Teens Writing for Teens, the 5th

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Ivi942

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Oh wow, I haven't been here for a while o.o I'm writing a short story for another comic right now. I'm still not very good at them(I still try to stretch out the story instead of making it as short as possible), but I think I'm getting better. I finally get to use these characters I've had... for three years now? I just couldn't figure out anything original for them since they're vampires .__. I love them to death, but I didn't exactly choose for them to be that way.

Edit: Believe me, singing, dancing and game design have a ton of rules as well... Some are more important than others. For example - you can ruin your voice if you sing while you have a cold.
 
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lisalulu09

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I'm in the middle of a writing session, but I just need to say that this scene is kicking my butt. Isn't it supposed to be the other way round???
 

lvae

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I'm on a family roadtrip right now, apparently to see fireflies idk. yay for roaming Internet!
I remember you, Ivi! How is everyone else going?
 

amlptj

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It's writer nature to constantly want to make changes to try to make the book better. There are authors who won't read their published works again because they'll think about things that they want to change. It's not really about being satisfied. It's about making your book the absolute best it can be in every way and then taking the leap.

And I'm sorry, Am, but you're going to have to face your grammar problems eventually. Whether it's figuring it out on your own or letting someone help you with it, you can't have a book full of grammar problems. If an agent or editor was to read it like that, they would assume that you didn't bother to revise. They don't know about your disability and, frankly, they don't care. If they have to go through all your grammar and spelling and fix it, that's time they're taking away from their other clients and time they're taking away from fixing other problems with your book. It also means that every time they make changes to your book, they're going to have to go back through and fix your grammar all over again.

I can't even offer to beta-read for you because my strengths lie with copy-editing. If a draft is full of spelling and grammar mistakes, I can't enjoy it because I'm too busy concentrating on the surface issues rather than the story.

OH no i already know i cant queary it yet, i'm not stupid, any agent would laugh at it now for all the grammar mistakes. Which is why i'm back at square one.

See its a vicious spirling circle i've gotten myself into. I cant fix my grammar mistakes not all of them. I would have to get someone to do that for me. I have no friends willing to take on the task, not that i blame them, so i'm going to have to pay someone to do so. But like you said, if i have to change more stuff its just a waist because then someone would have to do it all over again, and i really dont have money... at all so i cant pay thousands of dollars twice.

This is why i need beta readers. So they can tell me likes dislikes and such then i could fix what i needed to fix and then send it to the proofreader.

Problem is people wont beta because i have poor grammar.

So then i go back try to fix it myself work for weeks, months, even years.... still am infact. And barely make a dent. (At least now everything is spelled corrected. Had to buy a program geared towards learning disabilities to get it all corrected, sadly the program doesnt help with grammar all that much.)

So then i'm stuck back at square one. Now I've been going up and down this spiral for 9 years now! Actually more like 6 almost 7 because it took me three years to write my first book. And that is why i'm depressed today because as i sat there thinking about how long i've been writing, i'm still back at square one.
 

Ivi942

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Ally, I can help you with proofreading! It shouldn't be all that different from helping my classmates with english homework, aside from the amount of it.
 

lvae

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It is hard, Ally. Honestly, I understand why people would be hesitate to beta you because it is difficult doing line by line edits for grammar. I've done it before, and after a while, I got so caught up with the technical stuff and had no idea what the person's story was about. It isn't fun for the beta, and it doesn't help the writer tbh. If grammar is a huge issue, you might be better off hiring an editing service who will provide a thorough job.
 

lisalulu09

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Dear writing gods,

Can I finish this scene and maybe hit 8K in the next session?

Sincerely,

An annoyed writer.
 

amlptj

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Ally, the way you responded to HR was rude. Possibly thinly veiled rudeness, but rude all the same. She was doing as so many of us have done multiple times: offer advice, opinions, and the fruits of our research and observations. It feels to me like it's all falling on deaf ears. You're insistent that they way you're doing it is the only way; that there's nothing else you can do about your disability; that it's okay for you to break these (widely accepted and acknowledged) rules of writing.

While I'm normally of the opinion that a person should do what works best for them, and that the only "rule" of writing is to do what works for the individual, there are still boundaries. If you want to be able to publish, you need to accept the fact that the style you use just. Doesn't. Work. A Mary Sue/Gary Stu doesn't have to have the perfect most important life. That's a misconception a lot of people have. In today's world, a character whose life sucks is just as likely--if not more so--to be labeled as such.

Oh, yeah, and while online tests to see just how Mary Sue-ish a character is may be a good place to start, they're really about as reliable as the tests in magazines for if you're compatible with your boyfriend/girlfriend. They may have some basis in accuracy, but don't trust that and that alone.

ETA An update on a playlist isn't an update on a story. ...Just sayin'. :tongue

Was on wrong page, had to go shopping. Sorry wasnt meant to be rude at all, I was just explaining how I write. Wasnt meant to bash or anything. I actually thought of it more as a question, Like your character might be Mary sue then? and explaining why i dont think it is, then just saying that i dont like showing vs. telling stuff. Wasnt anything against what HR said, she didnt even say anything about that.
 

Horserider

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OH no i already know i cant queary it yet, i'm not stupid, any agent would laugh at it now for all the grammar mistakes. Which is why i'm back at square one.

See its a vicious spirling circle i've gotten myself into. I cant fix my grammar mistakes not all of them. I would have to get someone to do that for me. I have no friends willing to take on the task, not that i blame them, so i'm going to have to pay someone to do so. But like you said, if i have to change more stuff its just a waist because then someone would have to do it all over again, and i really dont have money... at all so i cant pay thousands of dollars twice.

This is why i need beta readers. So they can tell me likes dislikes and such then i could fix what i needed to fix and then send it to the proofreader.

Problem is people wont beta because i have poor grammar.

So then i go back try to fix it myself work for weeks, months, even years.... still am infact. And barely make a dent. (At least now everything is spelled corrected. Had to buy a program geared towards learning disabilities to get it all corrected, sadly the program doesnt help with grammar all that much.)

So then i'm stuck back at square one. Now I've been going up and down this spiral for 9 years now! Actually more like 6 almost 7 because it took me three years to write my first book. And that is why i'm depressed today because as i sat there thinking about how long i've been writing, i'm still back at square one.

I seem to recall that when you look for betas, you ask for people that will read your story despite the grammar issues and help you with other stuff like the plot and conflict.

If spelling and grammar were the only problems, I would be willing to help you out. At least, I would be willing to go through a few chapters and show you the difference. But how do I know you'll listen to my advice when you insist on telling everything instead of showing and other things that -- typically -- make a book stronger?
 

amlptj

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It is hard, Ally. Honestly, I understand why people would be hesitate to beta you because it is difficult doing line by line edits for grammar. I've done it before, and after a while, I got so caught up with the technical stuff and had no idea what the person's story was about. It isn't fun for the beta, and it doesn't help the writer tbh. If grammar is a huge issue, you might be better off hiring an editing service who will provide a thorough job.

That's what i'm looking into at the moment, actually trying to get more jobs (with out my mom knowing) so that i can pay for it eventually. Although i was shocked the prices are close to $3000 for my word count.

I understand too why people are hesitant. Well sort of. I dont see commas or anything when i read. Probably couldnt pick up another persons mistake for my life! Just kind of wish there were people out there who didnt like/ care about grammar. From what i've found there are 10 times more line by line kind of people then just overall story people.
 

lisalulu09

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Hi, Para!

ETA: I just realised that Isaac is into bands like Three Days Grace and Yellowcard (especially the former). Any suggestions for bands like that?

*now has to find the perfect writing music for Stephan. Hopes it is not Glee for some reason*
 
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amlptj

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I seem to recall that when you look for betas, you ask for people that will read your story despite the grammar issues and help you with other stuff like the plot and conflict.

If spelling and grammar were the only problems, I would be willing to help you out. At least, I would be willing to go through a few chapters and show you the difference. But how do I know you'll listen to my advice when you insist on telling everything instead of showing and other things that -- typically -- make a book stronger?

I dont Tell like crazy. I just apparently tell the characters descriptions, slight background (like age, their bullied/outcast) and all that is done within the first 2 and a half chapters. People who read that usually quite after one or two chapters. Thing is all the non-writer people i showed my first few chapters too liked it.

Then chapter 8... well I've had mixed reviews on that... 1 person said it was info-dumpy because Tod was explaining all about what was going on. (up to that point they are clueless) And another person said it answered all there questions... and technically everyone is talking and asking questions. The stuff they are talking about I cant really show. It can only be told to them. Because of the ending they need to be told what happening because its all part of the experiment.
 

Horserider

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Hi, Para!

ETA: I just realised that Isaac is into bands like Three Days Grace and Yellowcard (especially the former). Any suggestions for bands like that?

*now has to find the perfect writing music for Stephan. Hopes it is not Glee for some reason*

*goes through Pandora station* Three Doors Down, Daughtry, Nickelback, Breaking Benjamin, Lifehouse, Matchbox Twenty, Skillet, Seether, Puddle of Mudd, Evanescence...
 

Bookgirl2021

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Ally, I will say this once, and then I'm done. And remember that I'm saying this as a friend and fellow writer, not to be mean. You always seem to get on the defensive when people comment on your grammar, and tell people that if they beta you don't want them to look at the grammar, just the story. A lot of people struggle to get past bad grammar unless they're trying to help correct it. ...Basically what I'm saying is that you really need to just deal with it. If you can't fix your grammar and spelling problems on your own, find someone who can help you. Preferably someone who can teach you to fish, not just give you one.
 

lisalulu09

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I think I'm going to check them out on last.fm. Thanks for the suggestions, though, HR. Lifehouse <3
 
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lvae

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Good luck with things, Ally. :)
So what are your New Years Resolutions, guys? Can't believe NYE is tomorrow!
My writerly one is to finish at least one WIP in 2012. I didn't actually start anything new this year, and I didn't finish anything either. :s
 

lisalulu09

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Two things:

1. It would be easier if my characters told me the music they love as I was doing the bares bones of playlists. They never do. >< Lol.

2. This scene is kicking my butt so much, I'm looking at random things on Wikipedia and I may well go to bed when it's finished.

Mine is the same, Ivae!
 
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amlptj

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I'm defensive only because i cant fix it myself. People seem to just think its me being lazy and not trying which isnt the case. After 9 years of trying and then getting tested and finding out I cant I am only simply looking for a way around my issues. Tried fixing it myself, tired looking for betas who dont care about grammar. Found one and then my mom but that was it. This all started out explaining why i was frustrated today when i realized i had no real results after writing so long. Not asking anyone here to fix my grammar or beta. Although thank you for the offer Ivi! Just explaining my issues because that's where the conversation led.
 
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Horserider

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I dont Tell like crazy. I just apparently tell the characters descriptions, slight background (like age, their bullied/outcast) and all that is done within the first 2 and a half chapters. People who read that usually quite after one or two chapters. Thing is all the non-writer people i showed my first few chapters too liked it.

Then chapter 8... well I've had mixed reviews on that... 1 person said it was info-dumpy because Tod was explaining all about what was going on. (up to that point they are clueless) And another person said it answered all there questions... and technically everyone is talking and asking questions. The stuff they are talking about I cant really show. It can only be told to them. Because of the ending they need to be told what happening because its all part of the experiment.

I think you're missing the point. I don't know if you have too much telling in your book; I haven't read your book. That was an example of advice we've given you that you've disregarded. It was an example of why I don't know if I could beta read your book because I don't know if you'd consider my advice.
 
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amlptj

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Good luck with things, Ally. :)
So what are your New Years Resolutions, guys? Can't believe NYE is tomorrow!
My writerly one is to finish at least one WIP in 2012. I didn't actually start anything new this year, and I didn't finish anything either. :s

Thanks after my mom finishes the book and i get some comments from my crit group, I'll correct what suggestions they make and hopefully i'll save up enough to send it to a proofreader!

My new years goals are:
1) finish TAJ
2) Finish The House
3) Finish edits on F.R.E.A.K.s and save up a shit ton of money for proofreading bills/ look for cheaper ones!
 

lisalulu09

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Hi, Missus.

I think in future, I shall do the soundtracks based on what I'm listening to when a character starts talking to me. Haha.

Just out of curiousity, what sort of things would you beta, HR?
 
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