Historical Fiction Readers/Writers:

girlyswot

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It does come back to our old, old debate about plausibility vs. accuracy, though, doesn't it? What do you want to achieve? A book that is completely accurate in every detail which readers don't buy into because of popular misconceptions? Or a book which draws readers in and plays along with them and builds an internally consistent, believable historical world, even if it's not quite 'right'?

And yes, there are often ways to achieve both accuracy and plausibility but not always. Sometimes it's a payoff.
 

Doogs

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Well some of my readers need to take tips from your readers. It's bothering me that, with one of my books, my little-known tidbits are noticed and talked about, but not in a positive way. They'll say, "Well, I've never heard of this. It makes me wonder if the author has really done her homework." When I protest that, yes, these are all authentic, well-researched details, they sniff and say, "Well, then, you need to establish your credibility or I'm never going to believe such facts." How does one establish credibility apart from...um...giving authentic, well-researched details? Grrr...

Sorry to hear you're facing such frustrating feedback.

I imagine I'll have the same thing awaiting if I ever get the Alaric book written. There's so much "accepted as fact" stuff that never happened but that still gets regurgitated in a lot of casual histories (thanks, extremely biased ancient chroniclers!).

That's one thing non-fiction has over fiction - the almighty footnote!
 

ishtar'sgate

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Well some of my readers need to take tips from your readers. It's bothering me that, with one of my books, my little-known tidbits are noticed and talked about, but not in a positive way. They'll say, "Well, I've never heard of this. It makes me wonder if the author has really done her homework." When I protest that, yes, these are all authentic, well-researched details, they sniff and say, "Well, then, you need to establish your credibility or I'm never going to believe such facts." How does one establish credibility apart from...um...giving authentic, well-researched details? Grrr...
Don't worry about it. Keep your research handy and quote it to them if you think it's necessary. I constantly have to explain myself to students who read my medieval novel for school. I get - 'that would never happen in the middle ages' or 'women couldn't do that in medieval times'. I just quote my sources.
 

ishtar'sgate

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I imagine I'll have the same thing awaiting if I ever get the Alaric book written. There's so much "accepted as fact" stuff that never happened but that still gets regurgitated in a lot of casual histories (thanks, extremely biased ancient chroniclers!).
You said it. In researching my current wip I found a lot of things accepted as fact that couldn't have been the way they said it was. A couple of fun things I'm reworking is the accepted historical 'fact' of the Hanging Gardens in Babylon as well as accepted 'facts' on how the Persians & Medes got into Babylon. Nothing put forward in any research material I've read makes sense in light of the actual city layout and what we know from archaeological discoveries. As long as you have a logical reason for your version of history there's no reason it couldn't have happened your way. Ancient chroniclers didn't appear to be much hampered by the truth anyway. :D
 

Carmy

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Witness for the prosecution: Evangelynn Stratton

(Warning: move all drinks to a safe distance from your computer before clicking on the above link.)

LOL Well, you have to admire her guts for putting something like that out there.

'scuse me I have to go Ba-a-a-a-a..........
 

Carmy

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Why can't a woman ever work within her historical context?

Seconded and thirded.

Women could and did do so much. For many centuries their work was vital to keep family and community healthy and fed throughout the winter.

Oh, and please go and post that in the Romance writers' section, only be prepared to duck!

And who do people think guarded the castle and led armies while their men were off fighting the Crusades?
 

RichardB

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It does come back to our old, old debate about plausibility vs. accuracy, though, doesn't it?

I've done a fair amount of work as a fight choreographer. There is a certain language to a stage-fight that people accept as real. If you put two people on stage and had them fight for real, the audience would think it's terrible. But if you have them throw big John Wayne punches and never ever block anything they think it's wonderful (unless they actually know how to fight).

Writing HF is the same. People have a vision of "real" history that comes mostly from reading HF. If you actually research something you might accidentally contradict the canon and 'language' of the genre.
 

pdr

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I think...

we have to give our readers sources and a bibliography and an author's note..

As Bard Sky said: Citing your source material at the end can help.

And rtilryarms said: a bibliography is essential for authenticating claims.

It's not just that many readers have assumptions picked up from poorly researched sources, it's often that what they learnt in school sticks and they forget that that was ten or more years ago, and new things have been discovered or rethought since then.

I know this happens to me and I don't mind relearning something if the author has given me the new sources and a biblio to read up on it all again.

I wonder if that's what you're meeting PM?
 

PastMidnight

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Thanks for the support, guys. I think both are probably in play here. Some readers still stick with what they learned in school, despite new research, and others are influenced by faulty views of the period that keep getting batted around. And some, it seems, find the little-known things to be hard-to-swallow simply because they are little-known. There will certainly be a list of sources at the end, but I wonder how much that will help the reader who has issues from the very beginning.

I have a novel in the quarterfinals of the Amazon Breakthrough Novel Awards and, although it's still fairly early in the competition, I have an excerpt (the first chapter) up on Amazon.com. I've been getting a lot of reviews and comments both on the website and via personal email and, although all are positive, there are too many of the "I'm sure you've done your research, BUT" sort of comments for my liking. And in all cases, yes, I have done my research. But what I'm presenting seems to be flying in the face of their misconceptions.

The opening scene takes place during an air raid in Edinburgh in the Second World War and I've had more than a few readers say, "I'm sure you've done your research, BUT Edinburgh wasn't attacked during the war." And most of these are people who live in Edinburgh. I can come back with, "Would you like me to give you the date and time of the particular attack where this scene is set?" when responding to an email, but is a skeptical reader going to stop and flip to the back to scan through my list of sources?

The other that I seem to be getting a lot involves the letters in the excerpt. Much of the novel is epistolary, being a series of letters ranging from 1912-1918. A couple of these letters are introduced right in the first chapter. I've had people comment that the letters just sound too modern to have been written that long ago. One reader thought they sounded too polished, because she always thought letters from that time were rougher and less literate. You'd better believe that, with an epistolary novel, I studied letters from that era. I would be surprised if there was even a word out of place, as I went through each letter with my OED open in another window. Yes, some letters sounded very "modern". And some were more formal. And some were less polished. Can readers really not believe that there are differences in letter-writing? Again, I'm happy to provide sources, but again I ask, is it enough? If readers are questioning my research from the very first chapter, how can I hope to hook them?
 

ishtar'sgate

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The opening scene takes place during an air raid in Edinburgh in the Second World War and I've had more than a few readers say, "I'm sure you've done your research, BUT Edinburgh wasn't attacked during the war." And most of these are people who live in Edinburgh. I can come back with, "Would you like me to give you the date and time of the particular attack where this scene is set?" when responding to an email, but is a skeptical reader going to stop and flip to the back to scan through my list of sources?
Resist the urge to let your frustration show. I know how you feel. It can be pretty exasperating at times. You've done your homework and these sorts of statements get your hackles up. There are a lot of know-it-alls out there just waiting to pounce. Take a deep breath, count to ten and simply respond as blandly as you know how with something like, Edinburgh was attacked on such and such a date. Please refer to (name the source) on my source list on page ..
 

Puma

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PastMidnight - I'm not that familiar with the Amazon contest, but if some of us from here put up comments on the Amazon site, would that help? If it would, could you give me a link. Thanks, Puma
 

PastMidnight

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Resist the urge to let your frustration show. I know how you feel. It can be pretty exasperating at times. You've done your homework and these sorts of statements get your hackles up. There are a lot of know-it-alls out there just waiting to pounce. Take a deep breath, count to ten and simply respond as blandly as you know how with something like, Edinburgh was attacked on such and such a date. Please refer to (name the source) on my source list on page ..

Oh, I know! Nothing can offend a historical novelist faster than questioning her or his research. I've been around this board long enough to know that I'm not alone in this. Say what you will about my writing, but not my research! :)
 

PastMidnight

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PastMidnight - I'm not that familiar with the Amazon contest, but if some of us from here put up comments on the Amazon site, would that help? If it would, could you give me a link. Thanks, Puma

Puma, happy to share the link to my excerpt, and thank you for asking: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001UG3C5S/?tag=absolutewritedm-20 I believe I posted some of this excerpt here on SYW a while ago, so parts might look familiar.

It's a contest that Amazon is running with Penguin. Anybody is certainly welcome to read and comment, either on the Amazon page or via PM here on AW, but please don't feel that you have to leave a review. I don't believe that the customer reviews play a big factor in the judging at this point in the competition, but they've been a nice way of getting feedback.
 

donroc

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My co-Author and I ran into a problem with both Hollywood and German backers for making a film from our unpublished WWII novel about U.S. and Luftwafe fighter aces even though he had written bios of the top German ace, Hartmann and the commander of all fighter pilots, Galland, and was historian for the U.S. Fighter Aces Association. Why?

We portrayed some Luftwaffe pilots as apolitical and not Nazis, which Hollywood people we were dealing with refused to believe existed, and the German backers refused to believe Hitler said to Hartmann and others in 1944 that the war was lost militarily ( he hoped his "wonder weapons" and a split between the western Allies and the USR would save Germany) and that Galland said in January 1945 to his jet fighter pilots, "We may have lost the war, but we can still prove to the world we are the best fighter pilots."
 

ishtar'sgate

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My co-Author and I ran into a problem with both Hollywood and German backers for making a film from our unpublished WWII novel about U.S. and Luftwafe fighter aces even though he had written bios of the top German ace, Hartmann and the commander of all fighter pilots, Galland, and was historian for the U.S. Fighter Aces Association. Why?

We portrayed some Luftwaffe pilots as apolitical and not Nazis, which Hollywood people we were dealing with refused to believe existed, and the German backers refused to believe Hitler said to Hartmann and others in 1944 that the war was lost militarily ( he hoped his "wonder weapons" and a split between the western Allies and the USR would save Germany) and that Galland said in January 1945 to his jet fighter pilots, "We may have lost the war, but we can still prove to the world we are the best fighter pilots."
Yup. Sometimes the attitude is 'Don't confuse me with FACTS!'