[Publisher] Writers AMuse Me / WAMM

"No money up front" is the very minimum standard for any publisher or agent. That's the line in the sand.

So ... these fellows have met the very minimum. I'm more interested in where and how they exceed the minimum.

to me, "no money up front" is misleading, because the truth is, "no money ever". They've never told me to "buy" anything. They've never charged a fee. They want me to make money and my book to do well.
More specifically, my royalties are 62.5%. I have been paid quarterly for royalties. Their editing was excellent, I believe. (and not easy, either; editing was hard work, very thorough and sometimes downright painful, but it was without a doubt in the book's best interest.) They have three editors and all three were involved at some point in production of my book. For a small press, they market as many places as they can find. I have been very pleased.

Whether that moves the line or not, I don't know. I do realize that a small start-up is a risk and they most certainly should be vetted by the awesome folks here. Questions should absolutely be answered. I believe this will only help their credibility. They have just had their one year anniversary and have a ways to go before it's "safe", I understand, but I chose to take the risk and haven't regretted it.

I just want you to know my experience, which was a pleasing one. Their contract's rights and royalties are generous, they are generous and they work their butts off. they know they are a small fish and they know it takes a lot of hard work to get to be a bigger fish.
I don't know all the ins and outs of their business so probably can't answer much more than what I know as one of their authors. They did a fine job with my book in all aspects and have treated me and my book respectably.

Based on Stew21's report, I submitted my trunked novel to them this evening. Less than a half hour later I had a request for a full with a promise of a response within a week. In this business, that's light speed.

In fairness, I will say this, It's always nice to want bigger and better. I would love to be on a bookshelf in a big store. It would be nice to have a big place give a big review, but I don't have those things. they are working toward making bigger and better things happen and I'm comfortable and okay with that. Growing a business is hard work. I knew going in that I wasn'tjumping into "the big time" and I was fine with that. I got what I needed and wanted with them - a caring press with my best interest in mind.
Expectations have everything to do with it.

I went with a small startup press in the 1980s after a bad experience with a big one. We grew together. The "two year" thing doesn't bother me. I'll be happy if I last two more years.

I love bookstores, but having a book in a book store does not guarantee more sales than not having a book in a book store. To me, its a vanity issue anymore, a bragging right...

I understand the rule of waiting two years when the publisher is new. However, if everybody followed that rule, how would the publisher grow? They'd have no manuscripts whatsoever!

It isn't a rule and it isn't new. It's a suggestion, and it is made with the authors interests in mind--this being an author's forum. As with any small business a good 1/4 of small presses will close within 2 years. This outcome is not good for authors.

All of which relates in no way to this specific publisher. It is just the stats.

Actually, having a book in a bookstore usually leads to orders-of-magnitude more sales.

And ... where a new publisher gets the works for its first two years is by being so well-tied-in to the world of books and authors that they're able to convince enough already-selling pros to go with them. This is before opening up the doors and accepting new submissions.

New authors, established publisher, no problem.
Established authors, new publisher, no problem.
New authors, new publisher, watch out.

thothguard51 said:

I love bookstores, but having a book in a book store does not guarantee more sales than not having a book in a book store. To me, its a vanity issue anymore, a bragging right...

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James D. Macdonald said:

Actually, having a book in a bookstore usually leads to orders-of-magnitude more sales.

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True, Jim.

Over half of books sold (exact proportions depend on genre) are now sold online. But nearly half of those books sold online are bought because the people buying them first saw them in a physical bookshop.

Having your books on shelves will make a significant difference to your sales. This has nothing to do with vanity or bragging.

Jersey Chick said:

I don't see it as a comparison between PA and WAMM. I read it to mean that just because a press doesn't ask for money upfront, doesn't necessarily mean they aren't a vanity pub.

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This is exactly what I meant to say. I completely apologize if I in any way sounded like I thought WAMM and PA were comparable to each other.

At the time I jumped into the conversation, most of the comments seemed to center around the aspects of WAMM that are standard of any press that isn't an outright scam or vanity operation. They're also positives that are often listed by presses that'll take anything -- "those big publishers won't let you control your cover, they'll make you wait forever for a release, ect."

In other words, to me, they aren't solid arguments for why WAMM is a good choice. Tell me about how the editing was professional or how they're getting books sold rather than relying on authors to do the selling. This is the stuff that makes a small press better than some guy who just converts your manuscript to EPUB, slaps a cover together in ten seconds, and takes half your profits for the privilege.

I don't argue that anyone with WAMM made a poor choice or shouldn't be happy with them. All I meant to say was that based on what posters had presented in the thread at that point, I didn't see what made WAMM stand out. I can see there are a lot more comments coming in explaining in more detail why their authors are happy, and I think that's great.

Best of luck with all your books.

TrixieBelden said:

Changing the thread title was a little nit-picky I think.

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Why? If you look at the thread titles in BR&BC, you'll find that they all conform to a uniform standard. This ensures clarity. I can't imagine why you think making the thread title conform to all the rest of the thread titles is 'nit-picky'.

TrixieBelden said:

Changing the thread title was a little nit-picky I think.

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It was first changed by CaoPaux to add the descriptive metadata identifying them as a publisher, then it was changed by MacAllister to explain the otherwise confusing use of initials.

Both are standard practices for Bewares, Recommendations, and Background check, and have been for years.

There was nothing "nit-picky" about it it, but should it continue to disturb you, feel free to complain to MacAllister.

TrixieBelden said:

I started this thread because I couldn't figure out what they do very easily from the website which to me is always a bad sign. So many people are shouting their praises but no one had addressed how unprofessional the website is and if that is any indication of anything. Changing the thread title was a little nit-picky I think.
This particular area of AW is always full of debate- that's the nature of it. To sit around and complain about who compared what to what is so dumb.

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They've changed their website. Have you gone back to look at it? Veinglory did and mentioned it. We know what they do; that's what's being discussed now. Threads here do that - evolve. Question, clarify, discuss.

Whatever your reasons for starting this thread, doesn't have anything to do with what the thread will do from that moment forward. Now people are discussing them as a start-up.

As per usual, people who have had dealings with them are sharing their experiences and people in the industry are questioning them; that's what we do here. I'm not really sure I understand your post.

The thread title is changed as per standards in BRBC. Nit-picky or not, it was done for accuracy.

Old Hack said:

Over half of books sold (exact proportions depend on genre) are now sold online. But nearly half of those books sold online are bought because the people buying them first saw them in a physical bookshop.

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Can you post a link for where the bolded numbers come from? Thanks.

Fins, I read a study very recently--this side of Christmas, I'm sure--which showed this. I'm pretty sure it was discussed in The Bookseller at the time. I'll look for a link for you, but if it was in The Bookseller then the article might well be subscriber-only.

ETA: It's worth talking to book sellers (those who work in shops) about this, by the way. Ask them how many people come into their shops now, scan books' barcodes into their iPhones, and walk out without buying a thing. It's staggering how many people seem to think that bookshops exist mainly as shop windows for Amazon.

Writers' Co-op? or not?

TrixieBelden said:

What is Writers AMuse Me? What do they do? I don't understand from the website if they are an e-publishing house or a writers group or what. It seems a bit unprofessional for a publisher. I read their submission guidelines which weren't much help. From what I can tell its just a bunch of friends from a writers group that e-publish their own books. Or am I wrong?

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I read through the thread and didn't see where this was answered. Is it a writers' co-op publishing their own books? It looks like it from their website. There's no 'about us' page and the submission guidelines are pretty thin.

Those of you published with WAMM, how did you find out about them? Google? Advertisements? Duotrope? Did you submit cold, or are you a member of their 'group of writers' who decided to start a publishing co-op, or were you solicited?

WAMM's website is pretty atrocious if you ask me. Sorrree...

Reading through some of the website's blogs made me squirm -- from all da looove.

Can you expand on what was so exceptional about their editing? What's their editing/publishing experience? Who are they? Is it typical for writers to know everything about the company they publish with? Could be, for all I know...

Oh, I think it was answered. They are not just an e-pub; they do print as well. Their authors are not all part of a writers' group together. I believe most of them are not.

I was referred to them by one of theirnewly-signed authors, who is also not in the writers' group. I was not solicited and I don't believe they've ever solicted any of their authors. Other authors, since then have found them through their released books/contracted authors or perhaps google and other searches.


What I considered to be exceptional editing was a very throrough process of editing. It was a thorough content edit as well as line editing. We scrutinized each chapter. Some of the passages in the book were discussed at length over the course of several days as we worked out if what i was trying to say is what was being conveyed. I rewrote large sections of text and each of those changes was individually accepted or we would rework it again. All three editors work on every book. We went through the entire book three times before we went to galleys.We worked very closely - almost daily - for months,sometimes it was a sentence that needed a change, sometimes it was a paragraph. Once I rewrote almost an entire chapter for a sentence structure/pronoun thing.

Fine that you think their website is atrocious. That isn't my concern, though I'm sure they would look at your comment and wonder what they can do to change their site because they are not opposed to learning from criticism. though "atrocious" is hardly specific.

I was pleased with my experience with them.

As for their submissions guidelines, I appreciated the hell out of them. They ask for a little information and a little of the book instead of a query letter. They would have to explain to you why they do it that way; I'm not the publisher, so I don't know.

Stew, does the agreement include author copies of the print edition?

auntybug said:

Self-pubbing was not an option for me nor were some of the so-called publishers that print what you give them no matter what shape it is in. I was glad to have found them.

Without WAMM - my MG books would still be on my computer.

E-mail them for any answers. Happy Publishing!

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So, you didn't want to self-publish, and you didn't want to go with someone like PA and the likes. You were glad to have found WAMM. How did you find them? After all, they're not very findable.

Anyway, congrats on getting your MG books published and out there.

But how can you be sure your MG manuscripts would still be on your computer if it were not for WAMM? Unless you'd stopped sending them out?

Al Stevens said:

Stew, does the agreement include author copies of the print edition?

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yes. 5 copies.

LillyPu said:

WAMM's website is pretty atrocious if you ask me. Sorrree...

Reading through some of the website's blogs made me squirm -- from all da looove.

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It would be far more helpful if you'd specify what your concerns are: saying that the website is "pretty atrocious" isn't at all helpful, nor is it informative.

I have a few reservations about WAMM, but Stew21 is a shrewd and clever woman. I doubt she'd sign up with a press which wasn't professional in its intentions and business practises, and her endorsement of this press goes a long way for me.

Of course you have reservations, OH. I wouldn't expect any less from you. (and I thank you as well for your nice words.)
I can't see into the future and don't know what the next years hold for them, but I know that they are doing all they can to move from tiny unknown to respected small publishing house.

I, shakeysix, Shakey Smith--Shannon M. Smith-- have two novels published with WAMM. Another will be out soon. I am on my lunch hour. I usually check on AW over my lunch and was startled to find this. I don't have a lot of time because my students will be coming back from lunch in about ten minutes. I will try to answer the questions I have been able to read. I went over this very fast and may have missed something.
Cover Art? My daughter does mine. She has a degree in graphic design. The bike on the cover is an old one of mine. The picture was taken just outside of my house in St. John, Kansas. The second cover is my grand daughter's Teddy Bear wearing my father in law's old Flying Medal from WW2. What did I pay her? I gave her my JC Penney card and told her to buy something nice within reason.

What about editing? Well, as you can see, Mary and Dave have me capitalizing. Yes, there are several edits on each novel. I am an English teacher and I must say I missed a lot on my own that they saw.

Money up front? No. But I didn't pay anything either. Except with the Penney's charge which turned out to be a sun dress and a bracelet. The sun dress was within reason. The bracelet seemed a bit pricey but it's my kid--WTH.

No time for more--I hear the Hooligans approaching. More like the Visigoths at the gates. Ask me some questions and I will answer when school is out. --s6