The Duotrope Thread

I've been using the Grinder also. It is awesome. Site owners and managers have been incredibly responsive. As I get more and more subs out there, I NEED a way to keep track of them and my trusty notebook really wasn't going to cut it for much longer.lol The Grinder has filled that need quite nicely. Don't know about Duotrope, never used it.

In case anyone is interested, I saw Duotrope post on Twitter that they are having a 1-month free promo right now:
https://duotrope.com/promo.aspx?pc=SCHOOL13

mrajotte said:

In case anyone is interested, I saw Duotrope post on Twitter that they are having a 1-month free promo right now:
https://duotrope.com/promo.aspx?pc=SCHOOL13

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Oh yeaaaa! I'm going to go submission crazy!

Nice! Thanks!

Project Deadlight said:

My feeling, as a subscriber, is that DT will be bust if they don't alter their business model. The stats are, as we all predicted, pretty much meaningless now. Reckon this free trial is the first sign...

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I agree.

I'm curious how this is all shaking out now that some time has passed. It looks as though Duotrope does the free month now and then.

I'm enjoying the Grinder. The guys running it do a phenomenal job. I agree with Fihr, seeing all the recent responses on the front page gives perspective on collecting rejections.

I hadn't used Duotrope much for a few years, although now that I'm keeping as many story subs out as possible, I miss the theme calendar.

Then there's the nagging concern that I might be missing something, an anthology or theme issue that might be a good fit for one of my more difficult-to-place stories...

I check Raylan's, Horror Tree, Dark Markets and the paying markets thread here regularly. There are still no signs of new life at The Gila Queen. http://gilaqueen.us/

Any other sources I might use to fill in the gaps? I write all forms of speculative fiction ranging from hard science fiction to dark fantasy and horror with forays into unclassified, crime, mystery and "literary"-- although having survived an urban MFA program that term still makes me twitch. I'm only watching for pro and semi-pro listings.

Any thoughts on how Duotrope is doing now?

I had only just started on Duotrope when they introduced the fees, and I couldn't give it up so soon after I'd discovered it.

I still think it's awesome. I'm still not quite sure why many people feel so strongly it should have remained free. We all believe that writers should be paid fairly for their work, so why not the people who maintain useful websites?

The Grinder is great. I also use The Review Review and EWR.

http://www.thereviewreview.net/magazines
http://www.everywritersresource.com/literarymagazines/

Honestly, I thought I'd miss Duotrope more than I have.

From what I hear DT is doing fine, but I haven't felt much of a need to go back to it. The Grinder is growing steadily and appears to have a much higher percentage of neo-pro writers, making its statistics more relevant to me than that other place.

Between Grinder, Ralan, here, and Twitter, I don't feel like I'm likely to miss out on anything I'd be willing to submit to.

Aislinn said:

I'm still not quite sure why many people feel so strongly it should have remained free. We all believe that writers should be paid fairly for their work, so why not the people who maintain useful websites?

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My problem wasn't with the fact that they wanted to charge for their service, but with their rates. The service they provide is *not* worth $50+ per year, in my opinion.

I used to donate $20/year to them, which is what their service is worth to me. I intend to make the same annual donation to The Grinder now.

alexshvartsman said:

From what I hear DT is doing fine, but I haven't felt much of a need to go back to it. The Grinder is growing steadily and appears to have a much higher percentage of neo-pro writers, making its statistics more relevant to me than that other place..

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That's interesting. I certainly classify Duotrope as 'self-education' expense, as opposed to an expense for a service that provides me with income. I'd be less willing to spend the $50 if it was coming out of my earnings as a writer (selling short stories at pro rates.) In a year or two I feel I'll know the markets a lot better, and then maybe I'll leave Duotrope, but for now it suits me well.

alexshvartsman said:

My problem wasn't with the fact that they wanted to charge for their service, but with their rates. The service they provide is *not* worth $50+ per year, in my opinion.

I used to donate $20/year to them, which is what their service is worth to me. I intend to make the same annual donation to The Grinder now.

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Yes, I read back through the thread and nearly deleted my comment, not wanting to inflame the issue again. I can see why people think $50 is too much (certainly from a writer's income).

It's helped me with my writing though, is a lot cheaper than any course, and I also still think about the people on the other side of the website. I don't know the people running Grinder but it must be an extreme labour of love. This may be one of the situations where the perceived value of the service provided is never going to seem enough to pay the people who provide it. (Quite a lot like writing itself - lucky we love it.)

I still like Duotrope, and feel they're worth the money. The Grinder doesn't seem to do poetry, so that lessens its usefulness to me personally.

I use both and think Alex is right that Grinder has more neo-pro writers on it. Sometimes that's useful to me, but with other markets where I've coming close to placing, I prefer Duotrope because the response times and personal rejection percentages are more in line with what I'm experiencing.

From what I can tell, Duotrope still shows significantly more responses than Grinder. I think Grinder has a strong SFF bent to it.

I'm getting enough value from Duotrope's response data that I will likely continue my subscription next year.

Poets & Writers database includes journals that accept poetry and non fiction (essay, memoir, creative non fiction, etc.) as well as fiction.

I also like the layout and design of the site. Easier on the eye and very comprehensive.

I wasn't willing to jump ship on Duo until seeing how the newer tracking databases, like The Grinder, held up over time. Fortunately, The Grinder seems to be doing well and has had a lot of writers using it for the short time it's been going.

I was also cautious about Duo. I did the month to month subscription for awhile to see how they would hold up after the mass exodus when they started charging their - admittedly high - rate. I subscribed for a year about 3 months ago as they seem to be doing well - plenty of folks stayed on and the statistics seemed to recover quickly after the change up. Since the Grinder is chugging along, and free (donation-based) is always nice, I may reconsider when my year is up.

Thanks for the informative responses, everyone.
Overall, given that most of what I'm sending out fits my favorite genres, the birth of the Grinder came about at an opportune time.

I'm glad everyone has been even-handed in the issues about Duotrope. We all have different preferences and priorities.

Aislinn, O J Cade, M H Lee & Eliza -- Glad Duotrope works well for you. I had a lot of fun with it back in the day, and it does cover a much wider range of markets. It's good to hear that the stats recovered.

Lady Macbeth -- Thanks for the links. I'll check those out.

Alex -- Interesting point about the number of neo-pros on Grinder. I get a kick out of seeing the acceptances for familiar names. BTW, thanks for the excellent editor interviews on your site. I hope you do more of them. Any tips for finding calls for submissions on Twitter?

Development Exec -- Good reminder about Poets & Writers.

This resolves my concern that I might miss something. For me, it's an advantage that the Grinder covers primarily the kinds of markets I'm most interested in. The service is well worth supporting with donations.

Batspan said:

Alex -- Interesting point about the number of neo-pros on Grinder. I get a kick out of seeing the acceptances for familiar names. BTW, thanks for the excellent editor interviews on your site. I hope you do more of them. Any tips for finding calls for submissions on Twitter?

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First, I definitely agree that The Grinder has a strong SF/F bend and a significant neo-pro presence. It might be less useful to folks writing other genres or poetry, I'll admit freely.

One of the most important elements for the Grinder to truly succeed is data. The more people are using it, the more reliable and accurate its data will be. I hope that those of you who are using Duotrope will consider uploading your results to the Grinder as well, as a means of helping other writers receive more accurate data. Also, this way you will already have your database loaded there for if and when you wish to make the switch.

In terms of finding submission calls on Twitter, it's all about following the active short fiction writers and editors. The word spreads very quickly of new magazines, anthologies, Kickstarter projects, etc.

Unless you are interested in token and non-paying projects, all worthwhile new markets are very easy to find -- they'll get talked about on here, will be posted on places like Ralan, and get a lot of buzz on Twitter and Facebook.

And thanks for your kind words about the interviews I've been posting, I definitely intend to continue doing them and invite any semipro and pro editors to contact me if they're launching new publications.

alexshvartsman said:

One of the most important elements for the Grinder to truly succeed is data. The more people are using it, the more reliable and accurate its data will be. I hope that those of you who are using Duotrope will consider uploading your results to the Grinder as well, as a means of helping other writers receive more accurate data. Also, this way you will already have your database loaded there for if and when you wish to make the switch.

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Great point. Thanks for your response to my Twitter question. I'm a latecomer to the social networking party.

Somehow I didn't hear about a novella call until about two weeks before the deadline. I dropped everything, but didn't make it. I did manage to write a complete first draft within two weeks.

Looks like the main thing is to check the best sources more often. I'm following presses, magazines, editors, writers and such as I find them in hopes of getting a jump on opportunities instead of sprinting after them.

I'll keep an eye out for your interviews. Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

Project Deadlight said:

What the heck is a neo-pro? Is that like a writer that earns pro-rates but also believes in the unrestricted freedom of market capitalism?

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Ha!

Neo-pro is a new(ish) professional writer. Someone who recently began selling to pro markets, maybe has a novel or two out. But not an established name yet.

If they happen to believe in the unrestricted freedom of market capitalism, that's just a bonus.