So how long is Harry Potter's shadow?

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MDSchafer

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I've noticed that unlike genre fans, editors, and agents are quick to compare a work to a more popular and therefore dismiss it as unoriginal. Unlike a field like romance, where I think they all pretty much sound the same, basic similarities are enough to be branded, "It's too much like Harry Potter," or "It sounds like Lord of the Rings to me."

Have certain franchises gained enough popularity that certain ideas are just not viable anymore. Have the basic ideas of epic fantasy, and urban fantasies using teenagers become so clouded with major hits that even basic concepts such as magical teenagers have become taboo because of the success of one work.

I think its so bad in the urban fantasy genre right now that massive amounts of territory are just untouchable for unpublished writers. A couple of examples; one of my friends had a novel he was working on described as Goonies, but with magic, and it essentially was lighthearted contemporary fantasy that made fun of a number of 80s concepts, but because it had children and magic in it, everyone compared it to Harry Potter and he couldn't get an agent; Another one of my writer friends recently had her contract killed for a series about a 20ish year old woman who joins a pack of werewolfs because some people felt the idea, although not the plot, substance or style, but the basic concept was too close to Twilight.

I've been working on a story about a newspaper reporter who covers a community of sorcerers. The criticism I've most consistently gotten is "It sounds like Harry Potter." Even though I was basing the story my experience as a reporter and wanted to use urban fantasy as an analogy for undocumented citizen or a GLBT person I still got comparisons to Harry Potter despite the fact the actual magic was minimal, it didn't have a school in it, and since it was based in Atlanta no one rode a train, but I still got, "your character reminds me of Harry Potter as a grown up."

Has Harry Potter fouled the well of urban fantasy because it's so incredibly popular, and has so elements in it almost every work can be compared to it?
 
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JamieB

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Agents ask for a hook exactly like the one your friend had (that sounded great to me) Goonies but with magic. If you don't have a hook, you're sunk. If your hook sounds to "Potter", you're sunk? I hope not. I hope what made Potter so successful will still spark an agent/editor's eye.

I don't see how having something like Potter could be a bad thing now that it's over. Twilight is over now too. The next big thing is always right around the corner. Of course, I have asked agents about Paranormal Romance/Chick Lit and some are sick of it, think it's a past and dying genre. But, a post on The Swivit yesterday linked to an article showing big sales of Charlaine Harris' Sookie books due to the True Blood series on HBO. People won't stop wanting to buy what they like. I could eat chocolate every day (and usually do) and still want more. I love Potter and would give anything for another 7 years at Hogwarts for Christmas.
 

dclary

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Sometimes, that's a gentle way of saying "Not for us, thanks." If you can blame potter, rather than tell a writer you don't care for their material, you sound more genial than were you to admit the truth.
 

Claudia Gray

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There seem to be plenty of urban fantasy/magic-themed books getting published these days, so the shadow can't be THAT long.
 

MDSchafer

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Sometimes, that's a gentle way of saying "Not for us, thanks." If you can blame potter, rather than tell a writer you don't care for their material, you sound more genial than were you to admit the truth.

You know I've thought of that too, because its very difficult to get honest professional feedback even when you go to conferences and pay for it.

But it's something you get from fans a lot in this genre too. More so in fantasy than Science Fiction I've noticed, but reading through the crit boards its pretty easy to find a thread where a someone leaves a comment along the lines of it "sounds too much like," and add the name of whatever franchise you want.

It seems to be an unfair standard that doesn't exist in other genres, such as romance, thriller and literary. But in if you have an urban fantasy about magical teenagers who attend a school people will pop up to accuse you of deriving your ideas from Rowling, and try to draw parallels from your work to hers.

In my friend's case her publisher paid to get out of a contract because of the perception of a similarity to Twilight, and felt it was so grave that any re-writes wouldn't solve the situation.
 
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Ruv Draba

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I've noticed that unlike genre fans, editors, and agents are quick to compare a work to a more popular and therefore dismiss it as unoriginal.
The issue here is surely novelty, not originality -- and novelty is generational. Many readers consider Harry Potter novel because they haven't read much British boarding school adventure stories (which have been around for over a century), and probably haven't seen fantasy in that context. But Potter's hardly original. Consider Jill Murphy's classic The Worst Witch series for instance, about a young witch in boarding school, which first saw publication in the seventies.

I've been working on a story about a newspaper reporter who covers a community of sorcerers. 8<--Snip--8< Even though I was basing the story my experience as a reporter and wanted to use urban fantasy as an analogy for undocumented citizen or a GLBT person I still got comparisons to Harry Potter
Most fantasy readers want escapism; escapism hinges on novelty of setting, characters and situations. Some very talented authors can write literary fantasy with strong social or psychological themes say, but they still have to make it novel and fun or nobody will read it. The issue here isn't the length of Potter's shadow, but how bright is your own imagination. Urban Fantasy is choked with cliché, trope and derivative ideas, with everyone recycling each other's vomit. You'll have to work hard to stand out of that mire.

Notable about your premise for me was an utter lack of 'so what': a journalist covers sorcerors -- so what? The mystery section is full of journalists; the fantasy section is full of sorcerors. And why Atlanta? Isn't it just another faceless Western city?

Why blame Potter? Your premise is already lost in the background noise.

My advice: keep twisting it until it looks new. Industry opinion is that it takes three to five really strong twists these days before a premise looks novel. 'Journalist covers sorcerors in Atlanta' isn't even one good twist yet. How about 'Vampire journalist suffering magical curse covers apocalyptic lesbian sorceror cult in Morocco?' [Over the top maybe, but nobody will compare it to Potter, right? ;)]
 
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ChaosTitan

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It seems to be an unfair standard that doesn't exist in other genres, such as romance, thriller and literary. But in if you have an urban fantasy about magical teenagers who attend a school people will pop up to accuse you of deriving your ideas from Rowling, and try to draw parallels from your work to hers.

And ten years ago, anything paranormal was automatically compared to "Interview with the Vampire." It's just the way it goes. There will always be something at the top of the heap, something that is easy to compare new works to.

Don't discount the same thing happening in other genres, either. I'm sure every new thriller that has even a tangential mention of Jesus, Mary Magdalene, or secret societies is automatically compared to "The DaVinci Code."

When I tell people my book is paranormal, they almost always go, "Oh, like Twilight?" I smile politely, then calmly tell them why it's absolutely nothing like Twilight (the only things we share are a female protag and the existence of vampires, but that does not a clone make).

It may not even be that the "Goonies with magic" idea is too much like something else (hell, I'd love to read a book like that), or that the idea isn't publishable. Maybe the writing isn't. Maybe the execution is off. There's really no way to know.

The thing I find most amusing, though, is that people keep comparing adult urban fantasies to these two YA/MG novels. They are both targeted to teens and/or children. Yes, there is adult crossover into both HP and Twilight, but I very much doubt there is as much crossover of kids (maybe more teens) into UF.

It's just the latest craze. Don't let it discourage you. Let it drive you to make your own UF MORE. More unique. More original. Don't just rehash the "girl joins a wolfpack" idea. As Ruv Draba said, keep twisting it. Twist it hard.
 

Severian

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Don't discount the same thing happening in other genres, either. I'm sure every new thriller that has even a tangential mention of Jesus, Mary Magdalene, or secret societies is automatically compared to "The DaVinci Code."

I have to admit that when reading a blurb that mentions "lost religious artefact", "Church's most guarded secret" or "fallen angel", I automatically think "Da Vinci Code".

If anything I've taken this as a sign that publishers are actually MORE willing to take on work that resembles something already successful, because they think they can piggy-back on the hype and interest already generated.
 

dclary

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/outbids SPMiller by 5% and offers movie rights.
 

Ruv Draba

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Blurb:

It shouldn't be possible for a vampire to become a paraplegic, but Byron Maunders suffers just that affliction -- a mummy's curse that is gradually killing him permanently. Now unable to hunt he has returned to his old job of investigative journalism to pay for blood supplies.

Travel for Maunders is hard, so when his editor offers an expenses-paid trip to Morocco at first he refuses. But why is he getting cryptic messages from the Sapphic Order of Selene? Why is he being stalked by the walking cadaver in the fez? And what is his ancient nemesis Prunankhamen doing in the Northern Sahara?

Find out in... Deadline: Maunders in Morocco.
 

SPMiller

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Bestselling award-winner in the making, if you ask me.

Throw in some teenaged angst and an abusive relationship and you'll outsell The DaVinci Code.
 

trickywoo

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I wouldn't get discouraged.

I think if the writing is solid and you have an interesting and well-developed story, it won't be rejected because it's too similar to something else.

That being said, trying to write to the trends probably won't land you an agent. I've read on several blogs that publishing is a year or two ahead of the trends in print.

For example, if you query a vampire story right now, it will be harder to land an agent (but not impossible).

Worst case scenario - shelve your project for a couple of years and resubmit when the trend has passed. Good luck!
 

ChaosTitan

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Blurb:

It shouldn't be possible for a vampire to become a paraplegic, but Byron Maunders suffers just that affliction -- a mummy's curse that is gradually killing him permanently. Now unable to hunt he has returned to his old job of investigative journalism to pay for blood supplies.

I don't know anything about Morocco or lesbian sorcerer cults, but I will arm wrestle all takers for the above blurb. :D
 

Keyan

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Blurb:

It shouldn't be possible for a vampire to become a paraplegic, but Byron Maunders suffers just that affliction -- a mummy's curse that is gradually killing him permanently. Now unable to hunt he has returned to his old job of investigative journalism to pay for blood supplies.

Travel for Maunders is hard, so when his editor offers an expenses-paid trip to Morocco at first he refuses. But why is he getting cryptic messages from the Sapphic Order of Selene? Why is he being stalked by the walking cadaver in the fez? And what is his ancient nemesis Prunankhamen doing in the Northern Sahara?

Find out in... Deadline: Maunders in Morocco.

Will you bloody well *write* it, instead of teasing?

<stands in line to beta-read>
 

Ruv Draba

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The object of this exercise is to help MDSchafer -- not encourage Ruv to write UF genre. :tongue Anyway, MD... I hope that this exercise shows that it's not too hard to twist your story into a level of novelty that gets readers excited. :)

Don't forget, you can twist character, setting and/or situation... Three to five twists is ideal. Don't be restrained by people telling you 'write what you know' -- you can always research new stuff. Or maybe your journalist already has some great twists -- and maybe so do the sorcerors and Atlanta... but if they do then you need to bring that out.

Good luck! ;)

[Oh, and anyone is welcome to use any bit of that story/character idea if they want -- but I claim dibs on the name 'Byron Maunders'[SUP]TM[/SUP]. :D]
 
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Darzian

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I was doing a beta the other day, and I told the writer, "Your beginning is too much like Harry Potter- change it."

The point is, in this particular case, too many points coincide with Harry Potter. eg, no parents, abusive uncle, abusive cousin, no friends at school, has mysterious magic that saves MC in emergencies, bullied at school, young life totally miserable etc......

I suggested altering some of the points because while reading, it inevitably resonated with Harry Potter. I asked her to at least give the MC a supportive friend at school. That itself creates a drastically different scenario.

It's all about execution. The rest of the above story is not like HP, but the beginning was very similar. The point is: There is no need for it to be so similar! Expand the family! Don't just have an abusive uncle and cousin. Making such alterations doesn't affect the plot at all! I think the writer was subconsciously influenced by HP and wrote the beginning in a similar manner (it definitely happens with new writers). I did point out that it was not necessary. The plot doesn't need it.

On the other hand, I'm getting tired of people saying "Like LOTR?" if we just mention that this book has a medieval setting or some such. People like to generalize.
 

Feidb

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Everything is a copy of everything else, even the originals. It can be hard to draw a line. An even longer shadow, when it comes to fantasy is Lord of The Rings, or anything that even hints of D&D.

I guess the only way to be totally original is to write a 500 page book of nonsense, with no words put together the same way, no coherent sentences, no plot, no story at all. Yeah, that would be original. Just random words strung together with punctuation. Would probably sell a million of Brad Pitt or Angelina wrote it. But as for us poor unknowns...

You are always going to be compared to someone, no matter what you write. In fact, it has been encouraged that when you query your book, the agents like to know who it compares to so they know where it will go on the bookshelf at the store. Uh, that kind of pigeon holes you right off the bat, if you ask me.
 

MattW

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The shadow is a function of Harry's height, the time of day, date, altitude, and geographic location.
 

dclary

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And how close Hermione is to him because.....




























wait for it.....









































She really *IS* the brightest witch of her generation!


:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:



:|
 
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