DFW High School Miscarriage = Crime?

heza · Sep 3, 2014

Okay, so this is a story from last week, and it's been resolved, but I still wanted to hear some reactions about the law enforcement response. It made me really uncomfortable. Is it just me?

Authorities are investigating after they say a human fetus was found in a girls restroom Friday afternoon at Woodrow Wilson High School in East Dallas.

The reporter says the police "swarmed" the high school. To me, this seems like something that could have been handled by, like, one cop or something, considering there was no imminent threat to anyone. But it's a "crime scene" and she's a "suspect," rather than, you know... a victim.

I'm sharing this link because I feel like it provides more of the student/parent reaction and hints at the magnitude of the police response.

Freshman Nathan Padron was practicing on the athletic fields when helicopters started hovering over the school, he says. Several police cars arrived, and the students started to suspect they might be in danger, he says.

Helicopters? Really? Granted, I don't see helicopters mentioned in any of the major media articles, but talking to some other people about it, they also claim they saw articles talking about helicopters. If true, this is this an extreme reaction to the circumstances, right?

His sister, senior Alyssia Borrego says there were more police and media here today than there were after a shooting that happened across the street from the school last fall.

It's an opinion, so there very well may have been a greater police response than she's remembering, or they're paraphrasing her incorrectly, but if that's true, that also just seems appalling.

The other thing that bothered me as that every article I saw said the police were reviewing surveillance footage to determine who the mother was. That really makes me uncomfortable for some reason.

I suppose because I feel like it's extremely voyeuristic. A probably very scared girl had a sudden, horrifying, embarrassing medical emergency and didn't want anyone to know about it... so of course, they planned to track her down, likely air the footage on newstations, encourage other students to point her out. I feel like they were assuming the worst and then, trying to drill down into something just really, really private.

Another article I'm lost at the moment quoted a mother who said when she arrived at the school and noticed the police presence, the officer she spoke to wouldn't tell her whether the children were in danger and said to "go away."

Cyia · Sep 3, 2014

The choppers were media, most likely. When a police response is called to a school, especially with mention of human remains or "a body" being found, then the media will literally swarm. If possible, they'll get to the scene in conjunction with or before the police.

I'm not excusing the circus, but without examining the remains, and assuming they actually did look like a full-term-baby, there would be no way for a casual observer to know the infant hadn't been born alive and abandoned. There's also the necessity to track down the mother to make sure she wasn't in need of medical attention. Birth can carry any number of complications.

The first response should have been BOTH police and medical authorities.

robjvargas · Sep 3, 2014

Cyia said:
The choppers were media, most likely. When a police response is called to a school, especially with mention of human remains or "a body" being found, then the media will literally swarm. If possible, they'll get to the scene in conjunction with or before the police.

I'm not excusing the circus, but without examining the remains, and assuming they actually did look like a full-term-baby, there would be no way for a casual observer to know the infant hadn't been born alive and abandoned. There's also the necessity to track down the mother to make sure she wasn't in need of medical attention. Birth can carry any number of complications.

The first response should have been BOTH police and medical authorities.

You beat me to all three points. Unless (perhaps) police had information that they knew was feasible of someone running from the scene. But even that's a huge stretch of the imagination to make it fit with the descriptions.

I suppose I could speculate other things, too, but more likely, just yeah to everything Cyia said.

kikazaru · Sep 3, 2014

"they are reviewing video and will speak with teachers and students in hopes of finding something that will lead them to the “suspect” — he did use the word suspect, and when asked if she would be charged with a crime once she was located, he would not elaborate.

He does say that the best thing for the woman to do would be to come forward and explain the situation to police."

It sounds like excessive diligence by the police to me, but the whole situation depends on the development of the fetus and whether or not it was viable. If it was full term and the mother deliberately allowed it to die in the toilet then I can see that an investigation should be held. However, I suspect that it wasn't full term or they (staff and classmates) would certainly realize that a pregnant student left to go to the bathroom and either didn't come back to class or came back much slimmer and they would know who it was. Police presence was certainly excessive since they don't say how the fetus died, and since they are calling this young woman a "suspect" I would think that she would not willingly come forward to explain herself.

Prozyan · Sep 3, 2014

kikazaru said:
However, I suspect that it wasn't full term or they (staff and classmates) would certainly realize that a pregnant student left to go to the bathroom and either didn't come back to class or came back much slimmer and they would know who it was.

You are basing this conclusion on false assumptions. There are literally thousands of teen births each year in which no one outside the mother had any idea there was even a pregnancy.

There are cases where a pregnant teen left an event, such as a school dance, went to the restroom, gave birth, discarded the infant, and returned to the dance with no one none the wiser.

Plot Device · Sep 3, 2014

Young lady, whoever you are:

1) Do not call the police. Call a lawyer instead.

2) Tell the lawyer everything, including the identify of the father, and how far along (to the best of your knowledge) the pregnancy was.

3) Don't imagine your "secret" wasn't guessed at by others. Even if you were just 5 months along and the child spontaneously aborted on you, your female friends have their hunches, and they WILL rat you out, especially if you left traces of blood anywhere on your clothes that they would have seen after the fact. So lawyer up fast before the cops come a'knockin'.

Jack Asher · Sep 3, 2014

Plot Device said:
Young lady, whoever you are:

1) Do not call the police. Call a lawyer instead.

Getting a lawyer is never the wrong thing to do if you think you might have committed a crime.

robjvargas · Sep 3, 2014

Jack Asher said:
Getting a lawyer is never the wrong thing to do if you think you might have committed a crime.

Thinking that one has committed a crime is no prerequisite to exercising one's constitutional right to legal representation. One could be utterly innocent of any crime and still be right to consult an attorney, and to have one present in all questioning.

kuwisdelu · Sep 3, 2014

Jack Asher said:
Getting a lawyer is never the wrong thing to do if ~~you~~ someone else thinks you might have committed a crime.

Had to make a small edit.

Cyia · Sep 3, 2014

Getting a lawyer is never the wrong thing to do if YOU HAVE BEEN ACCUSED of a crime.

Guilt or innocence doesn't matter at the point you look for a lawyer; their job is to protect your rights. Both the innocent and the guilty have rights; it's at the point of accusation that those rights come under attack.

backslashbaby · Sep 3, 2014

That's disgusting that they'd use the term 'suspect' when in most obvious crime cases, they've gone to using 'person of interest'.

I understand that the actual crime of killing a newly-born baby does happen and it might look vaguely like this (depending on the number of weeks into it she miscarried), but there really are stillborn babies, too. Police have no idea about a crime committed with a full-term baby until test results come back, much less a miscarriage.

I don't care if she did hide her pregnancy (theoretically). A miscarriage is a miscarriage, and it can happen in school as easily as anywhere else. Give these poor girls a break and understand explanations like that next time when investigating these things, cops and school officials.

I usually feel awful for most of the real killing-involved ones, too. I think they are most often guilty and should be punished, but it has to be a 'crime of passion' more intense and scary than, say, shooting your wife because of finding her in bed with a lover. I mean, labor is no joke.

In any case, equating all the various situations is pretty sexist, imho. A miscarriage is not illegal. At all.

heza · Sep 3, 2014

Cyia said:
The first response should have been BOTH police and medical authorities.

I suppose that's part of what bothered me. I didn't read anything in the articles about emergency services like an ambulance responding. And there didn't seem to be any concern for the girl's safety and health. I.e., no one said (in as far as what was reported), "Please come forward if you have any information so we can get this student medical attention." It all seemed very slanted toward, "... so we can arrest her."

I wish they had handled this much more sensitively.

Plot Device said:
Young lady, whoever you are:

Just so you know, I don't think it's a concern anymore. It's been confirmed it was a miscarriage and the police have deemed it no longer a crime, from what I can tell, and no charges will be filed. From what was said, it sounds like they've already talked to the girl.

Tazlima · Sep 3, 2014

That poor, poor girl.

StormChord · Sep 3, 2014

The tone of this case seemed to be a lot less "this is terrible, get this girl some medical attention and help" and more "WHERE'S THE PERP? COME OUT WITH YA HANDS UP, YA BABY-KILLER!"

Don · Sep 4, 2014

StormChord said:
The tone of this case seemed to be a lot less "this is terrible, get this girl some medical attention and help" and more "WHERE'S THE PERP? COME OUT WITH YA HANDS UP, YA BABY-KILLER!"

That seems to be the way the state rolls these days. Innocent until proven guilty is such an antiquated concept, and obviously the founders had no understanding of modern times. Adjustments have to be made.

veinglory · Sep 4, 2014

If the baby was near full term they might also have considered abduction and murder by a third party to be on the table.

Devil Ledbetter · Sep 4, 2014

kikazaru said:
However, I suspect that it wasn't full term or they (staff and classmates) would certainly realize that a pregnant student left to go to the bathroom and either didn't come back to class or came back much slimmer and they would know who it was.

Birthgivers usually aren't noticeably slimmer immediately after the fact.

Prozyan said:
You are basing this conclusion on false assumptions. There are literally thousands of teen births each year in which no one outside the mother had any idea there was even a pregnancy.

There are cases where a pregnant teen left an event, such as a school dance, went to the restroom, gave birth, discarded the infant, and returned to the dance with no one none the wiser.

It even happens when the mother herself doesn't know she's pregnant.

veinglory said:
If the baby was near full term they might also have considered abduction and murder by a third party to be on the table.

If it really was near full term, I hope they wouldn't be referring to it as a fetus or a miscarriage. Death at near full term is called stillbirth, and labor close to but ahead of full term is called pre-term labor. In fact, I think it's deemed stillbirth after 25 weeks.

So if a stillborn baby was found, by all means an investigation is called for. If it was only a fetus, I don't know what they got so excited about. Something like 1 in 5 pregnancies naturally end in miscarriage.

dfwtinman · Sep 4, 2014

Back before global deforestation, this would have happened out it the woods, far from help-but farther from detection. The response if discovered? No cops at all. But a goodly portion of the community would have held the girl up to ridicule and humiliation as a warning to other teens. Oh, the good old days.

Devil Ledbetter · Sep 4, 2014

dfwtinman said:
Back before global deforestation, this would have happened out it the woods, far from help-but farther from detection. The response if discovered? No cops at all. But a goodly portion of the community would have held the girl up to ridicule and humiliation as a warning to other teens. Oh, the good old days.

What? Girls were regularly married in their teens right up until a couple of decades ago.

backslashbaby · Sep 4, 2014

Have they said yet how many weeks along it was? Because the girl really might have planned to tell adults in her life, her boyfriends, friends, etc.

I would think that having a miscarriage in a public place where there is basically a manhunt afterwards is freaky enough to keep a secret you might not have otherwise.

Lillith1991 · Sep 4, 2014

Devil Ledbetter said:
What? Girls were regularly married in their teens right up until a couple of decades ago.

This is a false, but well known "fact." How young someone married depended on time in history, place, and where they were in the social hierarchy. Nobel born or royal men and women married younger than their common counterparts. Even within the US how young a woman married depended on location, time in US history etc. The past in regards to marriage isn't a one size fits all thing, where up until the last few decades normal women and men were getting married in their early to mid teens.

Anyway, in regard to the OP. I'm appalled by how this is being handled. It has the vibe so far of the officials involved treating it as a search for "a damn Satan worshiping baby killer." It's beyond unprofessional and disgusting to boot.

DFW High School Miscarriage = Crime?

heza

Cyia

Rewriting My Destiny

robjvargas

kikazaru

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Prozyan

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Plot Device

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Jack Asher

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robjvargas

kuwisdelu

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Cyia

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backslashbaby

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heza

Tazlima

StormChord

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Don

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veinglory

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Devil Ledbetter

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dfwtinman

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Devil Ledbetter

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backslashbaby

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Lillith1991

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DFW High School Miscarriage = Crime?

Rewriting My Destiny

Benefactor Member

Are you one, Herbert?

A woman said to write like a man.

Differently rational

Revolutionize the World

Rewriting My Destiny

~~~~*~~~~

Allegedly Gullible

All Living is Local

volitare nequeo

Come on you stranger, you legend,

Cubic Zirconia in the rough

Come on you stranger, you legend,

~~~~*~~~~

The Hobbit-Vulcan hybrid

*

*