Food cubes: science fiction or prehistoric invention?

blacbird

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No. In some institutions, prisoners in solitary confinement are fed "nutrition loaves" which is a rectangle of foodstuff mashed together.

These are inflicted upon high-security risk prisoners, because the correctional authorities don't want them to have any eating utensils. They (apparently) satisfy legal requirements for nutrition. They are also detested at a level hard to express. Having these and nothing else to eat is a form of punishment, pure and simple.

Which brings up a major issue for long-term space exploration by humans. Just what exactly will they be able to eat? What can be preserved for years and still remain viable for food? Not just nutrition, mind you, but food. There's a difference.

And nobody is going to be growing crops on Mars anytime soon.

caw
 
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Dave Williams

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they could afford multiple cooking pots

Off in the Civil War section, shorpy.com has high resolution scans of glass plate photographs from the Civil War. One of them is a soldier and his family at camp. (military life was a bit different back then) The family was proudly showing off their belongings... some raggedy clothing, shoes, and... pots. Lots of pots.

After a while I realized that the pots probably signified, if not wealth, then utility and value. You can use a pot as a storage container as well as a cooking utensil.

If you're not familiar with shorpy... don't go there until you have a sizeable block of free time.
 

Samsonet

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When I got my braces put on, I "ate" nothing but Ensure for about a week. Not something I'd recommend.

This thread has really got me thinking. My current wip is set in a world where growing your own vegetables is a big thing, but now I'm wondering if they would also have protein cubes or something similar for other nutrients.
 

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Very soon it will be (if it isn't already) possible to use a 3D printer to print food. No reason not to print it out in cube-shape, if that's how you like it.

I'm assuming you'd have some sort of pre-prepared, liquid, food slurry you loaded into the printer, however. So the next question I have is why not just suck that slurry from the "glue gun" thingy directly?

Unless the printer is capable of combining the different slurries in ways that is actually tasty and interesting and baking them into a pleasant texture (I'm having trouble seeing how).
 
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Introversion

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Unless the printer is capable of combining the different slurries in ways that is actually tasty and interesting and baking them into a pleasant texture (I'm having trouble seeing how).

"Printed food" strikes me as one of those technical solutions to a problem almost no one actually has.

I know NASA has some interest in it, but I think mostly because they're interested in knowing whether the "food toner" * is more nutritionally stable than other ways they have of storing food. Might be useful for long-term space missions, but I can't really see it catching on generally.

Frankly, "ewww" is my reaction to the idea. :tongue

* = Apparently, at least NASA expects to store the basic food stocks in dry, powdered form. Presumably to be reconstituted with water, perhaps in the printer itself? I know other schemes I read about down here on Earth use printable gels. Either way, "ewww".
 
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Fruitbat

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* = Apparently, at least NASA expects to store the basic food stocks in dry, powdered form. Presumably to be reconstituted with water, perhaps in the printer itself? I know other schemes I read about down here on Earth use printable gels. Either way, "ewww".

Is this the new and improved version of eating paste? :)
 

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Personally, I think there's a whole other layer to sci-fi food cubes. They're usually either tasteless or artificially flavored, and like people said above, they tend to be a symbol of uniformity and sometimes a loss of humanity.

That's an interesting point -- indeed that's the common way they're used, as a pointer toward either dystopia or utopia, eg. "gruff and deedle with wobbly to fill up the cracks" (Jack Vance, Wyst). And military ration bars are nearly ubiquitous.

In my universe, ration bars are what you might get fed in jail, buy on the street when you're too broke to eat better, or discover are the sole sustenance in that starship you stole without troubling to reprovision it.
 

jjdebenedictis

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There is apparently some big prize available (although probably not sufficiently big to cover the cost of development) for anyone who can grow meat in a lab, i.e. produce edible meat without needing to kill animals or (hopefully) tax the environment as hard as large-scale meat production currently does.

Last I heard, they could produce something that is technically meat and edible, but pale and slimy and revolting.

Assuming the technology gets much better, I'm sure space ships to Mars, etc., would preferentially stock the ability to grow meat and vegetables, rather than stocking the meat and vegetables in a form that doesn't go bad (or taste good.) It would be more energy intensive, but yeah -- human beings don't psychologically deal well with having to eat the same food/textures all the time.
 

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There is apparently some big prize available (although probably not sufficiently big to cover the cost of development) for anyone who can grow meat in a lab, i.e. produce edible meat without needing to kill animals or (hopefully) tax the environment as hard as large-scale meat production currently does.

Last I heard, they could produce something that is technically meat and edible, but pale and slimy and revolting.

That is so gross! I don't understand the purpose anyway. People who want to eat other things in the place of meat already do, it's called vegetarianism. :/
 

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That is so gross! I don't understand the purpose anyway.

The few articles I've read talk in lofty terms: less waste (no bones), lower-impact ecologically (takes less food & land to grow a pound of "shmeat" or whatever you want to call it), etc.

I don't imagine our food industry would mind cutting farmers out of their industrial pipeline, either.

Such things sometimes remind me of T.J. Bass' classic "The Godwhale". Some day we'll all be nebbishes eating Yellow Two from a tube. :gaah
 

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(3D printed food)
I'm assuming you'd have some sort of pre-prepared, liquid, food slurry you loaded into the printer, however. So the next question I have is why not just suck that slurry from the "glue gun" thingy directly?
Some people like food art, as it may be called. Alphabet soup. Birthday messages and the like on cakes. Specially-shaped cookies. Candy canes. Gummy bears. ...

Not surprisingly, it's often made with shapable foods.
 

jjdebenedictis

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Most of the food art contains a variety of textures. I don't think squirting the same consistency of goo (perhaps in many flavours) into other shapes would be as pleasing. We like the silky chewiness of pasta, the crunch of chips and raw fruit, the gloop of yoghurt (well, actually, I always hated that), and so on. Taste is only part of what we enjoy about food; mouth-feel is important too.
 

Reziac

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When I dumped two characters into a subterranean jail for a few days, I fed them unappetizing glop that if left uneaten, solidified into an even more-unappealing rubbery lump. So yes, there is something worse than rat bars. :D
 

lpetrich

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Last I heard, they could produce something that is technically meat and edible, but pale and slimy and revolting.
If one is to believe the taste testers of some recently-made artificial meat, it's not as horrible as that: BBC News - World's first lab-grown burger is eaten in London

However,
Steak of the Art: The Fatal Flaws of In Vitro Meat - The Crux
Cell culture is one of the most expensive and resource-intensive techniques in modern biology. Keeping the cells warm, healthy, well-fed, and free of contamination takes incredible labor and energy, even when scaled to the 10,000-liter vats that biotech companies use.
Not even mentioning producing the right 3D structure and keeping the meat exercised.
Cell culture is hideously expensive, not to mention technically difficult.

Even beyond this mechanical engineering issue, when we consider the other raw materials, the nutrients that will feed and sustain these stem cells as they grow into our dinner, the large-scale sustainability of in vitro meat can be called into question.
The recent effort used muscle stem cells from a cow.
But the donor cells aren’t the only animal product needed to grow in vitro hamburgers; the growth medium that provides nutrients, vitamins, and growth hormones to the cells is currently made with a mixture of sugars and amino acids supplemented with fetal bovine serum—literally the blood of unborn cows.

That's why something like Quorn is a much better bet. It is made from the soil fungus Fusarium venenatum, grown in vats with only minerals and glucose, the latter produced by digesting cornstarch.

That has the problem of having to grow entire corn plants just to get the starch in their seeds. A more resource-efficient alternative is cellulose digestion, because one can use the entire plants instead of some easily-digestible parts of them. But that has the problem is that cellulose digestion is much more difficult than starch digestion, but some people are working on using some organisms' cellulose-digesting enzymes for that.
 

Reziac

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That has the problem of having to grow entire corn plants just to get the starch in their seeds. A more resource-efficient alternative is cellulose digestion, because one can use the entire plants instead of some easily-digestible parts of them. But that has the problem is that cellulose digestion is much more difficult than starch digestion, but some people are working on using some organisms' cellulose-digesting enzymes for that.

A bigger problem is that cellulose is fundamentally a string of glucose (sugar). And that's all you get out of it when it's digested. It's calories but it's hardly a nutritious meal by itself. The organism doing the breaking-down can provide some nutrients, but is it a balanced diet? Doubtful. Live on nothing but bread for a while (which is functionally the same mix) and see how you do.

The main reason to research efficiently breaking down cellulose is for energy production that doesn't involve burning the raw material, which is not as clean as burning an alcohol byproduct.

But the real limiting factor for crops (and remember, to make all this cellulose you have to grow a whole lot of crops) is that the amount of arable land (that is, which can be used for crops) worldwide is actually rather small. Here's a handy chart:

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/AG.LND.ARBL.ZS/countries?display=map

This amounts to an average across all nations of just over 10% of the world's land surface. However, some parts of the world have essentially none, others considerably more (the U.S. among them).

Switching entirely to plant-based agriculture would do several things:

It would require a great deal better food distribution than we have today, since currently most of these arable-land-poor countries survive mainly via animal husbandry, and one of the big problems is access -- since the more rugged the land, the more likely it is to only support animal agriculture. (And a great deal more of the world is rugged than most city folks realize.)

A great deal of the world simply doesn't have the water for crops, even if everything else was good. Perhaps a third more land would be usable with a degree or so of global warming (eg. much of the Sahara Desert, which greens during warm periods) and with massive desalination projects and irrigation pipelines (such as Saudi Arabia can afford, but they are not a typical economy). Who is going to pay for all this? Still, even at best-case, this would not be enough to feed everyone. See below.

It would require even more intensive use of fertilizer, which to get a decent crop requires somewhere around 50 pounds per acre per year (and that's even with the soil the U.S. is blessed with, which thanks to geology is far better than the average worldwide). And it would double our use of natural gas. Right now the world gets about half its nitrogen fertilizer (which after water is THE limiting factor on crop production per acre) as a byproduct of animal operations. But the shortfall is made up from an industrial process that uses a lot of natural gas, and there are no alternatives that can make enough fertilizer to fill the gap. Functionally, elimination of animal agriculture would also cause the loss of about half the world's crops -- mostly in developing nations, since they don't have the industry to make up the shortfall (even if they have the natural gas). And remember, for subsistence farmers, manure is free, but manufactured fertilizer has to be purchased. Who is going to pay for all this?

Further, loss of animal agriculture leads to desertification, especially in areas that are already too short of water to support crops. Don't believe me? Listen to Allan Savory, who has the results to back this up. Grasslands evolved to be grazed, and it doesn't matter which animal does the grazing. (This also squares with my personal observation. Where I lived in the desert, so long as the big flocks of sheep came through a few times a year, we had grass and wildflowers. When the sheep stopped coming, within two years we had weeds and dirt.) Remember that the vast majority of the world's animal ag does NOT involve a feedlot.

Incidentally, research at the University of Arizona found that numbers of desert tortoise are directly proportional to the number of cattle present. The more cattle, the more tortoises. Why? Because the primary diet of the desert tortoise is the dung of large animals. They thrive best on cow shit.

For those worrying about direct land impact, animal ag, properly applied, doesn't do much that nature doesn't, since all these lands evolved to be grazed. But crop ag functionally destroys the land as a habitat for anything else (plant or animal), turns that land into a monoculture, and use of harvesting machinery is estimated to kill up to half a million small animals per acre (yes, really. Mostly mice and rabbits.)

But perhaps the most salient for the world today: Plant ag alone would, per several estimates I've seen, support a max of about one billion people worldwide. Who gets to choose which 6 billion people are eliminated?
 
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Megann

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For those of us who work on ships we have "survival biscuits" in liferafts and lifeboats. I wouldn't recommend eating those if you don't strictly have to.
 

jjdebenedictis

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But perhaps the most salient for the world today: Plant ag alone would, per several estimates I've seen, support a max of about one billion people worldwide. Who gets to choose which 6 billion people are eliminated?
The people who own the farms, I'm pretty sure.

PS - Awesome, well-informed post, by the way! :)
 

Reziac

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The people who own the farms, I'm pretty sure.

Heh... more likely the people who decide that ag should become purely crops. Tho you won't ever see any of them volunteering...

PS - Awesome, well-informed post, by the way! :)

<bowing> Something I've been following for a very long time.

I'd started looking up what it had cost to get that first synthburger, but got distracted. :) Anyway IIRC Google threw $300k into it, making it the most expensive burger ever. The original prize was offered by PETA, the goal being synth chicken, but the prize has since been withdrawn.
 

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Most of the food art contains a variety of textures. I don't think squirting the same consistency of goo (perhaps in many flavours) into other shapes would be as pleasing. We like the silky chewiness of pasta, the crunch of chips and raw fruit, the gloop of yoghurt (well, actually, I always hated that), and so on. Taste is only part of what we enjoy about food; mouth-feel is important too.

Yeah, a diet of nothing but yogurt or pudding or frosting would get really tedious, even if it came in exciting colors and you could make pretty swirls.
 

slhuang

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It tastes fine. Not great, not bad, just fine. :D You can also mix with other stuff in a blender to flavor it but I'm far too lazy...(laziness was the entire point anyway)

This, including the laziness. :D