Super Sad True Agent Story

dgaughran · Apr 9, 2011

BarbaraKE said:
Last August/September, I sent out eight queries and got back three requests for partials which were all sent out in September. It took almost six months but I eventually heard back from all three agents. All passed but were kind enough to give feedback.

But what bothered me is that all the feedback was different!! What one agent said was a drawback, another loved!

This happens a lot, whether it's a friend, a beta or an agent, you will often end up with conflicting feedback. If everyone is saying something different, you can ignore it all. However, if they all say, for example, that have a problem with passive verbs or your ending, then you should really consider it.

And don't forget, sometimes they just reject it because its not working for them, and because its a partial they need to think of something as the "reason".

I queried this novel for 18 months, on and off, and I don't regret it because the novel has gone through several revisions, and is infinitely better. I would have regretted it if I had self-published the first draft.

If you decided to query further, I would strongly recommend sending out more queries than this. It takes some writers 200 queries before they snag an agent. At this rate, you will be ten thousand years old. Three partial requests from eight queries (especially if its your first eight) is a great request rate.

Good to see you are keeping faith in your writing despite these frustrating setbacks.

BarbaraKE · Apr 9, 2011

dgaughran said:
This happens a lot, whether it's a friend, a beta or an agent, you will often end up with conflicting feedback. If everyone is saying something different, you can ignore it all. However, if they all say, for example, that have a problem with passive verbs or your ending, then you should really consider it.

I agree that it's not uncommon to end up with conflicting feedback but to have three well-regarded agents give directly contradictory feedback is frustrating.

(I'm not talking grammer and poor sentence structure, I don't have a problem with that. I'm speaking of characterization, plot, pacing, etc.)

But what really bothered me is that I've spent lots of time writing (and rewriting and rewriting) in order to try and attract an agent when they can't agree what is 'right' or 'wrong'!!!

What's really sad is that in my attempts to attract an agent, I've gotten away from my original story. My latest version is dramatically different from the first version but I don't think it's better. (Actually, I don't like it as well.)

Julie Worth · Apr 9, 2011

BarbaraKE said:
I agree that it's not uncommon to end up with conflicting feedback but to have three well-regarded agents give directly contradictory feedback is frustrating.

(I'm not talking grammer and poor sentence structure, I don't have a problem with that. I'm speaking of characterization, plot, pacing, etc.)

But what really bothered me is that I've spent lots of time writing (and rewriting and rewriting) in order to try and attract an agent when they can't agree what is 'right' or 'wrong'!!!

What's really sad is that in my attempts to attract an agent, I've gotten away from my original story. My latest version is dramatically different from the first version but I don't think it's better. (Actually, I don't like it as well.)

If you look at the reviews of any bestseller on Amazon, you see a wide range of contradictory assessments. Agents aren't any different, except they give out a lot of 1's. On my present book I've received a few comments that are so stupid and misguided that I can't imagine they came from somebody in the business. And a number of others who said they liked the book but didn't think they could sell it. Which is an obvious lie. Very likely they could sell it all right, but they probably thought they couldn't sell it for enough.

dgaughran · Apr 10, 2011

Julie Worth said:
Very likely they could sell it all right, but they probably thought they couldn't sell it for enough.

And this is the problem isn't it? We take rejection (when we get enough of it) to mean that our writing is not of publishable quality, that we aren't good enough or our manuscript isn't good enough. When in fact, the agent could well be looking at something and thinking that they could only sell it for a sub-$5,000 advance, so it's probably not worth their time. Unfortunately, the writer never knows this.

Prawn · Apr 10, 2011

I read your first chapter, and I really enjoyed it. I sent out 220 queries before landing an agent. I think you should keep sending them out!

turningpoint · Apr 10, 2011

dgaughran,
I'm curious about how publishing your shorts works out. It must be nice to get the lift of just having something out there for the public. Maybe it will help generate interest from agents.

popmuze · Apr 10, 2011

Julie Worth said:
If you look at the reviews of any bestseller on Amazon, you see a wide range of contradictory assessments. Agents aren't any different, except they give out a lot of 1's. On my present book I've received a few comments that are so stupid and misguided that I can't imagine they came from somebody in the business. .

I've had several which have led me to believe they didn't even read the manuscript. One agent thought the ten pages I sent her contained three chapters not one. Another had some complaints that were totally and clearly addressed in the first chapter. A couple of others sent back rejections so fast I know they couldn't have read more than a page. And the rest have been sitting on the manuscript for four or five months. The previous agent I signed with sat on the manuscript for four or five months, too, before giving me any comments. And those comments were the total opposite of the letter I was sent that convinced me to sign.
No wonder self-publishing appeals to people.

dgaughran · Apr 11, 2011

My personal favourite was when I shelled out $20 to send five chapters to New York, only to get a rejection two months later. For someone else's book. When I emailed to point out the error, I was told "they didn't provide feedback on rejections". That was nearly a 'laptop across the room' moment.

popmuze · Apr 11, 2011

A little off the topic but, how is it living in Sweden anyway?

dgaughran · Apr 11, 2011

Terrible weather, expensive beer, and difficult to make friends or find a job.

In short, great for writing.

Anne Lyle · Apr 11, 2011

dgaughran said:
My personal favourite was when I shelled out $20 to send five chapters to New York, only to get a rejection two months later. For someone else's book. When I emailed to point out the error, I was told "they didn't provide feedback on rejections". That was nearly a 'laptop across the room' moment.

If that's a good example of their communication, maybe you wouldn't want them as agents anyway?

Fortunately the only person who gave me detailed feedback picked up the manuscript, so I didn't have to deal with conflicting advice. But I wouldn't follow any advice that took my book away from what I want it to be.

One thing we learnt on the writing course I did last year was to define our "hill to die on" - what are you willing to change, and what are you not? I've made substantial changes to some aspects of my book, but there are others I would rather tear up the contract over...

Julie Worth · Apr 11, 2011

dgaughran said:
My personal favourite was when I shelled out $20 to send five chapters to New York, only to get a rejection two months later. For someone else's book.

Perhaps the other author received a positive response on your book.

dgaughran · Apr 11, 2011

Super, Super Sad Fake Agent Story

Julie Worth said:
Perhaps the other author received a positive response on your book.

Wouldn't that be something?

Picture it: a writer slaving away for years, only ever receiving rejection, finally has their genius recognised and receives an offer of representation from a top New York agent. Only, during their call, he realises they are talking about someone else's book.

Oh, the horror!

popmuze · Apr 11, 2011

dgaughran said:
Wouldn't that be something?

Picture it: a writer slaving away for years, only ever receiving rejection, finally has their genius recognised and receives an offer of representation from a top New York agent. Only, during their call, he realises they are talking about someone else's book.

Oh, the horror!

On the contrary, I think it's a great idea for a novel!

dgaughran · Apr 11, 2011

Yes yes, a horror novel.

As the crazed author who sees his manuscript stolen due to a clerical error decides to track his "replacement" down, and make him suffer.

popmuze · Apr 11, 2011

Actually, now that I think about it, I remember a book called About the Author by John Colapinto that may have had a similar premise.

writegirl · Apr 11, 2011

I'm finding it very interesting, reading what everyone is struggling through in the query process. I'm just getting started on wrangling with this beast for my first novel. (I've been in journalism prior to trying this self-torture.) I'm looking for advice on how to go about doing this. I spent 3 weeks going through various agent lists (Query Tracker and Writers' Market) and categorizing them into (a), (b), (c), groups with (a) being dream agents and (c) being agents I think might be interested but am unsure. I have a total of 94 agents on the list. I sent out 7 queries four weeks ago from the (a) list and received 2 rejections. This week I sent out 7 more from (a) and (b) lists. Should I be sending out more at a time and with greater frequency? I certainly don't want to burn bridges with potential agents until I start getting an idea on whether it needs more work. But I'm getting very little feedback so far other than agents saying they didn't feel like the book was right for them. I even had one who said she thought it had merit and maybe another agent would be interested. But that is it so far.

I also noticed that a few have mentioned beta readers. How do you go about finding a trustworthy beta reader, one you know will give good advice and not try to steal your ideas?

Thanks for any help any of you could give. I feel a bit like a fish out of water trying to drink from a fire hose.

Thanks

Julie Worth · Apr 11, 2011

writegirl said:
I'm finding it very interesting, reading what everyone is struggling through in the query process. I'm just getting started on wrangling with this beast for my first novel. (I've been in journalism prior to trying this self-torture.) I'm looking for advice on how to go about doing this. I spent 3 weeks going through various agent lists (Query Tracker and Writers' Market) and categorizing them into (a), (b), (c), groups with (a) being dream agents and (c) being agents I think might be interested but am unsure. I have a total of 94 agents on the list. I sent out 7 queries four weeks ago from the (a) list and received 2 rejections. This week I sent out 7 more from (a) and (b) lists. Should I be sending out more at a time and with greater frequency? I certainly don't want to burn bridges with potential agents until I start getting an idea on whether it needs more work. But I'm getting very little feedback so far other than agents saying they didn't feel like the book was right for them. I even had one who said she thought it had merit and maybe another agent would be interested. But that is it so far.

I also noticed that a few have mentioned beta readers. How do you go about finding a trustworthy beta reader, one you know will give good advice and not try to steal your ideas?

Thanks for any help any of you could give. I feel a bit like a fish out of water trying to drink from a fire hose.

Thanks

You can post your query in the SYW area and get feedback and I would do that if I hadn't queried before. From what I see from my own queries and from others who have been successful, if you're not getting 15% requests for the full, your chances of getting an offer are less than half.

As for categorizing agents, that might be useful if you're writing in several genres, but otherwise, they will be picking you, not the other way around. I would look at their query response times (at querytracker) and initially send to those who are quick. Then you can compare your responses with the typical responses and see how you're doing. Generally, a query will need some adjustments.

Julie Worth · Apr 11, 2011

popmuze said:
Actually, now that I think about it, I remember a book called About the Author by John Colapinto that may have had a similar premise.

An excellent read. The author's roommate steals the author's life and then the author seals the book.

writegirl · Apr 11, 2011

Julie Worth said:
You can post your query in the SYW area and get feedback and I would do that if I hadn't queried before. From what I see from my own queries and from others who have been successful, if you're not getting 15% requests for the full, your chances of getting an offer are less than half.

As for categorizing agents, that might be useful if you're writing in several genres, but otherwise, they will be picking you, not the other way around. I would look at their query response times (at querytracker) and initially send to those who are quick. Then you can compare your responses with the typical responses and see how you're doing. Generally, a query will need some adjustments.

Thanks for the information. I'll give SYW a try with the query. I had an editor friend read it and give pointers on changes to make. I did those before I started submitting it.

What do you think about frequency and number of queries or waiting a few weeks between batches? I read about how people sent out 100 queries and think, surely they didn't do them all at once, but over the course of time.

Sandsurfgirl · Apr 11, 2011

writegirl said:
Thanks for the information. I'll give SYW a try with the query. I had an editor friend read it and give pointers on changes to make. I did those before I started submitting it.

What do you think about frequency and number of queries or waiting a few weeks between batches? I read about how people sent out 100 queries and think, surely they didn't do them all at once, but over the course of time.

I've done like 30 or more at a time. Not very many give feedback, so at the rate of 7 here and 7 there, with the amount of time it takes agents to answer it could take you forever. Often they don't even bother to respond to queries if they aren't interested so you could be waiting to hear back from 4 or 5 agents who never even intended to contact you.

writegirl · Apr 11, 2011

Sandsurfgirl said:
I've done like 30 or more at a time. Not very many give feedback, so at the rate of 7 here and 7 there, with the amount of time it takes agents to answer it could take you forever. Often they don't even bother to respond to queries if they aren't interested so you could be waiting to hear back from 4 or 5 agents who never even intended to contact you.

Thanks, Sandsurfgirl.

Sandsurfgirl · Apr 11, 2011

I had one agent give me what I thought was a silly critique comment, so silly in fact it even made my husband laugh out loud when he read it. Then I went back and read her blog out of curiosity. It was embarrassing and parts made me cringe... sophomoric and just.... bad. It reminded me of when I taught middle school English and you'd have this really smart kid who tried to sound lofty. Cute in a 7th grader. Not so cute in a professional. She is a newer agent but she works for an agency that's small but sells books. I thanked my lucky stars she rejected me and I disregarded her critique. If I had read her blog before I never would have queried her. Funny enough the blog link is not on the agency's site. It was in her signature line on her email. The moral of the story is.... consider the source carefully before you make drastic changes to your manuscript.

I wouldn't make changes to my manuscript based on advice I got on partials or fulls if it changed the nature of my story drastically. Yes they are agents, but this is a subjective business and afterall... it's really their opinion like anybody's opinion. Take what works for you and discard the rest. If you feel that your manuscript has suffered from your changes then go back to an earlier version.

Becca C. · Apr 11, 2011

When I was querying last year, I got a two form rejects on fulls and two personalized responses. One of them, the advice/feedback was completely subjective. Nothing that agent suggested really clicked for me. I appreciated her efforts in giving me advice, as she totally didn't have to, but it just wasn't advice I was going to use. The other agent talked to me on the phone for half an hour about the manuscript and then emailed me all her notes and her intern's reader report. I fell in love with the tips this agent gave me. Even as we were talking, I was having huge bursts of inspiration and already planning what I was going to do in a revision.

The first agent's advice was weird and didn't ring true to me, but the second agents's advice made the manuscript 100% better than it was. It really does come down to whether or not the agent "gets" your book.

Anne Lyle · Apr 11, 2011

writegirl said:
I also noticed that a few have mentioned beta readers. How do you go about finding a trustworthy beta reader, one you know will give good advice and not try to steal your ideas?

My beta-readers are long-time friends - most are members of my offline writing group, one is an online friend from a forum I've belonged to for many years. I would recommend critiquing someone else's work before you ask them to return the favour. Not only is it polite to do so (shows you're not just another freeloader) but it gives you a chance to assess their level of writing so you know what level of critique to expect. Feedback from non-writers about what they liked and didn't like is valuable, but for help with craft problems you need writing buddies who are at least as competent as you are.

As for people stealing your ideas - good writers have too many ideas of their own to care about stealing yours, and bad writers...? Who cares, since they're unlikely to turn it into anything publishable?

Super Sad True Agent Story

dgaughran

BarbaraKE

Julie Worth

What? I have a title?

dgaughran

Prawn

Writing is finite,revising infinite

turningpoint

popmuze

Last of a Dying Breed

dgaughran

popmuze

Last of a Dying Breed

dgaughran

Anne Lyle

Fantastic historian

Julie Worth

What? I have a title?

dgaughran

popmuze

Last of a Dying Breed

dgaughran

popmuze

Last of a Dying Breed

writegirl

Julie Worth

What? I have a title?

Julie Worth

What? I have a title?

writegirl

Sandsurfgirl

writegirl

Sandsurfgirl

Becca C.

Anne Lyle

Fantastic historian