A GAME OF THRONES (HBO) -- POSSIBLE SPOILERS

jvc · Jun 3, 2013

A joke that is going around twitter at the moment: Why does Game of Thrones author George RR Martin not use twitter? Because he killed off all 140 characters.

Also, this link to an article by George RR Martin himself about the recent episode.

I found that totally confusing, as I couldn't fathom how he didn't remember what happened, or what was about to happen. But, I suppose, if you kill off as many characters as he does in a book, you probably won't remember how you did the deed.

DreamWeaver · Jun 3, 2013

jvc said:
A joke that is going around twitter at the moment: Why does Game of Thrones author George RR Martin not use twitter? Because he killed off all 140 characters.

Satori1977 · Jun 3, 2013

DreamWeaver said:
Just saw on a T-shirt: Hello. My name is Arya Stark. You killed my father. Prepare to die.

Oooh, I want that shirt!

thothguard51 said:
Me, of all the blood and death that has happened in the books, and on the TV show, Ned Stark is the one that still gets me. I hadn't read the books yet, I was unsullied, and when Ned got beheaded, I remember I jumped up from the chair and paced for a few moments trying to understand what the fuck just happened.

Then I realized how naive Ned was and the consequences it would cause. And I still blame Ned Stark on all this trouble. His honor and sense of right from wrong led to the down fall of the House Stark, and many others to follow, both those who are innoscent and those who are not.

This. I was so completely shocked by Ned's death, and it still bothers me. I really didn't think it would happen. I always figured him for the hero of this series. Someone was going to save him. Any other show, that is what would have happened. I guess I am so used to tv shows where the main characters are so close to death all the time, but are saved last minute.

Then I started reading the books, and again his death really affected me, even though this time I knew he wouldn't get out of it.

So maybe I should have expected these deaths, but I didn't. Mostly because of Ned's death. Robb and Catelyn were supposed to avenge his death, and win the crown. How naive!

One thing this has taught me is that no one is truly safe. I won't be surprised if all the people I love die and Joffrey remains king. Him and his family never getting theirs - because you know what, that happens a lot in life. GRRM sure knows how to pack an emotional punch to the gut.

thothguard51 · Jun 3, 2013

In that Martin article on this episode, I liked his last line. "If they kill Tyrion, I am none with the show. Done..." Not sure how true it is, but he also mentioned he is still trying to get over Ned Starks death from season 1.

Did Martin perhaps inadvertently give away his favorite character? Surely he will not kill off his favorite?

KateSmash · Jun 3, 2013

*cough*It's The Onion. If GRRM wrote it, he meant it as a joke

dfwtinman · Jun 3, 2013

From the link "But reading something and seeing something are two different things."

So, a great writer can't match the impact of an Hbo series? *grumble*

CrastersBabies · Jun 3, 2013

Tyrion IS Martin's favorite character.

He's stated at much at multiple book signings.

dfwtinman · Jun 3, 2013

My adult son is a big fan of the show but hasn't read the books. I've been on my best behavior for 3 seasons, never so much as hinting at the events at the Red Wedding. Yesterday, 3 minutes after the silent credits, this was his text to me:
"What the fuck?!" (Remember I said adult son).

I loved it! When does TV ever truly surprise us?

And for folks upset about the death of Grey Wind, take note. In the book they cut off the heads of both Robb and Grey Wind, and them sew Grey Wind's head onto Robb's decapitated body.

ETA: It took my son to point out that Walder Frey is
most widely known for playing Hogwarts caretaker Argus Filch in the Harry Potter film franchise.

dfwtinman · Jun 3, 2013

I may go straight to H E Double Toothpicks for this, but ...

Hitler Finds Out About the Red Wedding

http://youtu.be/QKqF8lg_M7A

lastlittlebird · Jun 3, 2013

JustinlDew said:
Back from my day long moping session. Now I've got two questions.

1. Why didn't Jon recognize his brother's wolves? "Gee, two dires wolves, one black, one white, I wonder who those could belong to?"

2. Why exactly did he leave? He had dealt with the wildlings aside from one and we know his girlfriend was on his side, it just didn't make sense to run away.

I tried really hard not to have spoilers here, but there's a bit of discussion about concurrent stuff in the books.

I don't think we really had time to know if he recognised the wolves or not. In the book they all think by this point that Bran and Rickon were killed by Theon... they haven't said that explicitly here (I think it's just been said that they are "missing", presumed dead or captured), but I think the assumption is that, either way, the wolves got away, so even if Jon recognised them, he would assume they are wandering around loose without the boys. Remember he doesn't know about Osha, or that Hodor carries Bran around. The last he heard about Bran, the boy was bedbound for life.... he has no reason to think he would turn up hundreds of miles from his last known whereabouts.

Also, presuming that Jon is still loyal to the night's watch (I think after his actions here that's a fair assumption) his first duty is to get the heck over to them and let them know that Mance is approaching from the rear.
I don't know if you caught that they have WAY fewer men than he was letting on to the wildings (at some point early on someone said "less than 1000 in total" and that's across three castles and before half of them were killed beyond the wall... and of that, a lot are very old or very young) but when you factor in the huge numbers Mance is leading and the giants and other things he's got in his army.... well, even if Jon had mostly defeated the wildings in his group, he can't afford to be tied down guarding them or whatever... and frankly, he can't even really trust Ygritte. He has to make it back. Or the wall may fall.

I wonder how much of what's going to happen in this storyline will play out in the next episode, actually...

thothguard51 · Jun 4, 2013

Just personal opinion, the battle for the wall will not play out till next season. Too much story line to prep for...

The_Ink_Goddess · Jun 4, 2013

^ Uhm, that link is The Onion. And Martin definitely remembers the Red Wedding. He found it so destroying to write that he left it until last.

robeiae · Jun 4, 2013

thothguard51 said:
Me, of all the blood and death that has happened in the books, and on the TV show, Ned Stark is the one that still gets me. I hadn't read the books yet, I was unsullied, and when Ned got beheaded, I remember I jumped up from the chair and paced for a few moments trying to understand what the fuck just happened.

Then I realized how naive Ned was and the consequences it would cause. And I still blame Ned Stark on all this trouble. His honor and sense of right from wrong led to the down fall of the House Stark, and many others to follow, both those who are innoscent and those who are not.

Nope. Catelyn is the key, not Ned. From Jon to everything that followed, she destroyed her family, brought ruin down upon it because she was less noble than her husband and sons.

Parametric · Jun 4, 2013

robeiae said:
Nope. Catelyn is the key, not Ned. From Jon to everything that followed, she destroyed her family, brought ruin down upon it because she was less noble than her husband and sons.

You're right! Catelyn executed Ned herself, then she tricked Robb into declaring war on the Lannisters, she sacked Winterfell, she broke Robb's promise to the Freys and killed his bannerman Karstark, all the while holding Sansa hostage in King's Landing and violently abusing her, finally forcing her to marry a Lannister. And for her last move, she killed Robb and Talisa herself and then cut her own throat. :tongue

Myrealana · Jun 4, 2013

thothguard51 said:
Me, of all the blood and death that has happened in the books, and on the TV show, Ned Stark is the one that still gets me. I hadn't read the books yet, I was unsullied, and when Ned got beheaded, I remember I jumped up from the chair and paced for a few moments trying to understand what the fuck just happened.

I read the books long before there was even talk of a TV series.

I didn't believe what I was reading at Ned's execution. I went back and read the chapters before again, then went forward to the next one, hoping it would turn out to be Sansa's bad dream or something.

He was the HERO! He wasn't supposed to die! I read and re-read the chapters leading up to it, trying to work out how it could be undone, or how it was all a trick because it just wasn't right.

As I watch the show, and I know certain things are coming, they still hit me like a punch in the chest - Ned, the RW, Jaime's hand...

Albedo · Jun 4, 2013

Now we're all debriefing. Who else got stung by dastardly internet trolls leading up to Ep. 9 despite all attempts to avoid spoilers?

robeiae · Jun 4, 2013

Parametric said:
You're right! Catelyn executed Ned herself, then she tricked Robb into declaring war on the Lannisters, she sacked Winterfell, she broke Robb's promise to the Freys and killed his bannerman Karstark, all the while holding Sansa hostage in King's Landing and violently abusing her, finally forcing her to marry a Lannister. And for her last move, she killed Robb and Talisa herself and then cut her own throat.

Look at the plot lines. Catelyn's actions precipitated more bad things than those of Ned or anyone else. Ostracizing Jon Snow, pushing Ned to accept the King's offer to make him Hand, taking Tyrion hostage, helping Jaime escape, ignoring her other children, and so on.

dragonjax · Jun 4, 2013

dfwtinman said:
I may go straight to H E Double Toothpicks for this, but ...

Hitler Finds Out About the Red Wedding

http://youtu.be/QKqF8lg_M7A

This is right up there with the 140 characters comment and the Arya Stark t-shirt. BRILLIANT.

Satori1977 · Jun 4, 2013

Tyrion is my favorite too. I will lose it if he dies.

dragonjax · Jun 4, 2013

robeiae said:
Look at the plot lines. Catelyn's actions precipitated more bad things than those of Ned or anyone else. Ostracizing Jon Snow, pushing Ned to accept the King's offer to make him Hand, taking Tyrion hostage, helping Jaime escape, ignoring her other children, and so on.

I'm with you 1,000%. Ned's honor got him killed in King's Landing, yes. But it was Catelyn attempting to play the game of thrones by pushing Ned to become the Hand that set everything in motion, as well as her cold hatred of Jon and Theon. Of course, if Ned had told Catelyn the truth about Jon's parentage, then Cat's hatred probably wouldn't have taken hold.

And, if you think about it, none of this truly would have happened if Robert hadn't led a rebellion against the mad king. Of course, everyone in King's Landing would be burned to a crisp, but c'est la vie.

Oh, wait - then the entire house of Targaryan would have been destroyed, which would have left the Iron Throne empty. And that would have started a war to see who would be the king. But there would have been no Jaime and no Dany (dead in the King's Landing Roast), and possibly no Cersei (depending on whether she would have been married off to someone in King's Landing). Hmm. Would the Starks have supported the Baratheons? Would the Tyrells have joined with the Lannisters?

Oh, wait again - it's all moot.

Parametric · Jun 4, 2013

robeiae said:
Look at the plot lines. Catelyn's actions precipitated more bad things than those of Ned or anyone else. Ostracizing Jon Snow, pushing Ned to accept the King's offer to make him Hand, taking Tyrion hostage, helping Jaime escape, ignoring her other children, and so on.

Does she really precipitate more bad things than anyone else in the series? Aerys attempted to burn down King's Landing with five million people inside the walls. The Mountain is a rapist and psychopath who slaughtered Elia Martell's infant children. Cersei assassinated her own husband to cover up her incestuous affair with her brother. Joffrey tortures and murders prostitutes for fun. Walder Frey massacred an entire hall full of northerners at a wedding after offering them guest right, including having a pregnant woman repeatedly stabbed in the stomach. Tywin Lannister will casually order huge slaughters. Catelyn ... gives political advice that sometimes turns out to be wrong? :Huh:

dolores haze · Jun 4, 2013

dfwtinman said:
Hitler Finds Out About the Red Wedding

http://youtu.be/QKqF8lg_M7A

Oh, I cackled all the way through that. Brilliant!

Kaiser-Kun · Jun 4, 2013

robeiae said:
Look at the plot lines. Catelyn's actions precipitated more bad things than those of Ned or anyone else. Ostracizing Jon Snow, pushing Ned to accept the King's offer to make him Hand, taking Tyrion hostage, helping Jaime escape, ignoring her other children, and so on.

I'm currently re-reading A Game of Thrones (and believe me, you enjoy it more the second time, when you can see all the foreshadowing), and indeed Catelyn seems to be one of the dumbest characters, right up there with Ned. Taking Tyrion hostage was pretty much the stupidest thing she could have done.

robeiae · Jun 4, 2013

Parametric said:
Catelyn ... gives political advice that sometimes turns out to be wrong?

Freeing Jaime and taking Tyrion captive was not "political advice." Nor was treating Jon like shit, nor was ignoring the needs of her other children.

But really, I'm just countering Thothguard's blaming of Ned for the sake of all the Ned fans out there...like me.

Catelyn, Catelyn, Catelyn...we hates it, my precious, we hates it!

dolores haze · Jun 4, 2013

robeiae said:
Catelyn's actions precipitated more bad things...

dragonjax said:
But it was Catelyn attempting to play the game of thrones...

Parametric said:
Does she really precipitate more bad things than anyone else in the series...

You are all correct. It's her pride, her wisdom, her many failings, her ambition, her ferocity, etc., that makes her one of the best characters. Ned, like Robb, was so one-note and dull, and both of them far dimmer than Catelyn.

A GAME OF THRONES (HBO) -- POSSIBLE SPOILERS

Fearsome Dragon Mod

Shakespearean Fool

Listening to the Voices In My Head

A Gentleman of a refined age...

this was a triumph

Cubic Zirconia in the rough

Burninator!

Cubic Zirconia in the rough

Cubic Zirconia in the rough

avem narrans

A Gentleman of a refined age...

we're gonna make it out of the fire

Touch and go

I aim to misbehave

Alex

Touch and go

I write stuff and break boards.

Listening to the Voices In My Head

I write stuff and break boards.

international guttersnipe

!

Touch and go

international guttersnipe