The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

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rekirts

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I have to agree with Susan and Lloyd here. There is some benefit to PA authors and potential PA authors seeing what sort of writing they publish. That alone would have a profound impact on me if I were considering publishing with PA. I would run like heck!

No disrespect is meant to the poster, and I wish him the best.
 

Sheryl Nantus

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rekirts said:
I have to agree with Susan and Lloyd here. There is some benefit to PA authors and potential PA authors seeing what sort of writing they publish. That alone would have a profound impact on me if I were considering publishing with PA. I would run like heck!

No disrespect is meant to the poster, and I wish him the best.

me three... or four, I do believe.

look, there's NOTHING wrong with writing therapy books and Lord knows enough people have been helped through the trauma and dealing with the aftermath by writing out their trials and tribulations. But at one seminar I attended, the agent featured was blunt and honest when she stated that memoirs and abuse stories don't sell because there's SO many of them. Which is not to diminish the horror story of those who have endured abuse, but that it's usually a very hard sell because most of them have been done, and done to the nth degree.

PublishAmerica ABUSES these people by taking their stories and patting them on the head, saying that their writing is perfect and without flaw and prints it up for them to purchase at an outrageous price. These writers would be better served putting the money into a cheap college course or a few used English textbooks than purchasing their own story back from PA and then trying to push it on family and friends.

And, yes - if you expect to be taken seriously as a writer, be prepared to be critiqued in public when you POST parts of your work in public. The content in this case isn't the problem, the delivery is.

so it goes...
 

Canada James

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Sheryl Nantus said:
And, yes - if you expect to be taken seriously as a writer, be prepared to be critiqued in public when you POST parts of your work in public. The content in this case isn't the problem, the delivery is.

But this isn't the thread to critique PA author's work. This is a place to discuss PA's business practices, and if we want to prove that PA will publish a bad book as fast as a good book all we need to do is point to Purple Pony or Atlanta Nights.

The PA authors have been through (or will go through) enough without us adding salt to the wound.

C. James
 

Canada James

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Sheryl Nantus said:
my point, which you missed in the post, was that PA ABUSES these people a second time by publishing their traumatic stories and then taking money from them for it.

I got your point. I still don't think the way to point it out is by critiqing these people's books in this thread.

That's my point.

Cj
 

aruna

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LloydBrown said:
Who cares if he's sincere? A more pertinenent question is "can he write well?" or "will he sell any books?" Having read his excepts and not just a message board post, I'd say ix-nay on oth-bay.

.

This is the guy who boasted (!) on Shelagh's forum that he had sent off the first draft of his manuscript to PA without any revision whatsoever, and it got accepted "as is". He then went into a rant about "PA bashers", and gave us a dressing down for not recognising that he and other PAlers were "published authors" as good as any other authors out there. It was in answer to that rant of his that I posted this some time back:

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=326942&postcount=24849

I am sure he is sincere and I'm sure that indeed writing his book was therapy; but I do blame PA for giving him an illusion which makes him look ridiculous, and makes a mockery of his awful experience.
 
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James D. Macdonald

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Okay, it's true: PA essentially pins a blue ribbon on the chest of everyone who enters the race, including the folks who were still lacing their sneakers in the locker room when the gun went off.

That doesn't mean that the authors are fair game. They are one and all sincere in their belief that they wrote a book of professional caliber -- they have PA's acceptance as proof!

We know that PA accepts books that aren't ready for publication. If you need to quote passages that prove it -- the full text of AN is available on line. You won't hurt my feelings one little bit by quoting it.
 

SeanDSchaffer

James D. Macdonald said:
They are one and all sincere in their belief that they wrote a book of professional caliber -- they have PA's acceptance as proof!

We know that PA accepts books that aren't ready for publication. If you need to quote passages that prove it -- the full text of AN is available on line. You won't hurt my feelings one little bit by quoting it.


Hello everyone. It's been awhile since I've posted on this particular thread--I'd say about two or three months.

But I wanted to comment on what Uncle Jim said above.

The worst part about PA's acceptance policy is that, like many have said in the past on this same forum, a lot of the books that are accepted are very well written. But because PA also accepts poorly written books, many have the assumption that they're all bad. This is a fact that has irked me ever since I first realized my book would be looked upon poorly just because of the PA insignia on its back, title page and spine.

The sad part is that I've read and reviewed several of those authors' books* (the great professional reviewer that I am, snicker, snicker) and found the majority of the books I personally reviewed to be well-written. They were, of course, poorly edited for the most part, but nonetheless many of the books I personally reviewed were, in my humble opinion, books I would have bought were it not for the excessive prices and the lack of availability in my local bookstore.

Were it not for PA's business model and their horrible reputation in the publishing industry, many of their authors could have become (Again, all in my opinion) very well-known and respected authors possibly with their first works, and not had to wait until their second or third to even get off the ground.


*I reviewed electronic galley copies emailed to me by the books' respective authors. In accordance with their wishes I destroyed those copies when I was finished reviewing them.
 
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egem

LloydBrown said:


I often wish that I had of wrote: SIN OF THE POPPAS, years ago.Instead of waiting so late in life.Mainly because of how this book, with it's black cover, depicting a mountain scenery and rainbow; has changed the meaning of my life. To become an author,after living such a life-style that I had lived, has over-shadowed the past and now brings a proudness into my life, that I had never felt before.I had never gave thought;while writing my book that, all these change's would come about. I never dreamed that those in society,those in law-enforcement,, some with-in my own family and other's from my past, would because of this book,tell how proud they now are of me.I never-ever thought; that because of this book, I would ever find forgiveness in my heart for my abuseing father. After fifty years,I today ( because of my book and because of other's book's,one in particular) can say:Father, I forgive you!
I have never looked solely at the monetary value of my book. Rather I hope that for those who read it, that it will inspire those of abuse to not use being a victim of abuse, to destroy thier life after.
As I did. I chose to use the violence that was used against me, to control my life for years. Conciquently I and other's paid dearly.
So today with Gods help, and the reviews of my book.The many emails of thanks and encouragement and especially to you my friends and authors, I have closure and a new meaning to my life.That is what being a published author means to me.
Thank you,PublishedAmerica.


I told myself not to come back to this thread. I am having so much fun in the other rooms. This makes me sad.

This seems like some old guy (maybe not even that old) with a dialect who has written and published a book that he always wanted to publish. Yippee for this guy. We know PA will publish anything, so what is the difference? Let this guy live in lalaland. Why run off and ruin it for him. He's not hurting anyone. He "don't" seem too unhappy with what's going on, so I don't see the harm.

I don't see how well the book is written to be all that important here. I don't see the number of copies sold as all that important either. He has their book of the month and in a writer's world or to this board it might not mean anything, but it seems to mean a great deal to him.

He has his book and his smile and he's happy. No big deal. For other's that want a career in writing much of the things that come out on this board are really important, but this guy could give a rat's butt. The message can still be the same without pointing to PA writers or their work. IF YOU WANT A CAREER IN WRITING DON'T GO WITH PA. IF YOU ARE A SERIOUS WRITER DON'T GO WITH PA. PA WILL TAKE A LOT AND GIVE LITTLE BACK. THEY WILL PUBLISH ANYTHING. IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR COPYRIGHT OR ABOUT THE MONEY FROM THE BOOK OR ANYTHING MOST WRITERS CARE ABOUT DON'T GO WITH PA. This post can go in the overflow where it belongs.
 

Bufty

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I frequently write to PA authors and in many cases they had already realised from their own browsing of other PA author websites that there is a serious question mark over the 'acceptance' procedures of PA.

I take everybody's point above but am only in favour of answering someone's PA post via this Board - not picking on any particular writer and his efforts - after all, it is only through his having being deceived and misled by PA that his work is available for us to see.

[Added] And if, instead of landing on PA's website, someone landed here and posted their work in the Share-your-Work forum for critique, we would be trying to help them improve their knowledge of the craft of writing - not solely pointing the finger at their shortcomings.
 
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Sparhawk

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Here's the problem with PA, as I see it. (Yes, just my biased opinion). Publish America is the "Farm League" of publishing. We all acknowledge that this outfilt will accept and print just about anything that comes there way. The reason this outfit accepts so many "Tragedy" stories is because these are the types of books that the writer will self purchase and his/ her family will self purchase. Everybody has a tale to tell and with PA one has the opportunity to get it printed, bound and out on the internet.

The illusion that a PA writer is a published author is just that, an illusion. I remember fantasizing about being a big leaguer when I played farm league baseball. It was a nice dream, but far from reality. Te same applies with Publish America. There is nothing wrong with providing an outlet for farm league literature. (MY BOOK INCLUDED)

Here's where the deal goes sour. PA promotes themselves as the Major Leagues and convinces their writers that they are just as good as Grisham, King, Rowlings, Moorcock, Eddings et al. This is like a Farm league coach telling his players that they're just a good as Manny Ramirez, Roger Clemens or any other pro ball player. Also, PA catches some real talent in thier web of lies and deciet, these talented writers are caught in a seven year web and are basically held hostage. This, to me, is the real crime. PA can silence all thier critics by simply retuning the rights to those who wish to have their rights returned. Vindictiveness and petty envy prohibits them from doing so. We must remember, none the the three PA leaders could get published legitimatly either.

Would a real professional publisher treat their authors like crap and transmit such sophmoric E-Mail replys that we continually see from Author Support? Would A major league publisher be happy with authors that sell and average of 75 copies per book ? We all know the answers to these questions... NO !! So what is Publish America? They're an opportunty for anyone and everyone to tell thier story. I don't think there's anyting wrong with that. The packaging and promotions this company pitches and the illusion that they attempt to peddal, however, are unjust and immoral. This, in my opinion, is the real crime. The peddaling of illusions and false dreams along with the extent this organization goes to try and keep the illusion alive in the face of all the obvious truth.

Just one guys opinion at 7:10 AM. Coffee anyone ??

-Sparhawk


p
 

aruna

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Bufty said:
I frequently write to PA authors and in many cases they had already realised from their own browsing of other PA author websites that there is a serious question mark over the 'acceptance' procedures of PA.

I take everybody's point above but am only in favour of answering someone's PA post via this Board - not picking on any particular writer and his efforts - after all, it is only through his having being deceived and misled by PA that his work is available for us to see.

[Added] And if, instead of landing on PA's website, someone landed here and posted their work in the Share-your-Work forum for critique, we would be trying to help them improve their knowledge of the craft of writing - not solely pointing the finger at their shortcomings.

You are perfectly right of course and normally I'd have nothing but sympathy and concern for this particular author... it's just his attitude that I felt needed attending to. And yes, I did feel guilty after responding as I did; but then, he asked for it! I never can resist a challenge, and he throw one boldly out there.
 

LloydBrown

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Since I started this mess with the quote, let me step back in before people get riled up with each other.

I guess I'm exceptionally thick-skinned about my work. If somebody posts a clip of mine and says "this is unprofessional"--and it is--then I have no problem with that. I've accepted criticism and learned from it on other message boards in situations that apparently offend other people. I mentally separate my work from myself easily. It's just words, after all.

Hence, I detected no insult to the author in my presentation of his quote here. It is objectively verifiable that the selection I quoted violates grammar and spelling rules taught in public schools by the 8th grade. I didn't use subjective words like stupid, boring, or inane. In my mind, I'm just pointing out this "this batch of words" doesn't cut it, with no reference to the author at all.

I think we all agree with the point--PA publishes doggie doo, and even identifies doo as its best work because they can't tell the difference. And that this selection as Book of the Week is a slap in the fact of the good writers they have. And that you don't publish doo if you want to sell books to the public. I'm sure they were much more concerned about the author's number of children and grandchildren (potential buyers) than they were about the words in his manuscript.

Now that we're all on the same page on that element of the post, I'll try to avoid anything like a personal insult to an author. I think in this case in particular, quoting a book selection would have been better to my point and less offensive than a message board post.
 

egem

Sparhawk said:
They're an opportunty for anyone and everyone to tell thier story. I don't think there's anyting wrong with that.

I agree with you Sparhawk and go one step further. The reason I don't think we should point to writers work from PA is because they didn't get any help with it. Who knows what it would have been if they would have gotten professional editing (others have said this). I'm sure there are professional writers on this board right now that have work in their computers that they don't want anyone to see until their editors run over it a few times. This is the nature of writing. Writers need help. When I worked in publishing we had a routing system that made sure even piece fell into the hands of X amount of editors. The saying was if the piece went through all these editors it had a chance of coming out without a mistake in the finish product. If it didn't it was sure to have mistakes.

The writers that go with PA and don't know what they are getting are hurt by the publishing of a work that has no editing. This hurts a writer in the worst way, in my opinion, it hurts their work.
 

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Canada James said:
But this isn't the thread to critique PA author's work. This is a place to discuss PA's business practices...
C. James


You miss the point Mr. CJ...publishing nonsense is a business practice for PA. There's too many substandard writing for it not to be. Sure, there are exceptions. I'm sure Nancy's book was good, and that among the 14k authors there are probably 100 or more exceptions.

But substandard writing in not an exception and pointing out the quality of their stated 'best' fits in very well with this board.


David
 

Dhewco

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Canada James said:
I got your point. I still don't think the way to point it out is by critiqing these people's books in this thread.

That's my point.

Cj

It's not so much a critique of the work as a critique of the publisher for printing lousy work.


David
 

Jean Marie

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Actually, I believe Canada James nailed the point. Besides, Jenna's policy is to not attack/hold individual authors up to the light for criticism. Ask her. It's really not a point up for discussion. Putting PA's lack of business practice under the microscope is the point of this thread.

Please don't answer/reply w/ semantics.
 

Bonnie Gibson

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My two cents worth about telling of bad grammar

I feel like someone SHOULD tell these people when the posts are so bad.

Not to make fun but to help. Do it in the right way.

Isn't this why we are here? Isn't this what PA is about, taking anything? Doesn't this prove our point?

With this grammar I doubt very seriously if anyone would give them a second of their time to look at a manuscript. (Except PA.) They need to watch how they post, even if it's not formal. This tells me something about a person. This tells me something about their manuscript. A true writer cares about his/her work. They want it to be as error free as possible.

This is what hurts all the PA authors who have written an excellent book. It gets thrown in the pile with all the other trash. Is it the authors who wrote bad books fault? NO. It's PA's for accepting such and telling the authors they are now published authors, and they are giving the book the chance it deserves. UGH!

None of the books go anywhere. The good ones are never going anywhere because PA won't help. The bad ones aren't going anywhere either. They are all thrown in a pile together for family and friends to order.


I feel if you expect someone to listen to you or to read a manuscript that you have written, you'd better watch your grammar. If you don't care how you sound on the message board, do you in your writing?
 

Celia Cyanide

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egem said:
This seems like some old guy (maybe not even that old) with a dialect who has written and published a book that he always wanted to publish. Yippee for this guy. We know PA will publish anything, so what is the difference? Let this guy live in lalaland. Why run off and ruin it for him. He's not hurting anyone. He "don't" seem too unhappy with what's going on, so I don't see the harm.

Actually, I think you're wrong about that, Egem.

Aruna said:
This is the guy who boasted (!) on Shelagh's forum that he had sent off the first draft of his manuscript to PA without any revision whatsoever, and it got accepted "as is". He then went into a rant about "PA bashers", and gave us a dressing down for not recognising that he and other PAlers were "published authors" as good as any other authors out there.

As an unpublished writer, this irks me. I work very hard on my writing, and go over it many times before I even show it to a friend, let alone submit it somewhere. I recognize that I am not published. And this guy wants others to recognize his book as more important than mine? Sorry, but choosing PA to print something you wrote does not make you a more accomplished writer than I am. I could have done it myself, but I chose not to.

While I agree that it is probably not very productive to pick apart people's posts here, if someone is going to go around claiming to be a published author, don't expect me to nod my head and play along.
 

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It's November 1st!

Well, October has come and gone. Do we have the answer to the big question? Are "all" PA books returnable, as the website says? And why is no one questioning this on the PAMB?
 

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Jean Marie said:
Actually, I believe Canada James nailed the point. Besides, Jenna's policy is to not attack/hold individual authors up to the light for criticism. Ask her. It's really not a point up for discussion. Putting PA's lack of business practice under the microscope is the point of this thread.

Please don't answer/reply w/ semantics.

Semantics? LOL, You've got to be kidding. It's not so much an attack on the authors as it is an attack on the company that put that stuff out.

If I...never mind, I should never have got in this. I'm going to shut up now. Have a nice day.

David
 

Jean Marie

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Bonnie Gibson said:
This is what hurts all the PA authors who have written an excellent book. It gets thrown in the pile with all the other trash. Is it the authors who wrote bad books fault? NO. It's PA's for accepting such and telling the authors they are now published authors, and they are giving the book the chance it deserves. UGH!
None of the books go anywhere. The good ones are never going anywhere because PA won't help. The bad ones aren't going anywhere either. They are all thrown in a pile together for family and friends to order.

I agree with you Bonnie w/ these comments. And it's not insulting to the authors. I recall how I felt when I was on the pamb (when I wasn't banned) and read remarks on this board that were aimed directly at me. Some were very unkind, calling my faith into question and taking me personally to task. All it did was reinforce the kool aid PA passed out.

In this respect, you/we are holding PA accountable, not the authors. It's PA's lies that are at fault here. The load of bs they dish out: giving your book the chance it deserves...something bigger than a bulldozer is needed for that one. That's the hook, the bait, the snare, or whatever you want to call it. The author hears that, sits back and says, "Hmm, I guess Aunt Mabel was right, I have inherited the writing gene." That's the tar pit PA uses to entrap new authors who know nothing of the publishing industry.
 

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Maddog said:
Well, October has come and gone. Do we have the answer to the big question? Are "all" PA books returnable, as the website says? And why is no one questioning this on the PAMB?

They probably have questioned it...BUT...the questions have been pulled, deleted, maimed or chastised! As their reply always begins, "Don't take that tone with me." Everyone would have a better chance at batting snow balls toward the gates of hell!

BeeBomb
 

Sparhawk

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Beebomb !! That remark was highly uncalled for. When you're "Revolutionizing" the publishing industry, things take time. How can Publish America be held accountable to such a deadline? Even if it's their own self imposed deadline. Where is your compassion, your understanding? This is a revolutionary event and such things take time. Why every day 125 new writers struggle to achieve the title of PA author. Did you know that every day Bookstores order Publish America books and stock them on their shelves? (Pet stores do too, it takes alot of paper to line those puppy cages.) With books available from sea to shining sea and on every part of the fruited plain, it's only reasonable that this great experiment be entered into slowly and carefully. Please, we will expect your apology immediately, clearly you need to seek council. In the future please don't take that tone with us. Only we at PA are allowed to be condescending and omnipotent.

BLAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!!!!

EmoteROFL.gif
EmoteROFL.gif


PA Books have as much chance of being returnable as my PA book does of being an NYT best seller.
 

Jean Marie

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Hiya Sparhawk
emoticonhi.gif
Can you take a moment to explain how it is PA revolutionized returnablity? Whenever I'm not satisfied w/ a product, I take it back, my money is returned, etc. For example; when I bought a book at a bookstore-the kind w/ shelves and things-you know, stuff you find in a bookstore...sorry. I brought the book back 'cause I didn't like it. And ya know what? They took it back!!!!! Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! Returnable! So, how can PA lay claim to something that's already in place?? It's a little like saying Columbus discovered America...

I knew I was in deep doo doo when shortly after I signed that dreaded poc w/ the criminals, I walked into Borders (not the one where my book is) and asked if they stocked books printed by PA. (at the time, I used the other 'p' word, now I know better) And that is when I caught PeeAnts in their first lie. The guy told me nope, looked it up and said, no way ma'am, not happening. You all know that sinking feeling.
 
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