Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

James D. Macdonald said:

Oh, and here's agent Jessica Faust on whether you should write short stories or keep a blog as part of your effort build a platform to sell your novel: http://bookendslitagency.blogspot.com/2009/04/building-platform-for-fiction.html



Bet you'll never guess what she recommends.

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Uncle Jim,

How did you know I was working up the courage to ask exactly that? I was considering starting a blog but I was afraid I wouldn't be providing anything but the occasional trite content and that's definitely not what I want to do. All this to say this advice is timely. Thank you!

P.S. I looked up Viable Paradise since I saw it in your signature. I'd so love to go!!! But it's not going to happen. Ever. So, while you're there, can you spare a thought for all of us who are dying to go to something like that but can't make it?

Let me paraphrase a line from one of my favorite movies (All That Jazz):

Listen. I can't make you a great writer. I don't even know if I can make you a good writer. But, if you keep trying and don't quit, I know I can make you a better writer.

James D. Macdonald said:

Let me paraphrase a line from one of my favorite movies (All That Jazz):

Listen. I can't make you a great writer. I don't even know if I can make you a good writer. But, if you keep trying and don't quit, I know I can make you a better writer.

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Isn't that what we are after?

I agree with what Miss Faust says in that post. Keep writing and writing and writing. I know that with every story I write I improve. I'm positive that as I'm doing the short stories it's helping my novel work. They are two different animals, but of the same species. And in the short stories I am beginning to show things better--that transfers over to the longer writing as well. Nobody said this would be easy.

Uncle Jim, what's the protocol on abbreviations? Specifically, in dialogue. My character is talking about some of his childhood, and the line is: "DFS put us in a group home." I can't see him saying "Division of Family Services...," so is this acceptable? Everybody should know what DFS is anyway, right?

smsarber said:

Uncle Jim, what's the protocol on abbreviations? Specifically, in dialogue. My character is talking about some of his childhood, and the line is: "DFS put us in a group home." I can't see him saying "Division of Family Services...," so is this acceptable? Everybody should know what DFS is anyway, right?

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Wrong. Not over here in Europe we don't. There was another one came up some time ago that "everyone knows" but I didn't. Can't remember it now, some branch of the security service with an F in for Firearms.

How about "The feds put us in..." or "The government put us in..." or maybe "Family Services put us in..." or "Those bastards put us in..."?

"Everything's gotta have rules, rules, rules." -- Calvin.

After having read a sizable portion of this thread, I can't believe the stunning amount of rules a novel should adhere to. I am truly, honestly convinced that all you need to be able to write a good novel is talent and lots of practice. But especially talent. Reading lots of works by other authors is important too, but not to the point where you want to mimic them.

I am convinced that people who think they need all these rules, tips and bits of advice should forget about writing altogether. Or they should just get on with it and allow themselves to write some pretty awful novels before they get to the the good ones. If they have talent, it will work out. If they don't--well, there's always gardening. And there's nothing wrong with that.

And where in this thread does it say one has to follow rules and rules and rules and mimic other writers?

Any idiot can put thousands of words on paper.

The craft of writing is putting these words down in such a way that readers want to read the next sentence and the next and the next. Achieve that effect in your readers and your novel will sell.

There are guidelines and/or established techniques to achieve and convey specific effects and emotions in one's writing and one ignores these at one's peril.

motormind said:

"Everything's gotta have rules, rules, rules." -- Calvin.

After having read a sizable portion of this thread, I can't believe the stunning amount of rules a novel should adhere to. I am truly, honestly convinced that all you need to be able to write a good novel is talent and lots of practice. But especially talent. Reading lots of works by other authors is important too, but not to the point where you want to mimic them.

I am convinced that people who think they need all these rules, tips and bits of advice should forget about writing altogether. Or they should just get on with it and allow themselves to write some pretty awful novels before they get to the the good ones. If they have talent, it will work out. If they don't--well, there's always gardening. And there's nothing wrong with that.

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Rules? In a knife fight?

There is only one rule: If it works, it's right.

Every writer mimics other writers, bar none.

The rules of writing have to do with the English language. If you know them, you can break them with confidence.

Make your readers care about what happenes to your characters and they won't care about all the rules you're breaking.

Ken

euclid said:

Wrong. Not over here in Europe we don't. There was another one came up some time ago that "everyone knows" but I didn't. Can't remember it now, some branch of the security service with an F in for Firearms.

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You're probably thinking of BATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms). I recall one story where sugar was regulated and it was the BATC: Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Confections.

Think of your audience. Not every book is meant for every person on the planet.

Often context will take care of the problem. Other times you might want to define the term in dialog the first time it shows up. You can do this: Literary dialog is a convention of art, not a natural depiction of actual human speech. (If it were natural speech, um, like I was saying, you know, looks like it's raining out.)

James D. Macdonald said:

Think of your audience. Not every book is meant for every person on the planet.

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Good point, and yes ATF was the one. I've seen American TV shows where the premises are raided by guys dressed in blue with ATF in big letters on the backs of their bullet-proof vests. It looked to us like FBI painted on there by someone with dyslexia.

Sugar is pretty addictive. That probably should be Alcohol Tobacco and Chocolate.

BATC: Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Chocolate! Open up!

Crook: You can't touch me, copper! Ain't nothing here but lemon drops! Ha ha ha ha ha!

*sigh* I'm not familiar with any of the acronyms mentioned above except for FBI. I also missed the reference to NINA (or NENA as it was presented) from a couple of weeks ago. Might be because I live in Canada but most of the books, TV shows, music, etc. we are exposed to are American so it's not as if we're in some remote location.

I recommend never using acronyms without defining them because somewhere, someone won't know what you're referring to. Do not assume general knowledge. I do like Euclid's suggestion of removing the acronym and just referring to the group as "the government" or "Family Services", etc.

Don't confuse your readers.

I've been reading Flannery O'Connor again. Man! She was some writer. I love the way she wrote what she wanted to write, and not to satisfy some perceived market.

Yesterday I started writing what I want to write. I wrote 2,200 (fantastic) words with just a barely outlined plan. I don't know yet whether I'm writing a long or a short piece, just letting the words, characters, situations flow.

I told my significant other what I was doing. She said, "I wish you wouldn't." She refused to elaborate. I think there may be a divorce looming!

James D. Macdonald said:

Rules? In a knife fight?

There is only one rule: If it works, it's right.

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Not to disagree with the man whose name is on the thread, but...

If it's entertaining it's right.

James D. Macdonald said:

Don't confuse your readers.

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Which is why I can't stand James Joyce.

Joyce is like quantum physics. "If you think you understand quantum physics, you don't understand quantum physics."

Or as some wag said:

"Anyone who understands the unrest in Northern Ireland (1969 onwards) is misinformed."

Joyce is not difficult to understand if you know his environment (ie Dublin). How could you not stand an author who wrote this (From Portrait of an Artists as a Young Man):

"A girl stood before him in midstream, alone and still, gazing out to sea. She seemed like one whom magic had changed into the likeness of a strange and beautiful seabird. Her long slender bare legs were delicate as a crane's and pure save where an emerald trail of seaweed had fashioned itself as a sign upon the flesh. Her thighs, fuller and softhued as ivory, were bared almost to the hips where the white fringes of her drawers were like a feathering of soft white down. Her slateblue skirts were kilted boldly about her waist and dovetailed behind her. Her bosom was as a bird's, soft and slight, slight and soft as the breast of some darkplumed dove. But her long fair hair was girlish, girlish, and touched with the wonder of mortal beauty, her face.

She was alone and still, gazing out to sea; and when she felt his presence and the worship of his eyes her eyes turned to him in quiet sufferance of his gaze, without shame or wantonness. Long, long she suffered his gaze and then quietly withdrew her eyes from his and bent them towards the stream, gently stirring the water with her foot hither and thither. The first faint noise of gently moving water broke the silence, low and faint and whispering, faint as the bells of sleep; hither and thither, hither and tither; and a faint flame trembled on her cheek.

--Heavenly God! cried Stephen's soul, in an outburst of profane joy.

He turned away from her suddenly and set off across the strand. His cheeks were aflame, his body was aglow; his limbs were trembling. On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him."

To me, there's a difference between confusing someone and making them think. I think great literature makes us think and question stuff. Sometimes you do want your readers to work for it, instead of spoon-feeding every piece of information, or explaining everything to them. Subtexts are wonderful -- and if they don't get it, they don't. Symbolism, parallels, mirrors, foreshadows, etc. are all part of that. In mysteries, there are always clues for those who are smart enough to crack the case before the detective does.

But "confusing" is another matter -- that would mean inconsistencies, breaking rules, implausibilities, withholding pertinent information, coyness, etc. Those things would infuriate the readers. It's better if the readers are confused because THEY missed something -- it's there all along; you just didn't see it! But to have something actually misleading or inconsistent, that's the bad kind of confusing.

James D. Macdonald said:

Let me paraphrase a line from one of my favorite movies (All That Jazz):

Listen. I can't make you a great writer. I don't even know if I can make you a good writer. But, if you keep trying and don't quit, I know I can make you a better writer.

Click to expand...

Uncle Jim,
I'm facing a structure conundrum for an epic fantasy I'm working on, the details of which I've posted in the Sandbox, here:http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138868

I'd very much appreciate your guidance/advice on the issue, as you work (successfully) in this genre.

Do you have a moment to offer some advice?

Thanks in advance.

In my novel, the character in question is a former gang-member, and now heads a crime syndicate. In the situation, I can't think of him saying Family Services, etc... Maybe it because it's how people I was in prison with and around here talk-- "DFS" is natural here. I could change it without hurting anything, though.

Hi Steven,

One way to work around that dilemma, is that the character says DFS then maybe a sub character, a cop, girlfriend, something asking what DFS means then having that character what he/she is talking about.

Example:

"Yeah. DFS put me there."

"DFS. Who in the universe is DFS? Donuts fudge and soda?"

"DFS stands for Department of Family Services you dope. Do you always have to think about food?"

Something like that would help.

Keep in mind that different places have different names for the same thing. You say Department of Family Services I say Child Protective Services. I live on the west coast and was a preschool for seven years. There wasn't a day that I didn't hear DFS or CPS. I could tell what part of the US they came from if they said DFS. As DFS is most likely on the midwest to east coast.

More subtle would be where another character says "Yeah, another victory for Family Services." or something like that.

euclid said:

Or as some wag said:

"Anyone who understands the unrest in Northern Ireland (1969 onwards) is misinformed."

Joyce is not difficult to understand if you know his environment (ie Dublin). How could you not stand an author who wrote this (From Portrait of an Artists as a Young Man):

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Yes. My fault, I should have been specific. Finnegan's Wake is the novel I was referring to.

And I second your suggestion for a more subtle interjection of the meaning of the acronym.

smsarber said:

Uncle Jim, what's the protocol on abbreviations? Specifically, in dialogue. My character is talking about some of his childhood, and the line is: "DFS put us in a group home." I can't see him saying "Division of Family Services...," so is this acceptable? Everybody should know what DFS is anyway, right?

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Personally (and I know I don't have much cred on the board) I think the line is fine as is. I didn't know what DFS was when I read it but it sounded like some government something or other --and because this DFS puts our character into a group home it sounds pretty much like social services. Good enough for me. Keep the story moving.

If you had to, you could explain it:
"DFS put us in a group home." DFS, the Division of Family Services. Jennifer always thought of it as...