Do you edit before you submit your work?

I do. I edited before posting up my fanfics on archives etc back in those days and I edit before I submit my pro work now. I'll usually have done at least some editing before early drafts go to beta readers. I've sometimes had critique on first draft work, but always with the intention of doing my own editing that the critique feedback would be only part of, not the whole thing. (That's usually big picture feedback anyway, not line edits.)

I don't say that means it doesn't need editing some more after it's submitted. That's the case for almost everyone. I go as far as I can on my own, and with my beta readers.

That doesn't mean I can claim that every writer edits, because I see people who deal with the slush pile say that many things they see are not edited. Maybe that adds up to "most writers", but I'll bet it doesn't mean most published writers. But to say that "no writers really do edit before they submit for criticism" is clearly wrong.

Bwuh?

Where are you getting the impression that writers don't edit their work before submitting?? I edit my MSs twice before passing them to my betas, who then cheerfully point out the numerous mistakes, along with other fun stuff like plot holes, character inconsistencies, and erratic pacing. Then I edit again. Pass to more betas. Edit again. Betas. Edit. Betas. Edit. Polish. Agent. Edit. Agent. Edit. Agent. Edit. And so on and so forth.

I'm not sure how many rounds of editing is the norm for most writers, but I'm pretty certain most writers do at least one.

Catcher said:

Do youj agree or not?

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Ij disagree completely.

Ij edit everything many times before anyone else ever sees it at all, and so do all the other writers Ij know.

I've posted pictures of my mss as I edit - there is so much red ink on the page it looks like a crime scene. I edit my posts here, on FB, and if I could, I would on Twitter.

My books go through at least three thorough edits before I send them on to my editor(s) and I honestly can't imagine even entertaining the notion of sending out anything unedited.

Putputt said:

Bwuh?

Where are you getting the impression that writers don't edit their work before submitting??

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Yeah. I'd be interested in more context as well.

I love my red pens. Though I do edit as I go, I also edit several times after. Proofread, clean up, set aside, edit again.

Work I put up for crit will likely be an early draft, but it won't be a sloppy one.

If I'm doing a critique, and find that most of my time is spent correcting basic mistakes in every single paragraph, I'm no longer able to see the actual story through all the red. That sort of wasted time doesn't help anyone.

Catcher said:

I don't think most writers do, to be honest. I thin tey look over it, sure, but they don't really fully edit it until they got some distance from it. So no writers really do edit before they submit for criticism. Do youj agree or not?

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I feel silly even answering this. And I'm curious to see what Catcher's response is to everyone's answers.

But yes, I do edit my work. Doesn't matter if its for a critique, beta read, or submission, I make sure its clean of all errors before it leaves my computer.

And I'm one of the few who doesn't subscribe to the "set it aside to distance yourself from it" rule. But that's only because I have such a bad short term memory, I could read it 10 times over and each time it seems new to me.

We have a very brief opportunity to impress these agents, they get what, 30 queries a week? If they ask you for your manuscript and it's just full of errors and mistakes left and right, I can almost guarantee you the next person they read is going to be polished and blow yours out of the water.

You should absolutely edit your manuscript before sending it out! Maybe 30 times! You're probably still going to have mistaked, it happens, but you need to send your BEST work into an agent. If you don't you're going to get rejected.

I know if I were an agent and I got a manuscript that was obviously unedited (and trust me, it will be obvious) I would consider them either lazy, arrogant, or that they just didn't care, and I wouldn't want to represent anyone of those types of people.

As many others have pointed out, a professional writer (or one who is serious about their work) will always edit what they've written before letting anyone else read it. It's just plain wrong to send out a piece that's filled with typos and grammatical errors, or even more "advanced" errors, like plot holes, bad characterization, lousy dialogue, lack of description, and so forth.

Personally, I edit my novels multiple times before letting a beta-reader have them. I make extensive use of spellcheck, but I don't rely on it, because it can't tell the difference between "their," "they're," and "there," and it can't tell me if I skipped a letter, turning "they" into "hey." This kind of editing requires printing the manuscript and actually reading it line-by-line. Is it a lot of work? Sure! Is it tedious and boring? Absolutely. But it's part of the job.

If you want to be a writer, you have to learn to edit your own work. It's like when you learn to play the violin . . . you have to learn how to tune your instrument, otherwise when you play, it will sound terrible. Tuning is hard and not the most fun thing to do, but it's a vital part of learning to play the violin. So is revising and editing.

I wouldn't dream of showing anyone my unedited work.

Catcher said:

I thin tey look over it, sure, but they don't really fully edit it until they got some distance from it.

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In a way, this part is true. It's why we recommend putting a story down after you finish it. Getting distance over time helps many people when they do come back to edit; they can see better through reader eyes than writer eyes with some time. To consider "distance" as "in the hands of an agent, publisher, or reader," though? No writer who has a clue what they're doing will do that. First drafts are first drafts for a reason. They need cleaning, no matter how clean you write in the first place or if you edited as you went.

Me, I don't even give my betas a copy until it's been edited at least once. I suspect the majority of us on here will do that. Are there people who do slap "the end" on a piece of work and send it out? Of course. At the end of NaNoWriMo, you see warnings and blog posts everywhere telling excited writers not to do that. But to say no writers edit first? You're discrediting every single one who knows the difference between a first draft and a fourth draft. "Never deal in absolutes."

I quote from the Share Your Work thread sticky:

19. Every item posted for critique should be as good as you can make it. Look for spelling errors, typos, punctuation errors, point of view (POV) changes, verb tense changes, pronouns with unclear antecedents, cliches, etc. before you post.
20. Don't post a first draft or something you just dashed off last night. Clean it up before you post it.
21. Use spellcheck and even grammar check, but don't absolutely rely on them.

Even on these boards, especially for sharing your work, you should make sure your work is as good as possible.

Eye donut usuallee edit b4 submiting anniething

Catcher said:

I don't think most writers do, to be honest. I thin tey look over it, sure, but they don't really fully edit it until they got some distance from it. So no writers really do edit before they submit for criticism. Do youj agree or not?

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OMG, I edit the piss out of it.

Ketzel said:

I don't think this question was meant as a joke. I've noticed Catcher's posts in the "200 Words Or Less" threads and, to me, it appears that he or she does no editing before offering up work for critique. I'm wondering if this thread wasn't an attempt to validate that approach, as several people have already indicated quite clearly that the work needs editing.

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This was my thought too.

Of coruse not.

whatever I vomit up onto the page is good enough, right?

Catcher said:

I do not mean that nobody edits you misunderstand me. I mean that I dont put it hours of editing before I submit for critique. Sorry!!!!! I dont do huge edit before I submit.

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You should. When I am asked to crit something, I expect it to be as error-free, both in terms of structure and text, as the writer can make it.

When I see many problems, I turn it right around and tell them it's not ready for crit.

My time is just as precious as anyone else's.

I was looking at this a totally different way until I read the phrase "for criticism".

I don't edit my CreateSpace document much before submitting it for a proof because I think it is easier to find errors in the paper version. It only costs $3 for the proof, so it makes more sense for me to submit the work, get the proof then edit-- rather than spend a ton of money on ink and paper. Then I make the changes, resubmit, and publish the real thing.

I do have a couple people that I give the proofs to in order for them to edit also, but they are good friends who understand the difference between assisting me to make a better book, and expecting the book to be perfect. I felt terrible that I did not run a spell check before giving the last book to my friend for her to proofread.

When I got to the "for criticism" of the first post, that all went out the window!

Medievalist said:

My time is just as precious as anyone else's.

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This.

Why would you handicap your work like this? If I'm tripping over misspellings, bad grammar and incoherent phrasing I'm not going to keep reading.

It may be a damned fine book but this could sink it in a second to the reader. I'm not going to wade through it if I'm hitting speed bumps every paragraph.

WHY wouldn't you put your best work out there, even if it's "only" for critique?

WHY?

Catcher said:

Do you edit before you submit your work?
I don't think most writers do, to be honest. I thin tey look over it, sure, but they don't really fully edit it until they got some distance from it. So no writers really do edit before they submit for criticism. Do youj agree or not?

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I do not mean that nobody edits you misunderstand me. I mean that I dont put it hours of editing before I submit for critique. Sorry!!!!! I dont do huge edit before I submit.

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I'm not sure anyone misunderstood you. You asked if we agreed that "no writers really do edit before they submit for criticism." Now you say you really meant that you don't. It seems you may have proved the point of the posters in this thread; editing in advance of submitting your writing for anything is a necessary step for both your sake and the sake of the readers.

Having critiqued some of your work Catcher I'd strongly advise that you abandon this ideology immediately.


It'll be a snowball effect. At firt it wont be so bad, but ten et bcoums unrigonzilble.

Catcher said:

I do not mean that nobody edits you misunderstand me. I mean that I dont put it hours of editing before I submit for critique. Sorry!!!!! I dont do huge edit before I submit.

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As my son's baseball coaches emphasize, you play the game the same way you practice.

In other words, if you goof off, don't put much effort into practicing then that's exactly how you'll approach the game -- with a second rate, uncaring attitude.

Give editing 100% effort whether its for critiquing or publishing. In fact, if you've done all the editing before it ever gets seen by anyone, then there'll be less work and worry when it comes time to submit it for real.