The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

Liam Jackson · May 15, 2005

CJ and Argile

CJ, please accept my belated welcome to AW. I hope you check out all the forums while you're here. I also hope you stay around for a long time. You have much to contribute.

Welcome Argile. I look forward to reading your posts,

Gravity · May 15, 2005

And Ken, on the same silly note, I just noticed something. Your avatar looks exactly like "Butthead" from "Beavis and Butthead", but only after Buthhead grew up, lost the braces, and got a job earning some serious jack. *G* Has anyone else pointed that out? Or just me? Just thought I'd share...

John

DTKelly · May 15, 2005

Gravity said:
And Ken, on the same silly note, I just noticed something. Your avatar looks exactly like "Butthead" from "Beavis and Butthead", but only after Buthhead grew up, lost the braces, and got a job earning some serious jack. *G* Has anyone else pointed that out? Or just me? Just thought I'd share...

John

heh heh, that was cool.

TracySutterer & GaryRogers · May 15, 2005

Hello,

This is Argile Stox. Thank You for your gracious welcome to AW. Please extend the same to Tracy Sutterer.

Honor & Respect For You,

Argile Stox

Hi everyone,

I've been reading AW for several months. I have found the posts to be interesting and informative. In fact, Argile introduced me to this board about a year ago. I had heard of AW, but not read it until then.

I have talked to some of you on the PA board. Some of you I have 'met' through Mindsight. It's good to be able to talk to you again. I look forward to our future communications.

Tracy Sutterer

NancyMehl · May 15, 2005

TracySutterer&ArgileStox said:
Hi everyone,

I've been reading AW for several months. I have found the posts to be interesting and informative. In fact, Argile introduced me to this board about a year ago. I had heard of AW, but not read it until then.

I have talked to some of you on the PA board. Some of you I have 'met' through Mindsight. It's good to be able to talk to you again. I look forward to our future communications.

Tracy Sutterer

Hi, Tracy! :welcome:

Glad to see you here!

Nancy

Lisa Maliga · May 15, 2005

to CJ

Hi CJ, :hi:

It's great that you want to share your story. And it can be done via the 'net. Just offer people your eBook. It works! This is quite a good way to get your story out there and people don't have to wait for several weeks to receive your book.
Also, P.A. doesn't earn a cent from all your hard work!
Hope this helps!

Dawno · May 15, 2005

Welcome Tracy and Argile!

DTKelly · May 15, 2005

Hello and welcome Tracy and Argile.

It's about time you got here, this thread could use some T & A. :Thumbs:

writerjenn · May 15, 2005

TracySutterer&ArgileStox said:
I have talked to some of you on the PA board. Some of you I have 'met' through Mindsight. It's good to be able to talk to you again. I look forward to our future communications.

Tracy Sutterer

(waves) Hi Tracy!

Jenn

lindylou45 · May 15, 2005

Sher2 said:
lindylou45 said:

Linda, should we stick up a PukersAnonymous page on PAS? I see much puking in our futures.

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I agree. I feel more nauseated each day!

ChristianWriter · May 15, 2005

Oops

Hi everyone,

I have a friend who signed a contract with PA (she already signed it and then excitedly told me about it). I feel terrible because I didn't have the heart to tell her she was going to be disappointed, but I didn't know how bad a publisher PA was... I thought it was just a harmless vanity POD type. My friend's work isn't fit to be published anywhere but she seems to have a knack for storytelling, and with a lot of work maybe she could write someday.

Anyway, she sent me an email today:

I hope you and the family are doing well and I hope your business is as well. I've been so so busy that I have had the time to come on site. I hope you got the announcement. I have a booksigning coming up at Hastings here in town on Saturday Jume 18th. I may have as many as six more at other Hastings stores. I'm a nervous wreak. If it wasn't for you and J----, I don't know if I would be at this point now. I'll be eternally grateful to you. The dedication page is for you and J----- and everyone else that helped me. The book is available at most of the major book sites after June 6th. You can find it also at [PA website address here]. Click on the online bookstore tab at the top and then enter Before and After in search. It will be the book on right.

If you want, I can send you a signed bookplate.

Love you and miss you.

M-----

Her book would set me back 19.95. Should I buy it? Should I send her $20 directly for the soft copy (is that legal)? Who gets the money for her book when people buy it? Will she receive any royalties? M----- is not well to do, she is only able to work part time. Have you heard of book signings at Hastings? I feel a bit helpless... we lost touch with each other for a while and suddenly she sent me the message that she was going to be published at PA.

Any ideas??

lindylou45 · May 15, 2005

CJWilkes said:
It is not just a story, but my voice.

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Do you really think you are the only PA author that felt that way about her book?

Have you ever felt so strong about a cause that you would do your very best reguardless of the trials you will endure to continue?

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Yes, the cause is getting PublishAmerica to admit they are a vanity press. I used to think it would be okay if they would change their way of doing business, but after this whole thing with Shemp, I want them to close and the partners to spend a little time at Club Fed. I've been working at this cause for almost a year now, and I will continue to work at it as long as I have to.

I am not willing to let that go.

Click to expand...

I hate to tell you this, but you've already let it go. Get your rights back and submit it to another publisher if you're that sure of it, but understand that having your book with PA means it's dead.

I literally had death threats to my family and myself by my own sisters and mother when I published my book.

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I'm sorry to hear that, but at least you didn't pull a Shemp.

My contract is for 5 more years and I will honor it to the end all the while promoting my book.

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If your contract is for five more years I'm guessing you've gotten your first royalty check. Were you surprised at the number of books that sold? Did the number of books sold on the statement match what you thought you'd sold? How many of your own books did you buy?

I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just telling you the truth. You can promote your book all you want, but if it doesn't get bookstore placement the chances of it making it are slim to none. (And one bookstore in your hometown, though good news for you, is not going to help all that much).

Yes I do feel strong about my book and will do all I can to promote it. Signature and all.

Click to expand...

Frankly, I have to say that the font size in your sig line ad is a bit tacky, but I suppose that's up to you.

lindylou45 · May 16, 2005

ChristianWriter said:
Should I buy it?

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I guess that depends on whether you want to spend $20.00 on a book that you've stated should never have been published.

Who gets the money for her book when people buy it?

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PublishAmerica gets 92% and she gets 8% until 2,000 copies have sold. From 2,001 to 10,000 PA gets 90% and she would get 10%. After 10,000 PA gets 87.5% and she would get 12.5%.

It's important to note that there are probably only two people who have sold more than 2,000 copies of their books and it's not clear as to how many of those books they purchased themselves (which would mean that they would get a discount and no royalties -- unless PA was running a special like their NYT special). If an author seems to be doing well PA terminates their contract -- ask Nancy about that.

Have I heard of booksignings at Hastings?

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Yes, but only because the PA author placed their books there on consignment. You'd have to ask your friend if that's the case. It would mean that she had purchased the books and the bookstore would take a percentage of the sale and she would get the rest.

Any ideas?

Click to expand...

Send her the URL to this site and be there for her when she finally accepts the truth.

Best of luck to her.

Percival Constantine · May 16, 2005

I stumbled upon PublishAmerica's website when I first started work on my novel a few months back. At the time, it seemed like the perfect opportunity for someone like me, and I had planned to sign with them once I completed my novel.

Luckily, I had the foresight to tell one of my friends (who, like me, wants to be a writer). Once I mentioned PublishAmerica, she told me what she had heard about them. I did a web search and I was shocked at the sheer wealth of information out there against PA.

Once I finish my novel, I know it won't be sent to PA. I'm glad there are sites like this one, so people like myself don't make a huge mistake. So thank you.

Jeff · May 16, 2005

Her book would set me back 19.95. Should I buy it? Should I send her $20 directly for the soft copy (is that legal)?

If you want to seem supportive to your friend, I suggest sending her the $20 directly. I suspect that she has already purchased some books from PA (for the Hastings signing) and she will most likely be stuck with some when it is over. You can help her recover a little of that loss by buying one of those. PA has already made their money on those books.

Boob, CJ, Argile and Tracy, welcome!

JennaGlatzer · May 16, 2005

Welcome, Tracy, Argile, Banned-Aide, and Percival! I'm just coming out of my writing cave for a moment to catch up and see if anyone posted the news that PA was out of business yet. Drat. Not yet.

CJ: You know I'm with you 100% and I think your motives are great. Even knowing how much people felt used and abused by PA, I was shocked the first time I saw PA authors with web pages saying, "Please don't buy my book." That takes a tremendous amount of guts and must be so difficult for anyone to come to that decision. While I am in awe of those who can do that, I don't fault those who don't. Turning it into an e-book, however, seems like a great solution. Does the contract allow for that?

Sher2 · May 16, 2005

victoriastrauss said:
Sher, I am guessing that your lawyer isn't an IP lawyer familiar with publishing (if I'm wrong in this guess, please forgive me).

No, he isn't, not at all, so no apologies necessary. Had he (or I) been IP savvy, trust me, this train wreck never would have left the tracks.

Christine N. · May 16, 2005

CJ
<hugs> for you. I know that writing your story was probably incredibly cathartic; if you get nothing else out of your PA experience, at least there's that. The others have already stated thing more eloquently than I, so I won't rehash.

I'll just say what I always say when people ask why we fight PA - because YOU deserve better.

Aconite · May 16, 2005

CJWilkes said:
That may be so, but my story reaches someones heart, mind, and can possibly help them. It is not just a story, but my voice.

I hope you can hear this, and that you take it into your heart: We are not our books. Our books are not us. No matter how much of ourselves we put into them, our books are never us. Your voice is independent of any book. You may choose to deliver your message through a book, but the book is not the message.

It's obvious that writing this book was important to you. It may or may not touch anyone else the same way; it may or may not be an important book to anyone else. If you get confused about what the book is--if you think the book is you, or is your message--then you start to think, "Nobody liked my book, nobody liked me" and "Nobody cared about my book, nobody cared about my message."

If you want to get your message out, then find a way to get your message out. Don't get stuck on the book as being the only way to do that. You are much more than any book. Don't limit yourself.

Ed Williams · May 16, 2005

It's Monday morning....

...and my forehead is shiny, cause I'm an sunburned as a dead rat's heiny! (Okay, okay, I know the imagery is pretty bad, but it is Monday you know).

First, Tracy, welcome. I have actually been a fan of your writing for awhile, I've read some exerpts and you present the written word beautifully. It's a pleasure having both you and Argile here, I hope y'all will post often.

Next, it has to be getting bad over in the Land of Poz. I'm getting more emails now than I ever have, and the good news is that there are a lot of people out there fighting PA. I don't think PA yet realizes how this latest move with Shemp has motivated a lot of their critics, shoving him in everyone's face again is an affront, and it's being reacted to that way. Look at what we can publicly determine - HB's call for a multi-author signing has not produced one taker. The little campout deal looks like it has died on the vine as well. PA and/or HB neither want to admit that he's damaged goods, but it's quite obvious that's the case. Moe-randa, Larry, and Curlem, you're only as good as what you allow the public to see, and y'all let the public see HB. God, how stupid can you be?

Finally, let's be sure when we make our points to people that we do it in a measured way. I have a lot of admiration for CJ, and while she might not be approaching things the way everyone would like for her to, she's an honest, terrific lady who is trying her best to deal with a tough situation. We don't need to keep telling her where she's wrong, we need to be helping her.

And with that, I'm going to actually do a little writing, imagine that!

DTKelly · May 16, 2005

Ed Williams said:
HB's call for a multi-author signing has not produced one taker. The little campout deal looks like it has died on the vine as well.

It would not surprise me if he came out and said that he's gotten a ton of emailed or PM'ed requests for the book signing and for other authors to contact him while room is still available.

But I digress, since this is the PA thread and not the HB one.

postshy · May 16, 2005

Apologies to all the new posters.....

After Ed's comments

, I hope I did not come over as being too negative about your concerns. That was not my intention. AW is a democracy, not a dictatorship (PA), I personally enjoy reading everyone's opinions and realize that we cannot always agree on everything.

Enough said!

P.S. Thank you all once again for your support (re comments on my posts). They help a bruised ego (PA's fault). May I return the compliment to all of you.

postshy

Banned-Aide · May 16, 2005

I wanted to defend CJ because I "get" where she is coming from. I write non-fiction and know the passion that moves someone to write their personal story. I also know the pain of finding out that the people you want to reach will never know your book exists because no matter how hard you try, you can't fight the PA stigma, no return policy, no books in bookstores, etc.

I also understand how an author ends up with PA. After hundreds of rejections stating the same thing; you settle. All the TRADITIONAL publishers tell you right off the bat that memoirs do not sell. Unless your name is Liz Taylor, nobody gives a rats' butt about your story. But because you know in your heart that your story will help others, you hang on to your dream.

I wish someone would tell me the name of a publisher that has the guts to take a chance on an unknown with a story to tell. Books like, Tuesday's With Morrie and A Boy Called It have been so popular and they have important stories to tell.

That is my 2 pennies on the subject.

BA

NancyMehl · May 16, 2005

Aconite said:
I hope you can hear this, and that you take it into your heart: We are not our books. Our books are not us. No matter how much of ourselves we put into them, our books are never us. Your voice is independent of any book. You may choose to deliver your message through a book, but the book is not the message.

It's obvious that writing this book was important to you. It may or may not touch anyone else the same way; it may or may not be an important book to anyone else. If you get confused about what the book is--if you think the book is you, or is your message--then you start to think, "Nobody liked my book, nobody liked me" and "Nobody cared about my book, nobody cared about my message."

If you want to get your message out, then find a way to get your message out. Don't get stuck on the book as being the only way to do that. You are much more than any book. Don't limit yourself.

This may well be one of the most important comments I've ever seen posted about writing. I hope everyone really got it.

I had to learn the hard way once that I'm not my job. The same thing is true with our books. Not understanding this may be the number one reason some writers give up.

You are not your book. You are a writer. Writers write.

Books come and go.

Keep writing.

Nancy

victoriastrauss · May 16, 2005

JennaGlatzer said:
Turning it into an e-book, however, seems like a great solution. Does the contract allow for that?

No. PA owns electronic rights (this fact is sneakily buried in a clause unrelated to rights, so it's easy to miss), and in fact, made a big stink when a dissatisfied author decided to put his book up on his own website and sell electronic copies. This was a couple of years ago, and I don't know if they'd make such a fuss now--they have other things to occupy them--but it probably isn't worth taking the risk.

Welcome to all new members! If you show up and don't get a blizzard of "hellos", that doesn't mean we aren't glad you've joined us--discussion here moves very fast, and people don't always pause to say "hi". Nevertheless, we welcome everyone, whether you're a dissatisfied PA author, a PA author who is happy with your experience, or just an interested bystander.

I'd like to ask that we try not to post messages that just say "Welcome" or "Hi". This is SUCH a long thread already. Send a PM or give a rep point instead (for those who haven't yet discovered rep points, click on "User CP" at the top left of your screen).

- Victoria

The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

Heathen Horde Elder

Seen 'em come, seen 'em go

The Rememberer

Coffee Fanatics

She Who Resonates...

Shiny!

The Rememberer

The Stooge Slayer

ChristianWriter

The Stooge Slayer

The Stooge Slayer

Percival Constantine

Quixote without a cause

wishes you happiness

Auroraless ExPAtriate

haz a shiny new book cover

The Rememberer

She Who Resonates...

Writer Beware Goddess