Survived Car Crash. Killed by Cop

Thanks for the link Zoombie. The article made some very good points. I wish our local cops wore them, but I'm just wondering about the actual logistics. Is it something the size of a cigarette that straps onto one's hat and the barrel of the firearm? Is it smaller? Would it hinder an officer's ability to pull the sidearm? It sounds like it uploads rather than storing data. That's good. What would it add per officer to the annual budget? Would they need to hire an additional person as IT personnel?

One thing that I've noticed as helping is having more women on the force.

Those are all good questions...

But, unless the costs are astronomical, I don't see this as a bad investment.

Very strongly agree with the more women on the force. More women in government and the military too.

MarkEsq said:

I'm absolutely shocked people are blaming her. First of all, burglars do knock. It's extremely common for burglars to knock first, because they want to see if anyone's home. I see it all the time.

And I can promise you, if a stranger knocked on my door at 2:30am and my wife opened the door she'd get an earful from me.

Whoever is to blame for this, it is NOT the homeowner.

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I didn't mean I thought she shouldn't have called the police. I wouldn't have answered either. But if she said a guy was trying to break into her house when he was knocking and asking for help, I'd say it was at the very least a bad judgement call. It's like opening the door, seeing someone you don't know and screaming 'rape' until he's tackled by a bystander.

I also don't blame her for his death, the cops shot him. But I do think her mind-set was probably very similar to theirs, only she didn't have a gun and a misguided sense of duty.

Zoombie said:

I know I've said it a few dozen times...

But seriously, body cameras, gun cameras.

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Which would have accomplished what?

Cameras may reduce the use of excessive force when the cop is abusing his power and/or thinks he can get away with it. That's highly unlikely to be what happened here. This cop wasn't drunk on power; he was inexperienced, out of his depth and probably an idiot. He failed to assess the situation correctly, made a terrible error of judgment and completely overreacted. For that he deserves to be punished. What difference would a camera on his person have made?

GeorgeK said:

We don't know what he said to her but it's doubtful that it was, "Excuse me miss, but I've been in an accident and am injured. Could you call me an ambulance please and maybe toss me a blanket while I wait?

The accident was also from what I've read, a half mile away, so it's not like she could see a smashed car from her front door.

Most likely he had a concussion and the not so unusual combative attitude that can accompany that. In the ER that is to be expected, but not on one's front porch.

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This. You can't blame a woman living alone for calling 911 when someone hammers on her door in the middle of the night. In retrospect it was tragic that she did, but she didn't do anything wrong.

It's easy to play Monday morning quarterback in a situation like this (especially if you only think you understand football), but hearing about it on the news, with hindsight and time to think, and actually being there are completely different.

nighttimer said:

Why did police initially describe Kerrick's shooting of Ferrell as “appropriate and lawful," but later change their tune to "excessive?"

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Where do they say that? Your link doesn't go anywhere and the Observer story mentions nothing like that, nor do any of the other versions of the story I've read.

robeiae said:

Possibly. Or it may end up being a tragedy unrelated to that, either, but simply the result of a trigger-happy/scared cop who overreacted.

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Hanlon's razor springs to mind here...

asroc said:

Which would have accomplished what?

Cameras may reduce the use of excessive force when the cop is abusing his power and/or thinks he can get away with it. That's highly unlikely to be what happened here. This cop wasn't drunk on power; he was inexperienced, out of his depth and probably an idiot. He failed to assess the situation correctly, made a terrible error of judgment and completely overreacted. For that he deserves to be punished. What difference would a camera on his person have made?

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We'd know exactly what happened.

A big part of this discussion hasn't just been commiserations about the folly of the situation, but wondering about who was at fault, and why.

We can't know, unless we were there. A camera is a way to be there, at least in part.

GeorgeK said:

Thanks for the link Zoombie. The article made some very good points. I wish our local cops wore them, but I'm just wondering about the actual logistics. Is it something the size of a cigarette that straps onto one's hat and the barrel of the firearm? Is it smaller? Would it hinder an officer's ability to pull the sidearm? It sounds like it uploads rather than storing data. That's good. What would it add per officer to the annual budget? Would they need to hire an additional person as IT personnel?

One thing that I've noticed as helping is having more women on the force.

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The things are pretty small. Logistics aren't really the issue. Budgeting is a problem that usually comes up when the issue is discussed within our force, but the first reaction that comes from the patrol cops is pretty much always: "I'd lose all my CIs!" "How are we ever supposed to solve another shooting in [gang-controlled area]? Nobody'll ever talk to us again!"
In certain areas of the city it's already hard enough to coax people into telling you who gunned down their best friend on a street corner as it is, because they're so terrified someone will find out they snitched. Add a camera to the officer and you might as well not bother investigating at all, because all you get is closed doors.

I've even had people in my district refuse to give basic medical information about their sick or injured friends to us (EMS), because we carry radios and they're convinced someone could be listening and know they were talking to a uniform, even if it isn't a police uniform.

ETA: But that's a derail. Sorry about that.

Zoombie said:

We'd know exactly what happened.

A big part of this discussion hasn't just been commiserations about the folly of the situation, but wondering about who was at fault, and why.

We can't know, unless we were there. A camera is a way to be there, at least in part.

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Kerrick killed Ferrell and it was clearly not justified. I don't see any posts here questioning that.

asroc said:

Kerrick killed Ferrell and it was clearly not justified. I don't see any posts here questioning that.

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I guess I misread some posts...

asroc said:

Kerrick killed Ferrell and it was clearly not justified. I don't see any posts here questioning that.

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Zoombie said:

I guess I misread some posts...

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That's certainly the assumption since he's being charged. I'd like to know more, like hoe fast was the victim running, did the officers order for him to stop, was he holding anything, perhaps if he had a concussion was the victim yelling in such a way that was off?

Doesn't excuse it, but why would any officer just shoot a guy looking for help if they knew that was going on. The cop is just throwing their own life away.

I would like more info, both from the officers and the woman.

I don't blame her for calling the cops at all, but I'd still like to hear what she has to say in terms of what happened. If he was banging on her door asking for help? Or maybe was so stunned fromt he accident that he couldn't?

Some years ago, something similar happened to me. It was early morning and I had a teen banging on my back door on my deck which you had to climb stairs to get on. He was clearly drunk or high because what he was saying made 0 sense. Naturally, I didn't let him in, but I didn't call the cops either because he said goodby and stumbled off with 2 friends that came and were calling him. They seemed more sober and yelled, "Sorry."

But in the middle of the night? Woman alone? Yeah, call the cops. Whatever happened is on them.

Barbara R. said:

That was my first thought, too. The article doesn't give his race, though, or the cops.

Of course, most rapists don't knock on the door at 2:30 A.M. But I don't blame the woman for calling the cops when it happened. It wasn't her fault--it's all on the cop.

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Their photos are available in the article. The former football player is Black. The cop is White.

Zoombie said:

I guess I misread some posts...

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I must be on his ignore list.

ETA: Can you turn these body cams off for potty breaks?

Gale Haut said:

I must be on his ignore list.

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I'm a she and yes, I missed your post. Sorry.

asroc said:

I'm a she and yes, I missed your post. Sorry.

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Sorry about that Alex.

Gale Haut said:

ETA: Can you turn these body cams off for potty breaks?

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Assuming you could, could you also turn it off for talking to CI's? But if the cop could turn it on and off at will, wouldn't that defeat the purpose?

When injured, our bodies instinctively want to get up and run. Long ago, when we were prey, it was a survival instinct.

The article mentioned that it was a pretty serious car accident. The guy stumbles from the accident, realizes that he has serious injuries, and then starts moving in order to find help.

Vince524 said:

Assuming you could, could you also turn it off for talking to CI's? But if the cop could turn it on and off at will, wouldn't that defeat the purpose?

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A review of the footage could easily determine whether or not the camera is being turned off before dealing with a perp vs. a poop.

Vince524 said:

Assuming you could, could you also turn it off for talking to CI's? But if the cop could turn it on and off at will, wouldn't that defeat the purpose?

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Yes, you can turn it off, but you're not supposed to. You're supposed to record all your interactions with the public. (It's okay turn them off for lunch and potty breaks, nobody wants to see that.) But the thing is, it doesn't matter if it's off. Just the fact that it's there is enough.

ETA: Okay, I have to go work, so:

I realize the situation is probably not as clear-cut as it appeared to me when I first read this, and I made a lot of assumptions based on the few reports I read. NT, you're right about the consequences of the woman's 911-call, I didn't consider that. I imagined it from her perspective, because I'm a woman. I'm also biased towards the police because I'm from a cop family and count many of them as my friends. It's an issue and I need to learn to keep it in mind before I post in these threads. Or probably stop posting in these threads altogether, they rile me up.

Take care everyone.

robeiae said:

Even if she over-reacted and said something to the effect of "there's some guy trying to break into my house!" it's still not on her at all. We tell kids and adults to call the cops all the time if they're in fear of someone or even if they see "suspicious activity." The cops--when responding to calls--are supposed to be the professionals. In this case they--or at least one of them--were not and a young man is now dead.

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I agree with this. If the woman panicked or mischaracterized what happened, then that isn't good, obviously. But it's the job of the police to investigate. They shouldn't make assumptions. When responding to a call like that, there are any number of possibilities of what could be going on.

Also, common sense suggests that if this guy had been planning on robbing or hurting the woman, he probably wouldn't stick around and then run to the police when they showed up. Running to the police is far more likely to be a request for help than anything else.

Something about this story has me praying that there wasn't a passenger thrown from the car.

asroc said:

Kerrick killed Ferrell and it was clearly not justified. I don't see any posts here questioning that.

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Why? Because charges were filed?

There may well be a trial. Have not recent events shown that video evidence might play (might have played) a vital role?

This may very well be a horrific misuse of force. And the DA would LOVE to have it on video to play for any jury.

asroc said:

I'm also biased towards the police because I'm from a cop family and count many of them as my friends. It's an issue and I need to learn to keep it in mind before I post in these threads. Or probably stop posting in these threads altogether, they rile me up.

Take care everyone.

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By the way, to add to my previous post, I don't have anything against cops. They have a job to do like anyone else. None of this reflects on Rugcat or any of the numerous honorable gentlemen and women on-board who have served as LEO's.

I don't, however, trust a criminal justice system that treats possession and sale of marijiuana more harshly than rape.

And I don't like the idea that I can't pick and choose, to be frank. Maybe I'm totally gen Y, but if I go to a doctor, a dentist, an attorney, a pastor, etc. I can check them out beforehand and make a choice. When dealing with the po-po, you don't get that, and there's absolutely nothing to protect you from getting the trigger-happy rookie or the power-tripping psycho, even if those are small percentages of the whole.

/small but vicious libertarian streak

Liosse de Velishaf said:

I note this guy has only been on the force for a max of two years. Perhaps his training was not what it should have been?

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This is a terrifying thought. Shouldn't police training be getting better with time, not worse? You know, because we learn and improve from our mistakes and stuff?

Cranky1 said:

Let's put this out there. This wasn't a random guy knocking on a door. It was a unknown Black man knocking on the home of a woman alone. I could easily imagine that it was presumed he was some rapist out on the loose, terrorizing women.

I see shadows of the Martin case.

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I wish I could remember where I read/heard that serial rapists like this almost invariably target women of their own race, and that random interracial rapes were nearly unheard of.

efreysson said:

I DO hope she blames herself.
A stranger appears at the door and she freaks out and calls in the cavalry? This is despicable.

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But the police shouldn't be considered the cavalry in the first place. It's serve and protect (with deadly force if necessary), not shoot and punish.

GeorgeK said:

One thing that I've noticed as helping is having more women on the force.

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True. Because when you have female coworkers doing the same job, you realize they're human beings, and they can take care of themselves, make mistakes, etc, just like you can.

If/when police forces are all men, it's possible they're more likely to launch into damsel in distress mode when a woman calls in about a dude on her front porch. And that's not good for anybody.

Zoombie said:

Very strongly agree with the more women on the force. More women in government and the military too.

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100% QFT.

MOD NOTE:

I bet we can continue this thread without the derail.