The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

James D. Macdonald · Mar 25, 2005

tinasamuels said:
OK James, Jaws, and etc... what does this mean:

Tina, it means "Talk to a lawyer."

T42 · Mar 25, 2005

tinasamuels said:
what they said was they were making the contract, non exclusive. I was wondering if this meant I can market it elsewhere since its nonexclusive.

I don't know what you mean Memory about "can't come back on them on your contract".

They did this to me because I told them that I wanted (five) books instead of (2) and they agreed but the contract they sent me said (2) so I wouldn't accept it and three days later I had another contract stating that they had made a amendment to the original contract and the original was null and void more or less. Heck I don't know...I'm not a lawyer...I just cause the trouble

Uncarved · Mar 25, 2005

James D. Macdonald said:
Tina, it means "Talk to a lawyer."

Guess I'm SOL then cause I don't have lawyer money. Ah well, I can wait 7 years till I know its mine again.

I shouldn't have even posted it.

Sher2 · Mar 25, 2005

T42 said:
Ha...let the shredding begin...who mentioned that? I'm happy happy happy today! I agree with Uncle Jim...you can run but you can't hide

Mem, you're on a real roll today. Good going!

Sher2 · Mar 25, 2005

ByGrace said:
Could someone explain to me the difference between and 'exclusive' and nonexclusive' publishing contract?

I don't know what it means, either. Clarification, anyone?

Ed Williams · Mar 25, 2005

I love it, the IRS...

...will soon be making a date with PA, how appropriate. Well, it stands to reason that an outfit that would screw its authors out of relatively small amounts of money could potentially do the same to Uncle Sam for big sums of money. I will love seeing how all this plays out.

And, in the category of most inane comments seen recently on the PA boards, we have this, the subject at hand is can an author submit a second book to someone other than PA:

You are completely free to take the second book somewhere else. Though, you won't have any luck selling it. No I'm not being mean.

Others publishers don't like to continue squeals that a different publisher has started.
One P.A. author, Mary Dresser, who is a fine writer, one of the best, found this out. She wrote a triology she had to finish with P.A. because no one else would touch it.
They couldn't box the set up for sale as one.
Sorry to say, that is a problem with squeals and trilogy writing.

If you want to read all of this glorious thread (I love how supportive these people are of each other), you can find it right here:

http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/main/11846.htm

Eric 'Otter' Stratton

Click to expand...

: Mandy, Mandy Pepperidge. I haven't seen you since we --
Mandy Pepperidge: Go away!
Eric 'Otter' Stratton: I'm sorry, I can only stay a minute. Can I buy you some lunch? Oh, you got your lunch. Well, how about some milk? Got your milk too. Can I just massage your thighs while you eat?
Mandy Pepperidge: Do I have to leave?
Eric 'Otter' Stratton: Is this any way to treat an intimate friend?

Sher2 · Mar 25, 2005

tinasamuels said:
Guess I'm SOL then cause I don't have lawyer money. Ah well, I can wait 7 years till I know its mine again.

I shouldn't have even posted it.

I'm glad you did post it, Tina. Awareness is a good thing. I say that because I just heard from someone who just got the same letter out of the clear blue sky. Something's up. I don't know what it is, but something's up.

T42 · Mar 25, 2005

Sher2 said:
I don't know what it means, either. Clarification, anyone?

ha exclusive means snobbishly aloof, restricted in distribution.

lindylou45 · Mar 25, 2005

Kevin Yarbrough said:
Clopper: I also gave your wife a ride on the Clopper-go-round.

Ewww!!! Where's the smilie for poking my eyes out with a stick?!

Sher2 · Mar 25, 2005

T42 said:
ha exclusive means snobbishly aloof, restricted in distribution.

Snobbishly aloof? Restricted in distribution? Hey, isn't that PimpAmerica you're describing?

T42 · Mar 25, 2005

Sher2 said:
Snobbishly aloof? Restricted in distribution? Hey, isn't that PimpAmerica you're describing?

Precisely! :roll:

Jeff · Mar 25, 2005

Yup, Ed.

That's the problem with those "squeals".

-------

Bluto Blutarsky: See if you can guess what I am now...

-------

Extra credit: There is a reason why our hero in Animal House was named "Pinto". Anyone know? (Hint: You've got to be an old National Lampoon fan because it's not addressed in the movie)

Sparhawk · Mar 25, 2005

Yeah, it was me

Dolan said:
Sparhawk, you little dickens. That was you who ticked off my PA pal and her dog. She once begged HB to order PA to ban me, forever.

Yeah,

It was me. I had a bad day and I took it out on her. It wasn't one of my finer moment's. We disagreed on something and I let my anger get the best of me. The whole issue was trivial and I'm actually embarassed by it. I normally don't go off like that, but everything is fine now.

I called Barnes and Noble's in New York today. I got the number from a prior post. When I read all the material here and the PA Author Support material I decided to go to the source (or at least leave a message). I actually got through to a Mr. Jim Scathe and he confirmed everything that was stated in the Barnes and Noble letter posted earlier.

I read him the PA quotes right from Diane Hignutts post and he said Barnes and Noble DID NOT stock PA Books on their shelves because of high prices, no return policy and other conditions that made them unfavorable to do business with. I also read him the B&N letter verbatim and be basically confirmed every line and every sentence as being Barnes and Noble policy.

He added that they do support POD technology and that they can and do order PA books as special orders if requested.

I kinda pressed him as to why PA would make these claims. He said that Barnes and Noble is aware of the current situation concerning Publish America and that I was not the only Author who called in the last two days about this particualr issue. He added that he was not at liberty to discuss B&N's response to the current situation.

We spoke for about ten minutes. He was very friendly, very professional and very sympathetic. I have no reason to doubt the voracity of his statements. I have a stomache ache now. I have many friends at PA and I feel that I should post what I learned today over there, but I know if I do I'll risk getting flamed or worse be called misinformed by the PA infocenter or possibly even banned for bringing up the topic. Why should I lie about something like this??? Hell, my book is published through them what possible purpose would it serve by making a false claim that could be either verified on proven fraudulent with a single phone call. That's all I did .. ten minutes and a single phone call. If there are any PA Authors reading this, I swear I am telling you the truth.

It's one thing to read it on the boards and then see the opposing view saying that it can be done and hear a local Author talk about how a local B&N is carrying their books. But to actually call New York, and get somebody on the phone and talk out the situation is truly eye-opening and a total bummer.

Kevin Yarbrough · Mar 25, 2005

Non exclusive means that you are free to publish your book with another publisher that is non exclusive. PA has the paperback rights so if you could find a publisher that wanted the mass or hardback rights you should be able to publish it with them, if the new publisher doesn't mind.

Exclusive means that you can't publish the book somewhere else, the publisher has the rights.

At least that is what I found. I'm sure Jaws will let me know if I'm wrong.

Uncarved · Mar 25, 2005

Thank you Kev. Thats all I wanted, someone to say what I was thinking.

lindylou45 · Mar 25, 2005

T42I replied back: Would you like to do a three way call with B&N because you all obviously don’t know what the hell your talking about! This is the 5th time I have asked them to do a three-way call with me. Cowards! [/font said:
[/color]

But they have their letter from some anonymous source at B&N that tells them that they will continue to purchase PA's books. Does it really matter that there's no date on the letter or that no one knows if the person who wrote it really works for B&N? It does? Well I'll be damned! :Smack:

James D. Macdonald · Mar 25, 2005

Kevin Yarbrough said:
So what you are saying Jim is that if the midlist authors book was a trade book and retailed for about $14.95 then the author could make about $2,511.60 in royalties from just BN alone for that year?

Compared to PA's $11.17 an author could make from royalties for BN alone for that year?

What I still don't get is this. If PA is selling 30,000 a books per year for all of their titles to BN they are making $598,500 from those titles. If they did what a real publisher did and spent just a bit up front, edit, be selective, promote and got 2,100 books stocked per title x 8,500 titles they have in BN for a year they could make $266,857,500.

So, do it the right way and make almost 150-200 million when everything is taken out or do it their way and bring in $350-400K after everything is taken out.

Where does the dilema lay?

First, 8,500 titles is a pretty darned big operation. They won't be able to fit that in a townhouse, or two. Second, all the preparaiton, and publicity, and distribution, and maketing, is expensive. Third, this is a specialty field; you can't just walk into it, even if you did take a course.

2,100 books in BN, at $14.95. Those would have gone through a distributor, so they'd get only 40% of the cover price (distributor get's 'em at 60% off, distributes 'em to bookstores at 40% off, pockets the 20% difference). So that's $5.98 per copy they're getting. They printed, say, 5,000 copies. The books cost $0.88 each, for a total of $4,400, making their profit $5.10/ book. But...

Of those 2,100, only 1,470 sell (that's a 70% sell through, which is expected). So they spent $4,400, pay the author a royalty of let's say 12%, which is $2,637.18 (royalties are on cover price). They're up to $7,037.18 just for printing and royalties. Income is $8,790.60 minus printing and royalties, gives them $1,753.60 profit from that book, out of which they have to pay rent, editors' salaries, cover painting, shipping, promotion, marketing, and so on.

Compare that to PA selling 75 copies to their own author. Book costs $4.80 to print, cost to print is $360. Author pays $13.97 per copy, or $1,047.38. Subtract printing costs, and PA gets $687.38 in profit from that book.

Now there are a couple of other things. If that midlist book only sold 1,500 copies, that would be a total flop. A disaster. They'd really figure on selling 10,000 to 20,000 (though they could live with 5,000 for a first novel). Barnes & Nobel aren't the only bookstores in the country. (B&N is about 1/10 of the bookstores in the country, then there are another 7,000 non-bookstore outlets.)

But -- you can see that PA figures on getting close to the same amount on 75 copies to the author that a real publisher would get on 1,500 to the public. Publishing really is a narrow-margin business.

That real publisher might bring out 200 books in a year. PA brings out 4,000 in a year.

You see how it goes?

With a real publisher, bestsellers carry the operation. And do you know where the next bestseller is? The publishers do -- it's in the slushpile, and it was written by a first-timer.

(And this has all been intensely oversimplified.)

Moondancer · Mar 25, 2005

lindylou45 said:
But they have their letter from some anonymous source at B&N that tells them that they will continue to purchase PA's books. Does it really matter that there's no date on the letter or that no one knows if the person who wrote it really works for B&N? It does? Well I'll be damned! :Smack:

Well, you know, it might not mean a whole lot but then again it might mean something. I once googled the name given for the B&N letter PA cites and could never find anyone with that name in connection with B&N. Found a lot of references to the name in various locations around the country and internationally but in a context that had absolutely nothing to do with books.

lindylou45 · Mar 25, 2005

Moondancer said:
I snipped it but my comment really is for the whole letter.

I'm so sick of seeing the same tired letter over and over again. You'd think after a couple of years using this same letter for every response they'd at least take the time to come up with something original to be the next 2 years worth of form letters.

They can't, where would they come up with another letter from B&N?

Moondancer · Mar 25, 2005

lindylou45 said:
Moondancer said:

I snipped it but my comment really is for the whole letter.

I'm so sick of seeing the same tired letter over and over again. You'd think after a couple of years using this same letter for every response they'd at least take the time to come up with something original to be the next 2 years worth of form letters.

They can't, where would they come up with another letter from B&N?

Click to expand...

True... sigh... so very true.

T42 · Mar 25, 2005

Get a load of this you all (tina)

I just got this in my email:
From : Jessica <[email protected]>Sent : Friday, March 25, 2005 9:29 PMTo : Subject : Non-exclusivity Amendment
Dear Ms. McDermott,

You should shortly be receiving amendment paperwork that will make your PublishAmerica contract non-exclusive.

An administrative error on my part caused a single copy to be mailed to you instead of the usual two copies which are normally sent for your convenience.

I am sorry for the inconvenience that I have caused. I will send you a second copy today through regular mail.

Thank you for understanding,

Jessica Lewis
PublishAmerica

What's up? I think they might have a big srew up in the townhouse!

James D. Macdonald · Mar 25, 2005

I'm so sick of seeing the same tired letter over and over again. You'd think after a couple of years using this same letter for every response they'd at least take the time to come up with something original to be the next 2 years worth of form letters.

They didn't expect to need a new letter. Look -- they've restricted look-back in their messageboard to thirty days. Anything posted before then, might as well not exist. They've changed their robots.txt so that Google no longer searchs them and Archive.org no longer archives them. Authors last ... what, six months? Then they get uppity, the get that form letter, they get a Don't Take That Tone letter, then they get killfiled. Simple, easy.

They didn't expect anyone with a memory. They didn't expect authors to share notes. They didn't expect their letters to be saved on other message boards.

I doubt many of their editors have been around much over six months or a year themselves. I bet they burn out pretty quick. So they don't have the memory either of how many times that letter has been sent, where it came from, or even what it means.

It's a mess down there in Frederick.

Just keep your own head clear, tell the truth, and work on your next book.

(It is true, by the way, that if the first book of a trilogy is held by one publisher, that another publisher won't be too interested in the next two volumes. I salute Diana on getting her own first book clear of the wreckage, and I salute John on being able to carry on his series without its first book.)

ByGrace · Mar 25, 2005

T42 said:
I just got this in my email:
From : Jessica <[email protected]>Sent : Friday, March 25, 2005 9:29 PMTo : Subject : Non-exclusivity Amendment
Dear Ms. McDermott,

You should shortly be receiving amendment paperwork that will make your PublishAmerica contract non-exclusive.

An administrative error on my part caused a single copy to be mailed to you instead of the usual two copies which are normally sent for your convenience.

I am sorry for the inconvenience that I have caused. I will send you a second copy today through regular mail.

Thank you for understanding,
Jessica Lewis
PublishAmerica

What's up? I think they might have a big srew up in the townhouse!

I just got the exact same letter. What's going on. I want to understand this perfectly before proceeding with anything. What I'm hoping is this might give us the option of nullifying our contracts when we want to.

James D. Macdonald · Mar 25, 2005

A general word of advice: Don't sign anything until you understand it perfectly and are completely happy with it.

Moondancer · Mar 25, 2005

ByGrace said:
I just got the exact same letter. What's going on. I want to understand this perfectly before proceeding with anything. What I'm hoping is this might give us the option of nullifying our contracts when we want to.

Myself, I'm wondering when everybody started receiving this email because I'm kind of wondering if this is a psuedo-response to the latest fighting back activity from here. We had Diana's interview yesterday, Mem's contacting the IRS today. Methinks there has to be a reason for "why now?".

Would also be interested in seeing this amended contract if anyone can email it to me. I think Jaws might be interested in a copy of it, too.

Added: I'm also wondering if the receivers of this email have sold/bought roughly enough money that PA has made the amount that a pay up front vanity press would charge.

The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

Your Genial Uncle

Herb Lady

I aim to misbehave

Auroraless ExPAtriate

Auroraless ExPAtriate

Auroraless ExPAtriate

Herb Lady

The Stooge Slayer

Auroraless ExPAtriate

Herb Lady

Quixote without a cause

Jenna's Cabana Boy

Will write for peace of mind

I aim to misbehave

The Stooge Slayer

Your Genial Uncle

The Stooge Slayer

Herb Lady

Your Genial Uncle

Your Genial Uncle