I need the money. That's the wrong attitude, in my opinion. Do it out of love for the subject or love for the actual writing and seeing your stuff in print. If you get paid big bucks, wonderful! But if you're paid in copies, then that's wonderful, too--especially if you love what you're doing

NicoleJLeBoeuf · Nov 15, 2012

Your first mistake: "needing the money." ... I've never done it because I need the money. That's the wrong attitude, in my opinion. Do it out of love for the subject or love for the actual writing and seeing your stuff in print. If you get paid big bucks, wonderful! But if you're paid in copies, then that's wonderful, too--especially if you love what you're doing

Wow. So, you're saying, "freelance writer" is not a valid a job description? Anyone here who hopes to build a career around freelance writing is just deluded?

I've got some callers on the other line who'd like to chat with you. Let's start with Bob Bly. After that we have our own Jenna Glatzer. After that -- wait, I think we have Anonymous Satisfied Publish America Author on Line 3 supporting your stance that your highest priority should be simply seeing yourself in print...

Deleted member 42 · Nov 15, 2012

yendor1152 said:
I've been an active freelancer since 1985, bouncing between paying and non-paying markets. I've never done it because I need the money. That's the wrong attitude, in my opinion. Do it out of love for the subject or love for the actual writing and seeing your stuff in print.

I don't give a red cent for my name in print or love of the subject.

I write for money. It's my job, and what I do to make a living. It's been my job for quite a while now.

It's great that you write for a vocation.

A lot of us are full time professionals. And we do need the money.

yendor1152 · Nov 15, 2012

Hey, I'm just talking from experience. Sorry if I touched a nerve, but reality is sometimes a bitter pill. Writing for a free publication isn't a good thing. They more than likely depend on ad revenue to stay alive, and I'd be willing to bet they pay peanuts. That kind of payment isn't what I'd call "money to live on" or even "money needed."

yendor1152 · Nov 15, 2012

NicoleJLeBoeuf said:
Wow. So, you're saying, "freelance writer" is not a valid a job description? Anyone here who hopes to build a career around freelance writing is just deluded?

I've got some callers on the other line who'd like to chat with you. Let's start with Bob Bly. After that we have our own Jenna Glatzer. After that -- wait, I think we have Anonymous Satisfied Publish America Author on Line 3 supporting your stance that your highest priority should be simply seeing yourself in print...

Where are you getting this "deluded" nonsense? Your highest priority as a writer should be love of the art. That's the bottom line. It shouldn't be money. We all have to start somewhere, and if you're not starting with the love, you have nothing.

Alexandra Little · Nov 15, 2012

People do a lot of things for money. Why not writing? Love has nothing to do with being proficient at it.

veinglory · Nov 15, 2012

I am not seeing how "needing the money" is a choice or a mistake, sometimes it is just a reality. It's certainly why I first started submitting for publication. Lack of money is very motivating.

Deleted member 42 · Nov 15, 2012

yendor1152 said:
Hey, I'm just talking from experience. Sorry if I touched a nerve, but reality is sometimes a bitter pill. Writing for a free publication isn't a good thing. They more than likely depend on ad revenue to stay alive, and I'd be willing to bet they pay peanuts. That kind of payment isn't what I'd call "money to live on" or even "money needed."

Here's the thing; you may have been freelancing a long time, but you're on site with a wide variety of writers, and your initial post implied writers writing for money (rather than for love) were doin' it rong, and then, you compounded your error by making assumptions about "writing for free."

Tor.com is a free publication, but they pay writers rather well. So do a number of the technical publications I write for, even though readers don't have to pay. A lot of the community "weekly" papers are free to readers, but pay writers quite handsomely.

Sometimes pay that's "peanuts" may be worth it to individual writers. Everyone has to decide that for themselves. I've had periods in the past where I wrote for 02.5 a word, and was damn glad to have the money. It was honest work, and I'd do it again if I needed to.

LindaJeanne · Nov 15, 2012

yendor1152 said:
I've never done it because I need the money. That's the wrong attitude, in my opinion.

It must be nice.

Silver King · Nov 15, 2012

yendor1152 said:
Hey, I'm just talking from experience. Sorry if I touched a nerve, but reality is sometimes a bitter pill...

You bring up some good points; however, your delivery could use a little work. You don't have to sugar-coat your feelings, but there's no reason to take on an accusatory tone that belittles others in this discussion.

No payment yet; do I keep writing for them?

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