Can you be a good writer and have no taste for the "classics?"

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Susan Coffin

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Man, you give me Tarkington, London, Dickens, Poe. O. Henry, Twain, mixed in with Picoult, Koontz, King, Patterson, and don't forget that great Ritchie western, and I'm a happy girl.

Truth is, give me a book, set me up with my cats, and I am transformed to other places, spaces, times and worlds.
 

poetinahat

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This can be more helpful and more likely than you might think.
Seconded - almost universally, my encounters with people who actually make a living (or try to) from music indicate that musos are extremely broad-minded in their listening - they might not like it all, but they know what's going on, and they appreciate the talent and skill involved.
 

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I think what people have said here about returning to the classics when you aren't studying them is very helpful. I loathed English class, HATED reading what was given to me, I took as few University literature classes as possible. Why? It wasn't that I didn't like the classics. I'd loved Shakespeare ever since I was 9 years old (I remember my first encounter with it, being totally mesmerised by the musicality of the language despite not knowing what it meant). But I always hated analysing things I was reading. I wanted to immerse myself in the story, not stop and start. Further I think I always assumed I didn't understand what I was reading as we always analysed things to pieces. That if I just read such a work on my own I wouldn't get it without the help of a teacher so what was the point in reading it for enjoyment.

I'm glad I avoided English Lit, just for my own sake. It meant that when I came to the classics on my own, I could read them enjoy them and take from them what I wanted. Certainly now I analyse things more, but as I wish to analyse them.

I read The Great Gatsby this year for the first time. Absolutely fell in love with it. I remember people having to read it in high school, I never did. I doubt I ever would have read it again now had I read it then.

There is something to the classics. They last for a reason, and not just because the establishment tells us they rock. You might not like all of them, but the fact that you don't like any of them suggests to me that you've been prejudiced in your studies to think them inaccessible and old fashioned. The fact that all you see in Shakespeare is flowery prose when I see a writer of striking modernity is a good example of this (I mean, "I live with bread like you, feel want, taste grief, need friends" is a pretty common thing isn't it? The fact too that Shakespeare ends the line with "needs friends" is pretty something too. In writing we tend to build up to the biggest thing like: "He was the most popular guy in his class, his year, his whole darn school." So to have Shakespeare use friends as one of the biggest needs for this King . . . what could be more modern than that?).

In any event, no, you don't have to love the "classics" (whatever that even means), but you do have to read them. Because we as authors need to know what came before to understand where we can go. It isn't about intelligence. Your friends may be total geniuses without having read a single word. But this isn't about them. It's about writers. And as a writer, you need to know your craft.
 
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rugcat

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Without giving an answer, I might point out an interesting observation from personal experience.

I'm a genre writer, (mystery and urban fantasy) and I know more than a few writers in my field -- good writers, successful, names you would recognize.

Almost without exception they are unbelievably well read, from vampire books to the canon of English lit and everything in between. And although none of them likes everything, I can't think of a single one who actively dislikes the "classics"-- quite the opposite, in fact.
 

kuwisdelu

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Everyone knows you much unconditionally love and painfully analyze every classic piece of literature ever taught.

Except Jane Austen. She sucks.

:sarcasm (Except for the Jane Austen part... I just don't like her. Give me Emily Bronte any day.)

There are "classics" I love and "classics" I hate. But do give some more of them a chance.
 

Guardian

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Heh heh. "Unconditionally love" and "painfully analyze" don't go hand-in-hand for me. I can scrutinize the classics, get out of them what teachers want me to but I still don't like the ones that I don't like. Does that mean I'm gonna be a bad writer? :D
 

SueLahna

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Eeek, tis gotten scary it, hasn't it?
All I am going to say on the matter is that as long as you try to read it, you're better off. Ignoring them all together would be a bit blasphemous. I've read everything I've gotten my hands on, or at least tried to. I could never get through TS Eliot, he annoys me greatly, but I'm still trying to get through Byron's Don Juan. Because it makes me giggle.

The end.
 

Inkblot

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The "classic" author Mark Twain publicly hated Jane Austen's "classic" books. He also wrote about having reread them several times. Either he didn't hate them as much as he said, or he was learning something each time he read them.

I think they were both wonderfully comic writers and anyone interested in writing humor should study them both.
 

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Heh heh. "Unconditionally love" and "painfully analyze" don't go hand-in-hand for me. I can scrutinize the classics, get out of them what teachers want me to but I still don't like the ones that I don't like. Does that mean I'm gonna be a bad writer? :D
I don't know if you're serious about this or not. I think everyone's saying that you SHOULDN'T 'painfully analyze' books if you want to enjoy them. I haven't read a post yet that suggests that reading the books in a close-reading English classroom is the best way to enjoy the classics.

You're not going to be a bad writer if you don't enjoy painful analysis, although you may need to worry if you absolutely hate analyzing ANY writing, because you're probably going to have to do some of it with your own work.
 

KTC

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I read The Great Gatsby this year for the first time. Absolutely fell in love with it. I remember people having to read it in high school, I never did. I doubt I ever would have read it again now had I read it then.


Gatsby is a book I go back to every year. It's my template for the perfect novel. The one at the top of the mountain that I aspire to. Not to write like it, but to write something that is so complete and enjoyable as Gatsby. I am blown away by it every time I read it...on a line by line level and as a whole. Not to mention the fact that Fitzgerald is, possibly, the best short story writer to ever hold a pen.

(but that's just my opinion.)
 

Linda Adams

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Are there any other people like me out there? I wonder sometimes when I see people discussing Macbeth and A Farewell to Arms if I can truly be a good writer if I don't have such a distinguished palate.

Yeah, I don't care much for classics. I did slog through the ususual list in school, but I also did try them as an adult (because of discussions like this). I was reading Wuthering Heights, and I managed to read five books in the middle of reading it because it was that dull to me. I ended up getting less than halfway through before I gave up on it. I think the problem is that I like a certain type of book and most classics simply aren't that type of book. Where I've had the most luck is science fiction, because it does fit in with what I like. I have read Heinlein, Clarke, Herbert (Dune was fantastic), etc.
 

SPMiller

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Critical analysis is cool and all. I do it regularly to books I enjoy. It's just that the approach used in literature classes usually focuses on the artistic elements (theme, subtext, symbolism, etc.) when students would be better served by determining what makes books appeal as entertainment (tension, suspense, plotting, scene structure, etc.).
 

Stellan

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There's no need to force yourself to read the "classics", and you'll probably end up hating them if you do. It's like forcing bran flakes down your throat when you really want a juicy cheeseburger. It might be good for you in some abstract way, but you're not going to like it--in fact, you're probably never going to want to look at bran flakes again.

On the other hand, I'd never avoid a book because it was a classic, or commonly read in schools, or on a list of 100 Best Books By Dead White Dudes. You never know what you might end up loving (or hating in a particularly instructive way). I mean, more stories to love is always a good thing, right?

At a bookstore near where I used to live, they always had a display of the novels on the local high school's curriculum. I used to pick them up and see if they looked interesting, and I've discovered some of my favourites this way. You also couldn't have paid me to read some others.

I guess I'd say you don't have to have taste for "classics" to be a good writer, but you do have to be open to the possibility that every book might have something to teach you.
 

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That was not your question. You asked if one could be a good writer while lacking an appreciation for what you strongly implied was not a few classics, but every single one. You did not ask whether or not one could be a successful, intelligent person. My answer to your original question is still no. In fact, it's 'hell, no'.

As for egotism, how arrogant was it of you to ask in the first place? "Gee, folks, look at me, I'm too hip to be bothered with a bunch of stuff old dead guys wrote! How 'bout you? Who's with me?" You got the answer you deserved.

This.

In any event, no, you don't have to love the "classics" (whatever that even means), but you do have to read them. Because we as authors need to know what came before to understand where we can go. It isn't about intelligence. Your friends may be total geniuses without having read a single word. But this isn't about them. It's about writers. And as a writer, you need to know your craft.

And this.

Without giving an answer, I might point out an interesting observation from personal experience.

I'm a genre writer, (mystery and urban fantasy) and I know more than a few writers in my field -- good writers, successful, names you would recognize.

Almost without exception they are unbelievably well read, from vampire books to the canon of English lit and everything in between. And although none of them likes everything, I can't think of a single one who actively dislikes the "classics"-- quite the opposite, in fact.

And this.

Nobody likes all of "the classics." Trot out a list of all the usual great writers and even the most well-read person will point at some they can't stand. I think Austen is okay, I find Mark Twain boring, I appreciate but do not enjoy Dostoevsky, Thomas Hardy makes me want to gouge my eyes out, but I love Dickens. And as others have pointed out, Shakespeare is meant to be performed, not read.

(And I've never read The Great Gatsby. I know, bad writer. It's on this year's TBR list.)

You should not force yourself to read books you don't like, but you should force yourself to expand your tastes if the only thing you like is contemporary YA.
 

happywritermom

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The "classics" you read in high school are part of the cannon because they are considered "teachable," not necessarily because they are the best of the best. You don't have to like them. The idea is simply to learn from them. If you continue with literature classes in grad school, you might find that you enjoy classic authors more when the syllabus focuses on their entire bodies of work. I couldn't stand George Elliot until I took a class dedicated solely to her work.
So, no, I don't think you have to like the "classics" to be a successful writer. I do think, though, that you have to learn to appreciate literature that is different from your tastes simply for the mastery of the author's execution. That kind of appreciation will help you critique the works of others who write in different genres/styles and help you develop a little more empathy in your own writing.
 

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I have a question for the teachers reading or lurking here. No sarcasm intended, it is truly something I have never been able to understand.

My school, back in the late 60's, had Hemmingway on the required reading list. Censorship was a fact of life in that area at that time. Our copies had all the "bad" words replaced by the word "deleted." Which seemed to be every second word. Made it impossible for me to stay in the story. (And to this day I hate Hemmingway.)

If the essence of good literature is what we were supposed to be getting out of reading those books, then why was over half the book deleted? Strictly a case of societal taboos of the time? How difficult would that have made it for the teachers to get their message across?

I would value your opinions.
 

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You're not going to be a bad writer if you don't enjoy painful analysis, although you may need to worry if you absolutely hate analyzing ANY writing, because you're probably going to have to do some of it with your own work.

I wasn't connecting not painfully analyzing the classics with being a bad writer, I was connecting just not liking the classics with being a bad writer. Guess I need to clarify that I could analyze them just fine, but I still didn't like them. So is it the not liking them that would automatically make me a bad writer? Eh?
 

Namatu

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Absolutely loved Austen, could not at all stand Wuthering Heights (which I do feel bad about).
Don't feel bad. I loathed Wuthering Heights, and this isn't an opinion formed out of a bad high school English class. I read it last year.
 

Amadan

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I wasn't connecting not painfully analyzing the classics with being a bad writer, I was connecting just not liking the classics with being a bad writer. Guess I need to clarify that I could analyze them just fine, but I still didn't like them. So is it the not liking them that would automatically make me a bad writer? Eh?

Not liking any particular classic doesn't make you a bad writer, but if you can't find something to enjoy, appreciate, and learn from in any of the classics, then I'd question whether you have any potential as a writer. (I mean, "the classics" is a huge list, and is not limited to "old dead guys" or books you had to read in high school. Though even those include so many books that I'd worry about someone who doesn't like any of them.)
 

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The fact that all you see in Shakespeare is flowery prose when I see a writer of striking modernity is a good example of this (I mean, "I live with bread like you, feel want, taste grief, need friends" is a pretty common thing isn't it? The fact too that Shakespeare ends the line with "needs friends" is pretty something too. In writing we tend to build up to the biggest thing like: "He was the most popular guy in his class, his year, his whole darn school." So to have Shakespeare use friends as one of the biggest needs for this King . . . what could be more modern than that?).

In Twelfth Night, Viola describes a love which cannot be expressed (of course, she's actually referring to herself) this way: "She sat like patience on a monument, / Smiling at grief."

I defy anyone--especially anyone who has ever concealed love for another, which includes the vast majority of humankind--to find a more beautiful, or stunningly insightful, description of that sort of anguish. Shakespeare is chock full of lines like this. A significant portion of the English language comes directly from words and phrases he created.

If the essence of good literature is what we were supposed to be getting out of reading those books, then why was over half the book deleted? Strictly a case of societal taboos of the time? How difficult would that have made it for the teachers to get their message across?

I would value your opinions.
Because the Puritan strain in American culture, that same odd quirk which makes it perfectly okay for movies and television shows to depict violence of every description like it's going out of style but which faints away at the flashing of a bare breast (Janet Jackson at the Super Bowl...oh, the horror! :rolleyes:) or the use of extreme language, is still strong (and was stronger at the time you're describing). And such tampering makes it extremely difficult to teach or understand the book as it was meant to be taught and understood. I'm happy to be teaching in college, where I've never had anyone even broach the subject to me of censoring; not sure how it would be if I were still teaching in high school. (This plays differently in other countries and cultures, of course.)

Greg
 

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To me, a good writer needs to appreciate language, characterization, and a good plot. If you can't find anything to enjoy in the traditional literary canon, I question whether you appreciate those qualities.

Again, though, note the use of "can't" rather than "haven't yet" - if you've tried all the classics, and if you've been in the right state of mind for reading them, etc. etc., then maybe it's "can't." Otherwise, I think it's just "haven't yet."
 

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Don't feel bad. I loathed Wuthering Heights, and this isn't an opinion formed out of a bad high school English class. I read it last year.

Same here. I read it this year and hated it.

I love me some Jane Austen, though.

The Great Gatsby blew my mind. I read it every year now.

For a modern classic, Revolutionary Road is one of my favorite books ever.

And I'm someone who avoided taking AP English in high school and took minimal English classes in college. I didn't discover the classics until I was in my 30's.
 

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And such tampering makes it extremely difficult to teach or understand the book as it was meant to be taught and understood. I'm happy to be teaching in college, where I've never had anyone even broach the subject to me of censoring; not sure how it would be if I were still teaching in high school. (This plays differently in other countries and cultures, of course.)

Greg

Agreed and appreciate the insight, thank you.
 
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