The Next Circle of Hell

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Calla Lily

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Edited to add Dawn Miller's excellent chart for analyzing our conflicting feelings when on sub:

Book Sucks
Editors all have the same issue
Editor(s) point out major plot issue
Editor(s) all question voice
Editor(s) eyeballs explode after 1st page
Editor(s) tell agent to never sub again
You found your agent at 7-11 or Wa-Wa

Book Does Not Suck
Editor opinions are all over the place
Minor or no plot issue
Voice is questioned by 1 editor
Editors made it all the way through
Editor still loves agent
Your agent is awesome


I didn't post this in the Coffee House because I don't want to make those of us still seeking agents to look at possible future "meh-ness" while they're in their current "meh-ness."

Is it just me, or do rejections from editors drop you into deeper dumps than rejections from agents? I'm thinking it's because the "published" milestone is thatmuchcloser. My agent's gotten form rejects and rejects with reasons on both my books (2 of each; there's lots more territory to cover). (I'm not counting the ones that passed on the query alone; I figure that comes with the territory forever. :tongue

I'm feeling like a miserable poop-head--and my agent is the one with the great attitude on this! She's already got a pub lined up to sub to on Monday morning.

Trouble is, I AM counting my blessings. I KNOW it's awesome to have an agent--and I know how long and hard I worked to get one. I just feel like I did back when I was acting--losing the coveted part because my hair was wrong, or I was an alto rather than a soprano, or because I didn't have enough of a pseudo family resemblance with the already-cast parts.

Yeah; I know. I'm headed for the wine now. :e2drunk:
 
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triceretops

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I understand this one completely because I'm going through it, too. What's devastating about it is that we're at the end of the road--this is the final showdown--the gunfight in the middle of the street at high noon. We have a pro agent, submitting what he/she thinks is top notch pro work to a top notch pro editor. So how could you not feel the devastating punch in the gut when Warner or Bantam or Penguin passes on your manuscript? On the one hand, you're grateful and extremely humbled to be there. On the other hand, you realize that this is it for the big houses--there will be no more shots at this, and once the rejections start arriving, the panic sets in. You begin to wonder just how long your agent will keep up their enthusiasm for this book if they're continually clobbered over the head with nos. Then you think "My gawd, I better have another book ready if this one bites the dust."

And yes, I really wasn't expecting the rejections on the pitch/query, whether it was email, phone, lunch, or hard mail contacts. My agent does get them. And when I hear the houses who won't even read the manuscript, it really give me a case of nausea. Even though my agent has even reworked my query until it's super shiny, along with his pitch, it is not uncommon for Ace, Avalon, Harper or any of the other biggies to say "Naw, we really don't need to see that."

I've got five fulls out right now with the majors and I'm really stewing about it. After those five are down, we go for another five. Then again. Chunks. After that, I'm not too sure. It only means that if I've received enough critical feedback from the majors (when it's all said and done), then I'll rewrite and send the book to the medium and small houses on my own, as a last-ditch effort. Strangely enough, I've had three last-ditch efforts, and they've all sold--two to a medium--one to a small.

Tri
 

triceretops

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Hey, believe me when I say I'm a little bit uncomfortable in here, too. I feel much better in the HOP, and that ain't the House of Pancakes, bub. After 19 years of this crap (uh, business), I've earned my House of Pain badge. It's always been my home.

An interesting fact: After writing 18 books during an off an on writing career that last for 19 years, five of those books sold. During that time I have had nearly four years of agent representation, split between two really great agents.

I was the one who sold those books. Not the agents. I did bring my recent agent in on the azz end of my lastest sale, and he DID imporve my rates and rights on the order of 300%.

Alas, I am still waiting for that major sale via an agent. I'm at the point where I've wondered if I've pulled the wool over those agent's eyes.

Tri
 

rugcat

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Is it just me, or do rejections from editors drop you into deeper dumps than rejections from agents?
It's not just you. The very first editor my agent submitted to replied in less than a week, saying basically, well, it's ok, but it didn't really interest me all that much.

I had believed in my heart that once I cleared all the hurdles, the first editor who saw the final ms would be eager to buy it, so that particular rejection was a cold slap in the reality face.

I was lucky; I did find an editor who loved it. But as I've said before, unless you're a simply astounding talent, it's basically still a crapshoot and it's out of your control. I know it's hard, but you can't take it personally and you can't let it get you down.
 

lkp

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Callalily, I soooo feel your pain and I am very glad you started this thread because I hate moaning about editors rejecting submissions in front of people who are still waiting to get agents. Makes me feel like a whiner. ::passes more popcorn to the lurkers::

Getting rejected at this stage does seem worse to me than the agent search was. I think that was because my current agent asked to see a partial only a week after my first queries. Though it took another nine months and many rejections from other agents before she signed me, I could cope with that because she was always my first choice, and she was still in the game. Also there are so many more agents to query than there are imprints to submit to. And I feel like each rejection disappoints two people instead of just one.

But I still have hope. Good luck everyone!
 

Will Lavender

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Sorry to hear about this, calalilly.

The only thing you can do is keep the chin up, keep working, keep hoping. The work was good enough to excite an agent; that means there's a good chance that there's an editor out there for you as well.
 

Calla Lily

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:Hug2: For everyone.

Especially the lurkers--I have dessert set up on the coffee table for all of us. Raspberry trifle. We need it!

I also thought that once my agent subbed me, wham! there'd be a sale.

A large (eek) house has had my thriller for months, asked for a different opening (I did that) and now it's up one rung in an asst. publisher's hands. Gads, I'm stressing over that.

My agent subs in batches of 4, then when one has rejected, subs to a new one. She has 2 new subs for the thriller and 2 for the mystery come Monday.

And I'm writing a completely new book now--but when (never if. Never) she sells, I'll drop it and work onthe sequel to whichever one she sold. So I'm ready and waiting and eager and all those wide-eyed things good writers are supposed to be.

But it's not easy. Silly of me--I don't know why I thought it would be. :crazy:
 

Rolling Thunder

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All it takes is for -one- to break through. Then, I'll bet, the other works that were passed over will garner new interest.

Be patient, even though it's hard.
 

Susan B

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I know what you mean, callalilly! For reasons other folks have already mentioned, these "higher level" rejections hit harder. You can imagine the "end of the line" coming a whole lot sooner than when you are still querying agents.

I think it's important to talk honestly with your agent about what happens after a certain number of rejections by the major commercial houses (which most agents are naturally going to target first.) If you are both happy to consider placing a book at a smaller but solid independent trade publisher, or at a university press, then you continue to have a number of options. (You, the author, can also take a more active role in finding and even making the initial approach with some of these presses.)

Fortunately, after a series of regretful declines from some of the bigger houses (too specialized/too small an audience) my agent and I independently reached the same conclusion: my book would be a better fit at a university press. In fact, when someone recommended Mississippi to me, it turned out my agent had previously placed a book there, with the person who eventually became my editor. I have to believe the connection helped. And so far, I am having a great experience with them.

So don't lose heart! We'll be looking to hear good news from you very soon!

Susan
 
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zahra

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I had an agent once. I don't think he was trying to place the screenplays I had specced, but was using them as calling-cards.

The only piece of bad news I had during that time (I was trying out as a writer on a TV series) came from the producers rather than him. That meant I had to tell him the bad news! How's that fair?

Yeah, getting an agent is a great nod to your talent, and it's wonderful having someone in your corner, and, on a practical note, they can get you read, but there will still be battles and disappointments and loss of confidence.

The thing I wish I had known when I had an agent was that you still have to do most of the networking and schmoozing and knocking on doors yourself.
 

Marian Perera

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I know what you mean. My manuscript has racked up three rejections from editors so far, and the last two have been very nice. But they're still rejections, and sometimes I wonder, "What happens if they ALL say nice things and reject it?" There's five more editors to go in the first round of submissions, and I don't think my agent is going to give up too easily on it, but still. :|

Then I scold myself for being cynical/ungrateful/a worrywart/all of the above and try not to think about it.
 

MsJudy

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*hiding in the corner, chanting: don't think about that. write the book. don't think about that. just write the book.*

at least there's trifle...
 

popmuze

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Don't forget stage three, when the book is published and you wait to see if anyone reviews it and if anyone buys it and if anyone likes it as much as you do.

Meanwhile, I'm at stage two with my latest, with the book out at about eight places and three of them clocking in this week with rejections. All three had wonderful things to say in the sentence before the...BUT....

The thing that troubles me is that in two of those places the BUT went on to say they never published books like this. I'm hoping my agent is sending the book to the right places to at least give it a chance.

On the other hand, I'm looking at this in the same way I did when I was looking for an agent. When you start getting excellent rejections you begin to have a feeling that the book is inching closer to the ultimate acceptance.
 

Calla Lily

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I keep having daydreams of sitting in yet another HS concert or at yet another soccer game and one of the other parents is reading my book. *sigh*

and worrying about snarky reviews, but I've trained myself for years not to borrow trouble, and the training works...most of the time.

Thanks for the camaraderie, everyone.
 

Marian Perera

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I keep having daydreams of sitting in yet another HS concert or at yet another soccer game and one of the other parents is reading my book.

People at work ask me what I do with my time, or why I don't go out on the weekends or go out of town on vacations. If I were published, I could tell them. :)
 
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Horseshoes

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Huh. These are not bad together.
*Slurps from wine begged from callalily, munches half a donut caged from soccermom.*

My second ag was JVNLA. I was purt durn sure we'd have a sale and live HEA.
We dint. 2 years, about 30 subs in a year, got close, got close, dint sell. She let me go.

On Ag #3. Good guy, but ooooh, I'm a jaded one.

Hang in there Calla. But do keep the wine handy. I like red.
 
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Marian Perera

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My second ag was JVNLA. I was purt durn sure we'd have a sale and live HEA.
We dint. 2 years, about 30 subs in a year, got close, got close, dint sell. She let me go.

I've sometimes thought that if only I'd managed to get a really prominent agent, my manuscript would have sold fast. Guess that's not the case.
 
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