sex scenes in fantasy

Shadow_Ferret said:

Really? I guess I've lived in ignorance, I didn't think there was sex in High Fantasy either.

And thanks, Idiots, for warning me away from those two.

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You should be warned away from those two anyway, at least the Goodkind. I find GRRM boring, and haven't read much of his work.

As for sex in general, I write fantasy without sex, mainly because I don't see that sex adds anything to a story. It has no dialog, if done right, and precious little thinking, so I don't see how it moves a story along. I don't like violence much either, although there's more scope there for useful material. I had a duel at one point, which served a purpose, among others showing my character holding a burning log without injury. Had it just been mayhem I wouldn't have bothered.

H Rider Haggard?

What a name.

Shadow_Ferret said:

Really? I guess I've lived in ignorance, I didn't think there was sex in High Fantasy either.

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Isn't that the difference between High Fantasy and Low Fantasy? High Fantasy is PG and Low Fantasy is R? I would have said that by definition High Fantasy doesn't have sex in it.

Which is not to say that there is anything wrong with sex in fantasy. I think that the problem that I see here is that I don't think that mainstream fantasy is the same thing as High Fantasy, and I think y'all are using those terms interchangeably.

Phoebe H said:

Isn't that the difference between High Fantasy and Low Fantasy? High Fantasy is PG and Low Fantasy is R? I would have said that by definition High Fantasy doesn't have sex in it.

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Wikipedia on High fantasy:

These stories are generally serious in tone and often epic in scope, dealing with themes of grand struggle against supernatural, evil forces.

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The same onLow fantasy:

Though a very vague term, some features that may indicate low fantasy are: downplaying of epic or dramatic aspects, de-emphasising magic, real-world settings, realism, cynical storytelling and dark fantasy

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High and Low Fantasy are settings more than genres. I've read High Fantasy with sex scenes (Imajica (sp?) by Clive Barker). I've read High Fantasy without sex scenes (LotR, Riftwar saga).

Both types worked.

DisenchantedDoc said:

If you're curious about the offending scenes (which are 1-2 paragraphs, each), PM me and I can email them to you -- I'm not sure if they're appropriate to post here, after all.

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One or two paragraphs isn't quite the same as eight-page, detailed love scenes that popularize romance novels. I read a paranormal thriller with a single paragraph love scene, that basically consisted of (paraphrasing): They fell into bed together, kicking things to the floor; he was gentle because she was wounded, and later, as they lay naked together....

As for posting your paragraphs, I'd try Share Your Work. If you believe they are fairly tame, slap an Adult Content warning in the header and put it in SF/F. If it's graphic, you'll need proof of age to post in the Erotica SYW subforum.

Gray Rose said:

Sex scenes in any type of fantasy are perfectly fine. I don't think you can go too far with those - if anything, fantasy tends to be more tolerant of taboo themes than any other genre - GRRM, for example, gets away with underage sex and incest.

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Don't forget throwing kids out of a window.

But GRRM never says that these are palatable things. The incest issue is a huge topic that comes back to haunt those characters and their family. And part of the underage sex has to do with the society the characters were in -- I believe Dany got married when she was what, 13? And separately, her family had come from a long tradition of brothers and sisters marrying, to keep the bloodlines pure (if I remember correctly). For their society -- which, might I add, isn't reflective of society across the entire world -- these attitudes weren't merely acceptable; they were commonplace.

GRRM does a breathtaking job of depicting a multicultural world, complete with differing sociopolitical and religious views. Amazing stuff.

ChaosTitan said:

One or two paragraphs isn't quite the same as eight-page, detailed love scenes that popularize romance novels. I read a paranormal thriller with a single paragraph love scene, that basically consisted of (paraphrasing): They fell into bed together, kicking things to the floor; he was gentle because she was wounded, and later, as they lay naked together....

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Hmm. Maybe it's just me, but that isn't a sex scene. I mean it implies sex, but when I think of sex scenes I guess, as I said, I'm thinking the whole Laurell K. Hamilton gets you so aroused you have to take a cold shower type of sex scene.

CynicalRyan said:

Somehow, I doubt the covers are actual 1880s examples.

Though, I get your point.

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Sex in stories is not a modern monopoly. The only thing more compulsively mystified than sex is people's ideas about sex. People seem to need to believe that "in the past" (ie when their parents conceived them) sex was not what it is now. The past could even be defined as that place where people had sex in a way that we cannot properly imagine. And yet of course, sex is in most stories in one way or another...even from those not-properly imaginable "periods" such as the faux-Medieval realm of Fantasy or the 1950s or the 1880s. Moreover, even Ferret seems to like sex in his stories; he just doesn't like to call it sex.

There seem to be two purely semantic views:
If I like the encounter as portrayed, I call it sex....versus
IF I don't like the encounter as portrayed, I call it sex. It seems very arbitrary to me and the problem isn't "what is sex"? But "What do I call what I like or don't like?"

Higgins said:

Sex in stories is not a modern monopoly.

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Reading Greek myths should disabuse anyone of that notion, yes.

Higgins said:

Moreover, even Ferret seems to like sex in his stories; he just doesn't like to call it sex.

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I'll call it sex if I see it as sex. I guess I have a very narrow view of what "sex" is and I equate it to "Penthouse Letters." Personally, I don't want to read Penthouse Letters when I'm reading a fantasy book.

Anything less graphic is just a romantic scene.

sex scenes in any genre can be essential or gratuitous
we live in a world of over stimulation its difficult for many people to have patience for delayed gratification in their own lives let alone in their escape from it.
sex scenes in a book still need to offer more than auditory titilation i thought the idea was that the emotion of the event(the kind of sex your characters are having)supports the intimacy or conflict the characters have with one another and the world you created for them.
just a thought

DisenchantedDoc said:

so Ferret, you read the scenes in question -- too graphic for fatasy?

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No. Not at all. If your friend read those passages and complained then he really has issues. I saw nothing to complain about with those.

Good stuff.

If you put a warning, perhaps in the thread title, then you hugely reduce the possibility of offending anyone. Those who don't want to read it will be warned and have the opportunity to not open the thread. Which is why I prefer warnings in the thread title when they're warranted. Saves everyone time and frustration.

...and I'm saying this as a prude who doesn't want to read sex scenes. Seriously, if there's a warning, I won't go there, and I'm not offended. Everyone's happy.

If it belongs, keep it. If not, delete it.

Standard rule for anything in writing