New Way to Make Myself Crazy

MsJudy · Sep 20, 2007

Okay, on the one hand, there's nothing new under the sun, and Aristotle said there are only 8 stories to tell and we're all just telling variations of them. On the other hand, the key to being published, I believe, is to come up with something fresh and new that hasn't been done before.

Aaaagh!

The first kids' book I tried to write was based on an historical event. I spent a year researching it, then discovered someone else had already written a decet YA novel about it. I didn't have anything better to add, so I moved on to another idea.

That idea involved a dragon that gets turned into a mouse. In the 4 years it took me to write the book, Eragon became a phenom and every other MG fantasy published, it seems, had a dragon in it. So now mine is finished, and I can't get anyone to look at it. Bad timing, oh well, I haven't given up on it yet but I'm moving on.

So my current half-finished WIP involves a spriggan, a creature from Cornwall and Wales that I discovered surfing the net. I'd never heard of it before, so I figured that was a good place to start. Now my son brings home Revenge of the Shadow King and--guess what--key character is a spriggan. A couple of other details are similar, because they're both based on the mythology of the British Isles.

Should I worry about it? Should I care? Should I just keep going and trust that since the plots are very different it won't be a problem? Or do I bury my head in the blankets and feel cursed to never have an original idea in my life? Then try to figure out a way to rewrite it so no one will confuse the two?

I mean, Eragon obviously borrowed from or paid homage to LOTR. How much is okay, and how much is derivative? and how do you know without going bonkers? Which I already am?

Toothpaste · Sep 20, 2007

Eragon is much panned because of how derivative it is. But that isn't the issue.

The thing is, there are only a few ideas out there and it is the way the story is told, not the story/plot itself that is the selling point. You could have told the exact same story as someone else, and yet it would still be entirely unique because of your voice. This is why it is silly of authors to fear their ideas being stolen.

STOP THINKING ABOUT IT! You'll go mad otherwise! Write what you damn well want to write. Stop worrying yourself. There are no original ideas!! Deal with it.

I have a character who is ship's surgeon called Shakespeare. I came up with that because he is based on a friend of mine who is an actor and his name starts with S. I go to see the movies Stardust, and lo and behold there is a Captain Shakespeare. What am I supposed to do about that? It's Neil Gaiman, my book is already published. Oh well.

Work on what makes you unique. Is it your voice? You sense of humour? Your skill at writing evocative descriptions?

And you will be fine. No two stories are the same. Not even the retellings of the same story. YOU are unique. YOU are original. YOU make the difference.

Ziljon · Sep 20, 2007

Yeah, Toothpaste is right, (dang, how come she's always right?).

And anyway, I think there's enough room in the literary universe for TWO books about spriggans.

What are friggan spriggans anyway?

Danger Jane · Sep 20, 2007

Yeah, it's all about the writing and the people. Truly original plots are rare birds

Because there ARE none.

Right?

Basically everything is some kind of metaphorical quest. Therefore we are all writing quest books, whether a quest for romance or a quest for the Magic Sword.

Anyway if there is ONE other book with spriggans...I think you're good.

Hedgetrimmer · Sep 20, 2007

I'm going to take the optimistic road and, respectfully, disagree with Aristotle and anyone else who subscribes to his notion that all ideas have been written about and that anything subsequent is simply a variation of an old theme. Written in an era completley removed from modern society, Aristotle's Poetics simply lays forth a general outline of a limited (something like 6?) possible conflicts. The list includes Man versus Man, Man versus Nature, Man versus Himself.

This being contemporary 2007, we can already add Man versus Technology to the list, something, obviously, nonexistent at the time of Aristotle's writings. I don't think it farfetched at all that someday, someone, delving deep into the well of human creativity, conjures up a conflict that simply was not applicable at the time Aristotle wrote his list. Sci-Fi already does that. Man versus Alien certainly isn't on his list. How about if someone wrote a book in which the main characters aren't even people but are mere emotions, love being the protagonist and hate being the antagonist? Yeah, it sounds crazy, but doesn't all ingenuity?

When I sit down with pen and paper, I toss the notion of being repetitive to the wind. I'm always looking to break the mold and do something no one else has yet to do. Thus far, I've yet to succeed, and so I do the only thing I can do: I write what my muse gives me and trust that the voice and the treatment and the themes are so personal and unique that the work is, in fact, something new.

For what it's worth, I've heard more than once that the best book written is the book only you can write. And I believe that.

MsJudy · Sep 20, 2007

thank you darlings. I knew if I started the conversation, you guys would reel me in from the deep waters of my own insecurities!

p.s. the miners of Cornwall and Britain (according to my research) believed little goblin-like creatures called spriggans were guarding the treasures hidden underground. they would make weird knocking noises to lead the miners astray when they got too close to a rich vein of ore. Stephen King's Tommyknockers are based on a similar legend.

Can I just say here, totally off topic, how much I love the Internet? Not only do I get great support from all you lovely people so I don't wig out on small worries; I can also google things like "how to protect yourself from fairies" and get all kinds of great information from people who don't even seem to know that most people don't believe in fairies anymore.....

According to them, fairies don't like salt. Or oats. Or iron. Now, isn't that useful information?!

Toothpaste · Sep 20, 2007

Hedgetrimmer - I don't think when we make the argument that there are no original ideas we are necessarily working from the model created by Aristotle. Certainly we no longer think that a good story needs to happen over the course of a day for example. But I still think, no matter how abstract the ideas may become, they still boil down to fundementally the same few ideas. Man against technology/aliens etc. That may be the construct. But what is the goal/fight? For supremacy? For understanding each other? For ultimately living together in harmony? These are all very familiar themes. The characters may vary but the goals are most the same.

And I bet, somewhere out there, someone has written a book about pure hate versus pure love. To me it is a far more comforting thought that while there are no new ideas, there are always new people writing about them. And that that will keep stories fresh and exciting and worth writing. The task of coming up with a truly original idea . . . not something that helps me personally with the writing process. But serious good luck with your quest! I would love to be proven wrong!

badducky · Sep 20, 2007

Toothpaste, you're hinting at the classic four basic conflicts:

Man vs Man (Jean Claude Van Damme dukes it out with his latest arch-nemesis)
Man vs Self (Jean Claude Van Damme must conquer his irrational fear of clowns)
Man vs Society (Jean Claude Van Damme must conquer our racism against Belgians)
Man vs Nature (Jean Claude Van Damme vs Hurricane Katrina, and I'm betting on Katrina, also this is where technology fits, technically, unless you refer to a social science which puts it one category up)

All your conflicts can be boiled down to one of these four. Since plots often involve hearty doses of conflict, usually any combination of these four in some order is basically your plot.

Plots are basically very boring and mechanical. It is the execution of the plots that is what separates author from mere scribbler. The execution of plots is the voice of the narrator, the style, the panache, and all that undefined stuff that no literary critic has yet been able to successfully communicate, but everyone knows it when they see it.

edit: oh, speaking of derivative ideas, did you know there are at least two other books and one major cult classic film with the exact same title as my book? I don't think anyone will get confused seeking the "glow" in my book... I hope.

moondance · Sep 21, 2007

From my experience, the problem is publishers who jump on the bandwagon when an idea takes off (recent fantasy explosion following HP and LOTR films a prime example) and publish some really rubbish stuff because people are reading that genre at that time. Publishers can also be extraordinarily narrow-minded on the subject matter of books. My book 'Red Tears' deals with self-harming, and the response from many US pubishers has been, 'there's already a book on self-harming, it's called Cut'. So clearly, from that inference, there is only room in the whole of the US for one book on that issue. Bonkers.

You can only do what you can do. Sometimes if you can see a niche, you can try to target it (that's what I'm doing at the moment) but otherwise you just have to keep digging away and hoping you'll strike gold.

Fillanzea · Sep 21, 2007

I'm not saying this applies to anyone at all posting on this thread, but...

Children's / YA literature in general seems to have an unfortunate tendency (more so than adult books, at least in my experience) towards topicality. Books that are about $Serious Social Issue, or $Historical Era, with a view more towards education than literature or entertainment. That is to say, with a lot of books, it feels like you're supposed to read them to find out about the American revolution, or eating disorders, rather than for the sake of enjoying a good story well told or gaining insight into the human condition.

And I think that topical books are the ones that are most going to suffer for not being 'original.' If a book is good primarily because it teaches you about X... then there's a limit to how many you need, right? That limit may be large or small, but sooner or later you'll get there.

But a really good story that doesn't come from that kind of pedagogical or didactic perspective doesn't face that kind of limitations. It can be about serious social issues, or a historical era, or... heck, it can be about eating disorders during the American revolution if that's what you feel like, but if it is first and foremost a good and true story, there is no surfeit of those, and no limit to how many we need.

moondance · Sep 23, 2007

Fillanzea, what you're saying probably applies to me, since Red Tears is primarily about a girl who self-harms. The point of the book is to explore self-harm. However, I strongly agree with you about the importance of plot - and I feel that if the reader is sufficiently interested in the character, then they will be drawn in despite the 'issue' based nature of the book.

I have to say, I don't think I've read many issue books or historical books for the YA section that I have felt are more educational than inspirational. I'm not convinced your argument holds water because kids are brighter than that and know when they're being educated. They can also spot a damn fine story.

MsJudy · Sep 23, 2007

There's also a difference between writing about a Topic and writing about a kid who'd dealing with a particular issue. If you're a kid who's cutting, or knows someone who is, what a huge relief it is to find there's a book out there you can relate to. Especially if the characters are real, believable, likeable, and find some sort of way of dealing with the situation. That goes for any of the bazillion things that make us all feel Different. I know that when I read my first graders a story about characters who speak Spanish, everything in the room changes. Suddenly they're not the outsiders trying to fit in. They're IN the book! But it doesn't work if they're being lectured. It all comes down to the quality of the story.

The Grump · Sep 24, 2007

Back to all that research...

So what if a book has been written about THAT particular event. How many books have been written about the French Revolution or any one of a thousand different battles.

If more than one person took part in the event, there's more than one story. Your book would be about one particular person's experiences connected to the event. As with all books, it's the execution of the story that counts -- provided you don't kill it.

Have I been abstract enough?

munkey32507 · Sep 24, 2007

Can I say that I think it is great that you keep having to put books down because someone has beat you to the punch. To to me it says that you are SO close to a great book!! Imitation is the best form of flattery right??

New Way to Make Myself Crazy

MsJudy

Toothpaste

THE RECKLESS RESCUE is out now!

Ziljon

Tortilla di Patate

Danger Jane

Hedgetrimmer

What happened, just there?

MsJudy

Toothpaste

THE RECKLESS RESCUE is out now!

badducky

No Time For Chitchat, Kemosabe.

moondance

Fillanzea

moondance

MsJudy

The Grump

Hates Marketing. Loves Writing.

munkey32507