The Historical Info-Dump

Sonsofthepharaohs · Jun 13, 2014

areteus said:
Another point I would make about info dumps is that you should make the distinction between 'infodumps' (bad) and exposition (good if done well, if done bad they become infodumps).

^This.

Infodumps, in my opinion, are always bad. It's when the author halts the narrative for a moment to explain, almost like forcing you to read a footnote, which jumps the reader out of the story. Exposition skillfully handled does not do this, and therefore is not an infodump.

I try not to do it at all costs, and if a reader tells me something comes across as an infodump, i cut it, or find another way to get the information across.

Maxx · Jun 13, 2014

Kallithrix said:
^This.

Infodumps, in my opinion, are always bad. It's when the author halts the narrative for a moment to explain, almost like forcing you to read a footnote, which jumps the reader out of the story. Exposition skillfully handled does not do this, and therefore is not an infodump.

I try not to do it at all costs, and if a reader tells me something comes across as an infodump, i cut it, or find another way to get the information across.

I guess my technique is to have the info in the dump be important immediately to the MC. Moreover some of the info may be relatively particular ie. not so much history as events as opportunities for my opportunistic MC to use to thier advantage. Or so they suppose until history happens and the opportunity vanishes. And history dumps the MC and their now out-of-date info.

Sonsofthepharaohs · Jun 14, 2014

Maxx said:
I guess my technique is to have the info in the dump be important immediately to the MC. Moreover some of the info may be relatively particular ie. not so much history as events as opportunities for my opportunistic MC to use to thier advantage. Or so they suppose until history happens and the opportunity vanishes. And history dumps the MC and their now out-of-date info.

But an infodump doesn't have to be about historical events. It can be going into detail about anything, from the correct use of a particular type of spoon to the reason why certain character is gunshy, having come back from the wars where he lost his best friend.... etc. Any paragraph that goes into too much explanation, so that it becomes noticeable as a break from the present narrative and starts to interrupt the scene, is an infodump, whether it's relevant or not. An infodump can be relevant, in fact most of them are, but they're still intrusive and unnecessary. Otherwise it's just called exposition.

Wilde_at_heart · Jun 14, 2014

gothicangel said:
Good point!

Snap.
I think the trick is in showing the reader what this world was like, through the eyes of our characters. I believe there is a difference between my MC describing what he sees as he rides over the causeway on the Antonine Wall, and info-dumping about archeology and the 30 year history of the frontier.

Absolutely.

Admittedly, I read a lot more actual history than Hist Fic, so when I do read the latter it's for setting, characters and story rather than the nitty-gritty facts. I like to feel that I'm there, in that time period and pages of listed events would get in the way of that.

When it comes to readers I know, the ones who read Roman Hist Fic read loads of it; I know very few, if any, who've only read the odd RHF (for me so far, it's been limited to Asterix comics :tongue

).

ishtar'sgate · Jun 14, 2014

Maxx said:
I guess my technique is to have the info in the dump be important immediately to the MC.

Exactly. In my medieval novel I could have 'dumped' info about how plague victims were dealt with. Instead of doing that I had my MC watch from her window at dusk. She saw the plague carts rolling through the street below, saw people crying and bringing out dead family members to be carried away and saw the callousness of the cartmen as they tossed the dead onto big piles.

It has far more impact from the MC's POV because her own feelings come into play and it's not just a rehearsal of historical facts.

benbenberi · Jun 14, 2014

Kallithrix said:
Infodumps, in my opinion, are always bad.

Indeed, just so.

Because the good ones aren't info dumps, they're exposition, and the really good ones are so smooth you hardly even notice they're happening; you just suddenly seem to know & understand a lot more story-stuff than you did a little while ago.

gothicangel · Jun 14, 2014

Wilde_at_heart said:
When it comes to readers I know, the ones who read Roman Hist Fic read loads of it; I know very few, if any, who've only read the odd RHF (for me so far, it's been limited to Asterix comics ).

I love Asterix.

Sonsofthepharaohs · Jun 14, 2014

ishtar'sgate said:
Exactly. In my medieval novel I could have 'dumped' info about how plague victims were dealt with. Instead of doing that I had my MC watch from her window at dusk. She saw the plague carts rolling through the street below, saw people crying and bringing out dead family members to be carried away and saw the callousness of the cartmen as they tossed the dead onto big piles.

It has far more impact from the MC's POV because her own feelings come into play and it's not just a rehearsal of historical facts.

But what you just described is NOT an infodump - it's a scene that SHOWS rather than tells information, and telling is the hallmark of an infodump. So while you said you agree with the poster who justified infodumps by saying they made them relevant, what you're really saying is 'don't do infodumps - write good exposition.'

This is really just all semantics, I know, but.... *tears hair out*

ishtar'sgate · Jun 14, 2014

Kallithrix said:
But what you just described is NOT an infodump - it's a scene that SHOWS rather than tells information, and telling is the hallmark of an infodump. So while you said you agree with the poster who justified infodumps by saying they made them relevant, what you're really saying is 'don't do infodumps - write good exposition.'

This is really just all semantics, I know, but.... *tears hair out*

I know what you mean. Many people perceive all information to be an infodump no matter how it's delivered.

Flicka · Jun 15, 2014

I don't know, but I never viewed historical info differently from any other info. Just like you need to unwind a character's backstory through exposition rather than info-dump it, you need to expose historical facts through exposition. But you need to pass the info on to the reader somehow, preferably without them noticing.

It's much harder for the writer, of course, but good writing isn't easy, is it?

Maxx · Jun 16, 2014

ishtar'sgate said:
I know what you mean. Many people perceive all information to be an infodump no matter how it's delivered.

It's kind of like the strange conventions around cyberpunk-type material: as long as the information is "hacked" or cranked or whacked straight into the brain of somebody in the story -- well its not an infodump. In fact I think the non-infodump is sometimes literally called a "dump" of some sort. In historically-oriented writing, the convention is the opposite in that potentally any information relayed to the reader (rather than electro-prognosticated into their virtual memory sac) that has some non-current content (eg. people used to hurry out of service stations to service your car) has the potentially to be seen negatively as an "infodump."

The Historical Info-Dump

Sonsofthepharaohs

Still writing the ancient Egyptian tetralogy

Maxx

Got the hang of it, here

Sonsofthepharaohs

Still writing the ancient Egyptian tetralogy

Wilde_at_heart

υπείκωphobe

ishtar'sgate

living in the past

benbenberi

practical experience, FTW

gothicangel

Toughen up.

Sonsofthepharaohs

Still writing the ancient Egyptian tetralogy

ishtar'sgate

living in the past

Flicka

Dull Old Person

Maxx

Got the hang of it, here

The Historical Info-Dump

Still writing the ancient Egyptian tetralogy

Got the hang of it, here

Still writing the ancient Egyptian tetralogy

&#965;&#960;&#949;&#943;&#954;&#969;phobe

living in the past

practical experience, FTW

Toughen up.

Still writing the ancient Egyptian tetralogy

living in the past

Dull Old Person

Got the hang of it, here

υπείκωphobe