Exactly. Or adverbs and adjectives.
Just tools. And learning to use them is a necessity for any working writer.
Prologues
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Exactly. Or adverbs and adjectives.
Just tools. And learning to use them is a necessity for any working writer.
Me three.
You have to wonder if prologue-skippers would pick an arbitrary number and say, "I never read chapter seventeen of a book!"
Of course it's true you should start the story when the action kicks off, but sometimes...sometimes you need backstory, or an event from decades, centuries before that gives a little hint of what's to come (for example).
As to the length of a prologue...how long is a chapter? How long is a book? How long is a piece of string?
It's as long as it needs to be.
You have to wonder if prologue-skippers would pick an arbitrary number and say, "I never read chapter seventeen of a book!"
Of course it's true you should start the story when the action kicks off, but sometimes...sometimes you need backstory, or an event from decades, centuries before that gives a little hint of what's to come (for example).
As to the length of a prologue...how long is a chapter? How long is a book? How long is a piece of string?
It's as long as it needs to be.
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Exactly, Liam. I'm editing my manuscript and will end up deleting certain aspects of the prologue. The ONLY reason I added one was because an uber agent asked me to, but I ended up loving it, and so did my betas.
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Yeah, that sort of comment always baffled me too. "Skip" stuff the author chose to include in his/her book? Why? I may skim Acknowledgments or a Foreward, but I take a look at both. And I start the story where the author wanted me to. I sort of thought that was the point.
Beautifully put. And a perfect answer to so many questions about writing. Whatever the story needs in order to be told is what it should get, be that a prologue, an epilogue, short chapters, long chapters, adverbs, adjectives, shorthand dialogue (pop-culture, made-up stuff), or pretty much anything else.
If it serves the story, it should be there. If it doesn't, it shouldn't be.
And in my opinion, you're likely to write quite a few prologues that you later discard when you realize they aren't necessary.
All part of the learning process.
Nope, still gotta disagree.
Y'all really need to work with more hopeful newbies. Yes, I've seen where the story was divided into sections & each section had a prologue. Yes, I've seen where the Prologue... had a prologue. Oh, god, I've seen where each friggin' chapter had a prologue....
Like it or not, it's a crutch. It's a dressing on an inability to tell the story in a beginning-to-end manner. I don't intend to calumnise anyone who chooses to use the tool, but I do not agree that clinging grimly to a prologue is better much less necessary, & do indeed suggest that anyone making such a claim is saying that a broken leg is superior to its unbroken form because the plaster cast is an "improvement."
Y'all really need to work with more hopeful newbies. Yes, I've seen where the story was divided into sections & each section had a prologue. Yes, I've seen where the Prologue... had a prologue. Oh, god, I've seen where each friggin' chapter had a prologue....
Like it or not, it's a crutch. It's a dressing on an inability to tell the story in a beginning-to-end manner. I don't intend to calumnise anyone who chooses to use the tool, but I do not agree that clinging grimly to a prologue is better much less necessary, & do indeed suggest that anyone making such a claim is saying that a broken leg is superior to its unbroken form because the plaster cast is an "improvement."
I can only say that many of the best and most successful writers I've ever used had prologues in many of their novels. And they knew how to tell stories from beginning to end better that darned near anyone else on the planet.
I suspect you don't know what a real prologue is. If it can be part of chapter one, it isn't a true prologue. It's only a prologue if it's written in a manner, and set in the right time period, so that it can't be the chapter one.
It isn't a crutch at all, if used properly. It is, in fact, the best possible way of getting some information in a novel in the easiest, most reader friendly manner.
If you don't like prologues, you shouldn't write them. If you don't want to read them, you shouldn't read them. But it's nonsense to say a prologue is automatically a crutch, or that the legions of great, lasting, wonderful writers who have used them did so because they lacked the ability to properly tell a story from beginning to end.
A prologue is a tool, and in the hands of a good writer, it's a wonderful, useful, tool; one that adds to any novel.
What James said.
I have worked with newbies, and the thing is they do have to learn to use the tools. A writer who sticks something in front of something else (be that a chapter or a book) and calls it a prologue when it isn't one needs to learn that they've used a tool incorrectly.
But using a prologue is not using a crutch, and absolutely does not mean the writer cannot tell a story from beginning to end. Maybe that's true sometimes. Maybe it's even true a lot, when it comes to newbies.
However, blanket statements such as Prologues Are Bad or Prologues Are a Crutch just lead to confusion and the unfortunate idea that there are absolutes in writing fiction, Rules One Must Abide By In Order To Be Successful.
And there just aren't any, you know. Even Write a Good Story isn't an absolute, because we all know plenty of published books that ... well ... aren't.
Some writers are never going to use prologues. And that's okay. Some writers love them and use them well. That is also okay.
Whatever serves the story is okay.
James, I don't really thoroughly disagree with you at all.
And I can do so because of the caveats, the "except whens" that you attach to each statement, the "can be" asides.
CCat, because you chime in wholeheartedly with James, I gotta assume you're joining the "you're wrong but..." approach, unless there's some magic way to say "there's nothing at all wrong with prologues!" & fill in an invisible exception here&there.
My stance remains. If a story can be told as moving from point A through point B & ever onward to point M or Q or Z, why is it necessary to start out by locking the brakes & haranguing the passengers with "but first you need to know..." stuff? That has not been made at all clear. And, well, either you can riff on that theme, or you cannot -- if you can't then, yes, I suggest that "prologues are a Good Idea" is an untenable position.
And I can do so because of the caveats, the "except whens" that you attach to each statement, the "can be" asides.
CCat, because you chime in wholeheartedly with James, I gotta assume you're joining the "you're wrong but..." approach, unless there's some magic way to say "there's nothing at all wrong with prologues!" & fill in an invisible exception here&there.
My stance remains. If a story can be told as moving from point A through point B & ever onward to point M or Q or Z, why is it necessary to start out by locking the brakes & haranguing the passengers with "but first you need to know..." stuff? That has not been made at all clear. And, well, either you can riff on that theme, or you cannot -- if you can't then, yes, I suggest that "prologues are a Good Idea" is an untenable position.
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Anthony, there are times when perfectly good tools won't work in the wrong conditions. Your uncompromising stance towards prologues is purely ignorant. You can't just rule out one tool completely like that.
Besides, your idea of prologues is completely wrong. Who said, prologues can't be entertaining and move the story forward? Have you read every single prologue in the whole wide smucking world to know this? I doubt it.
Besides, your idea of prologues is completely wrong. Who said, prologues can't be entertaining and move the story forward? Have you read every single prologue in the whole wide smucking world to know this? I doubt it.
A writer who can't write a prologue when needed probably shouldn't be writing any other chapter of the book either.
BS: have you read such a representative number that you're able to make such a statement without being a weasel? or are you simply talking out your (to be polite) hat? Please, either add to the topic, or restrain yourself in public.
More generally, I'd also like to note that this area is for the discussion of Horror, not for overall Writing Philosophy 1-01. Neither is this area meant only for novels, but for novellas & short stories as well.
My feeling is that horror fiction requires engaging the reader viscerally. Like the "adventure" subgenres, horror simply doesn't work as well when you save up the viscerality for the surprise or "gotcha!" ending, therefore it seems wise to set out toward linearity of story ASAP.
Prologues & flashbacks & backfilling strike me as flavours of the same vegetable, & are close cousins of drive-by narration & "explanation" via exposition. These things push readers away from emotional involvement in the story, which kinda militates to disconnect the viscera. And if you do that, you're well along the way to creating failed horror.
I have yet to see a clear demo hereabouts as to why a prologue has been necessary to advance a story, much less as a general prescription within horror.
King has used prologues to good effect. The Dead Zone and The Dark Half are the first two I pulled from my shelves, and both have prologues that certainly, I would argue, serve the story. And both are intriguing enough to draw the reader in and involve them in the story. Ghost Story (Straub) has a prologue.
Are any of the prologues necessary to the story? I don't know. They serve the story. The author chose to include them in the story. I certainly didn't view them as out of place when I was reading each story.
I'm not advocating a "general prescription" for anything, as I thought I made crystal clear. What I'm saying is that writers have a toolbox, and should be free to pull out the tools they believe are necessary to tell their story. One of those tools is a prologue.
Like all the rest, it isn't inherently good or bad; how it's used determines that. And, yes, there are plenty of bad and unnecessary prologues out there. There are also plenty of good ones that serve the story. (See above.)
And why on earth would horror be different from any other genre in terms of involving the reader? Each genre certainly has its own conventions, its own reader expectations, but the last time I checked, "involving the reader" was pretty much an across-genre requirement.
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A weasel? Come now, I'm certainly no politician
I've certainly read enough novels, with and without prologues, to be a judge that some prologues are excellent and add to the story, and some are just plain wrong. However, I doubt you've read enough to apply some blanket statement.
I agree with Cheshire, horror is no different to any other genre in the need to engage the reader.
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Like it or not, we'll continue to disagree.
I'll will concede that prologues may be a crutch to those who can't use them effectively. We've all seen poor examples. No disagreement there. I do, however, think some prologues, such as that employed by Terry Brooks in Knight of the Word served a legit purpose. In the final analysis, this is the call of the reading masses. We can all host our opinions, but the reader will ultimately determine if any portion of a story is unnecessary chafe.
One final note: I'm not sure where anyone gets the notion that the pro-crowd in this thread is "clinging grimly" to any notion that prologues are a must have. I think it's been said (again, and again) that it's just another tool, and that tools can be be used to an advantage or disadvantage.
(And a gentle reminder to all that we should maintain a degree of civility in our discourses.
)
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My WIP has a prologue. It sets the stage for the entire novel, describing what is going on in the perpetrator's mind and why. Yet I never reveal who the perp is - in the prologue, that is. This is probably the darkest chapter in the book. But I thought it inappropriate to be chapter 1. Throughout the book, I sprinkle phrases used in the prologue. Feel free to blast away if you feel this is unnecessary or inappropriate. I'm open to suggestion as I approach the end of the first draft.
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J, the only real test of any bit of prose is, "does it work for the reader?"
Perhaps you might post the piece in the Share Your Work (SYW) forum and solicit feedback.
Liam, I'm considering that after I finish the first draft and after I complete some clean-up. Thanks.
Hey, Liam. Or anyone else in the know. Who exactly reads material on the Share Your Work forum? How much should one submit?
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I like prologues; if it's written well, if it's interesting enough, it really helps to set the stage for a good story. If it reads like a history lesson, I'm liable to fall asleep and forget about reading chapter one.
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I think much of AW visits SYW from time to time, though many read the posts without commenting. Many, however, will leave feedback when the poster asks for comments on a specific element.
I think scenes are the most common post, but I've seen every length from short scenes to full chapters. You may want to solicit input from Maestro and Veinglory, the two moderators, about the best length to post.
If you're looking for feedback on your prologue, you may want to post it and the first portion of your first chapter. Ask readers if the prologue works for them and if they think you're making a smooth transition from one to the other.
Hope this helps.
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When I wrote my first mystery, I did it with a prologue. It was only about 1500 words and I did not reveal the murderer. The first review I read said that the book was good, but "slow to get started." I have never started a book with a prologue since.
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While I defend the use of prologues by skilled writers, and I'll always read them until the writer gives me a reason to stop, I don't like to employ them.
Well, I’ll say this, my first mss had a prologue and I was annihilated by other writers for it. Not only did they hate having a prologue, they despised the fact that it was a dream sequence. Oh boy, two no-no’s in a row.
Anywho, after six or seven re-writes and nine rejections, I decided to backburner the story until later. I still think the story has great merit (Who doesn’t feel that way about their first…lol) and will try to sell it later, but hopefully as a later work. It posed several disadvantages for a first-timer sale, one of which was the dang thing coming in at over 110,000 words. That and it’s a builder story - most of the action takes place after the first 60-70 pages. Very hard sell to say the least.
Not the latest one though. There isn’t a prologue in sight for this one and it’s a barnburner. I made each chapter fall under 2000 words and it’s in the guise of a true Thriller with quick choppy chapters and fast action pace throughout, much like a Lee Child book.
As for the prologue thing: some do it very well, and some stories require it if you ask me. Pick up a Clive Cussler novel (One of his earlier works please, the latter suck to high heaven) and see how he does it.
Kerry
Anywho, after six or seven re-writes and nine rejections, I decided to backburner the story until later. I still think the story has great merit (Who doesn’t feel that way about their first…lol) and will try to sell it later, but hopefully as a later work. It posed several disadvantages for a first-timer sale, one of which was the dang thing coming in at over 110,000 words. That and it’s a builder story - most of the action takes place after the first 60-70 pages. Very hard sell to say the least.
Not the latest one though. There isn’t a prologue in sight for this one and it’s a barnburner. I made each chapter fall under 2000 words and it’s in the guise of a true Thriller with quick choppy chapters and fast action pace throughout, much like a Lee Child book.
As for the prologue thing: some do it very well, and some stories require it if you ask me. Pick up a Clive Cussler novel (One of his earlier works please, the latter suck to high heaven) and see how he does it.
Kerry
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I have two comments on the prologue thing -
In my first novel (which is published), I used a prologue. The mc's father was brutally slain when she was young. The prologue showed his last hours. The remainder of the book deals with the daughter and her journey to discover the hidden truths of what really happened. I couldn't have written it effectively any other way. Could I have left that part out? Maybe, but I think it set the tone for the rest of the book. I also think it allowed the reader to be on the 'inside' and see something the mc didn't.
Subsequent works I have written do not have a prologue - it just isn't necessary.
I personally know Twilight Angel - the one who asked the question in the first place - and I know the piece in question. We've discussed ways in which she can use the prologue information elsewhere, and it seems that she is mucking with different formats to see if the information could be presented elsewhere.
My two cents - okay maybe this would qualify as four cents worth.
In my first novel (which is published), I used a prologue. The mc's father was brutally slain when she was young. The prologue showed his last hours. The remainder of the book deals with the daughter and her journey to discover the hidden truths of what really happened. I couldn't have written it effectively any other way. Could I have left that part out? Maybe, but I think it set the tone for the rest of the book. I also think it allowed the reader to be on the 'inside' and see something the mc didn't.
Subsequent works I have written do not have a prologue - it just isn't necessary.
I personally know Twilight Angel - the one who asked the question in the first place - and I know the piece in question. We've discussed ways in which she can use the prologue information elsewhere, and it seems that she is mucking with different formats to see if the information could be presented elsewhere.
My two cents - okay maybe this would qualify as four cents worth.
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