Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

What priceless information. It has taken me a couple of months to go through everything here, but I've come through on the other side at last, have applied much of what I learned, and now have a very workable and exciting (to me anyway) outline for my historical fantasy. Not only that, I regained a lot of lost confidence, simply by reading everyone's responses, thoughts, feelings expressed, etc. I am not alone (even if no one here knows me). I was published in mystery, but with a complete change in direction to historical fantasy and a long break from writing due to certain situations, I'm pretty much a newbie again.

I am very happy to have found a place where I can lurk, learn, and maybe even get involved with others.

Yay!

thethinker42 said:

WOOHOO!!! My first and last name are each 4 letters...I am SO going to be a Big Name Author.


Guess that explains how Ann Rice got anywhere...

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No hope for me then - my last name is 14 letters long...

chronomodra said:

Anyway, he got a rejection back from an agent saying that he couldn't "connect" with the main character in the first five pages. I tried to give him what advice I could, of course. But what are your suggestions for making a sympathetic character that readers can quickly attach to and feel concerned for?

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The character doesn't need to be sympathetic, or even likable. What he/she has to be is interesting. The reader must care what happens next.

A person in a place with a problem. That's the basic opening. In its expanded form, its an interesting person in an interesting place with an interesting problem.

Howdy, again. Got another question (natch').

There's a new market opening up asking for stories placed in "secondary worlds". They don't necessarily want science fiction or fantasy, but their guidelines do state they're not interested in advanced science or spaceflight, and those guidelines would seem to indicate they're much more interested in fantasy style worlds. I've got a couple ideas, one dealing with modern day humans inadvertently opening up a dimensional doorway to another Earth and one dealing with an alternate evolutionary history for Earth (no rise of humans or possibly only minimal evolutionary advancement past Australopithecus).

My question is how would you go about approaching a secondary world wherein the characters and world did not nudge up against Tolkien or D&D or any of a hundred other fantasy worlds (mythic folklore might be one place, but there are problems there too)?

I've read West of Eden and some of Jordan's Wheel of Time, but I'm extremely interested in hearing how our resident Master goes about it and how some other writers have approached this question.

Rather than writing for markets, write the book that you want to write, then find a market that's suitable for it.

James D. Macdonald said:

Rather than writing for markets, write the book that you want to write, then find a market that's suitable for it.

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Aye, but that's the trick, isn't it? The market suitable for my work is located in the Andromeda Galaxy, and doesn't accept e-mails, which would take about a million years to get there, anyway.

caw

blacbird said:

Aye, but that's the trick, isn't it? The market suitable for my work is located in the Andromeda Galaxy, and doesn't accept e-mails, which would take about a million years to get there, anyway.

caw

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Make sure to include a SASE.

Chris Grey said:

Make sure to include a SASE.

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The cost of the postage would be horrible.

FotsGreg - could you give us a link to those guidelines? I have some ideas bubbling up that may fit.

Beneath ceaseless Skies link,

http://www.beneath-ceaseless-skies.com/page.php?p=submissions

They're a new startup (not even a single issue published yet) so use caution. Be sure to check what rights they're asking for as well (first world serial, first world electronic, option to buy non-exclusive anthology rights, exclusive period to buy time limited exclusive audio rights for 90 days in this case).

Okay, how I'd go about creating a secondary world:

I'd take one thing in our world and change it. Say ... suppose Lord Franklin actually found the Northwest Passage in 1847.

What would that imply about the world's climate systems? Okay, make those changes to the world.

Now, how would those climate changes affect the British Empire? Got it.

Now, fast forward a bit. The British Empire (as modified), is entering WWII. What changes does the existence of a usable Northwest Passage imply?

Now find some character who is living in this world. Give him/her a problem.

Write that story.

See how easy it is?

Dead Start

Hi Uncle Jim,

I have posted my story on SYW and I have gotten comments that nothing is happening, therefore, why should I keep reading. I don't know how else to ask this, but, isn't it normal to start off with a calm start to a story instead of a heart pounding action packed story? This is only the first page of the story. If you could take a look at this and maybe give me a couple hints to help define "this is a boring start" I would appreciate it.
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Clarine went inside the house left to her by her uncle, finally. Looking down at the little boy leaning against the door with her “It was a busy day today Tobin.”


“Yes it was mom. All of those wounds I wrapped, the potions and teas I helped to mix. It was a day.”


“What do you think of becoming a healer?”


“Well . . . I don’t know yet. But, days like today are very fun and exciting.”


“It’s not always like this Tobin.”


“What do you mean mom?”


“When all of the activity dies down, we get to do interesting and exciting chores like recording the day’s events and taking inventory.”


“Oh.” Suddenly the smile fell and Tobin was overtaken by the yawns.


“Get ready to bed down for the night Tobin. It will be another day tomorrow.”


“Alright mom, have a good night.”


“I will Tobin, good night.” Clarine let Tobin go to get ready after a quick kiss on his cheek, lovingly rubbed off when mom was not looking.


“I need to take inventory of what I have first, and then record the events in the morning.” Clarine started pulling out the jars one by one until she heard a thud. “What was that? Everybody in the village should be sleeping.” She stood there for a moment longer listening, but the noise did not return. “Well, I have to get back to what I was doing.”

To be brutally honest:

It's true, nothing happens. We're told, but not shown, what healers do. Then we're told that most of what healers do is boring. This doesn't set up high expectations.

So: either start with showing us the wounds being wrapped, or start with the thud.

Hey, Uncle Jim,

Got a question. In the use of the ever-present cliche, when do you think they can be allowable, or appropriate. I mean, so much of (Americans') daily speach consist of a cliche or two (thousand), so there has to be a use for them in creative writing.
Case-in-point: I posted a story that is not exactly getting rave reviews in the "Mystery/Thriller..." forum, and please no hate mail- I know that I get defensive. But one point stuck out to me. I used the 'well worn cliche'; "like his pants were on fire".
After the critique, I thought about it, then forgot about it. Then thought some more. And it hit me while I was in the shower. I DID put the cliche in there on purpose. It is only a fifteen-hundred word story, and I thought it added to the story.
Here is my point; This is a forum and collection of writers. When we read someone else's work, we see it differently than the 'average reader'. And if said reader can identify with a cliche, well-placed to help the story/book/anecdote on the bathroom stall-door along, um, shouldn't that be acceptable?

smsarber said:

But one point stuck out to me. I used the 'well worn cliche'; "like his pants were on fire".

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Here's the question: Did you use it in dialog (where it would reveal character about the speaker), or did you use it in narrative (showing that you as the author would rather grab the most common phrase than hand-craft a new one for the reader's delight)? We read (among other reasons) to learn new ways of seeing the world. Make the story yours.

Jim,

So, what you're saying is essentially, create a character, dump him into the middle of problem he has to fix, then wrap the world around him and forget writing specifically to a particular market. If it works, it works. If it doesn't, try another market.

James D. Macdonald said:

Here's the question: Did you use it in dialog (where it would reveal character about the speaker), or did you use it in narrative (showing that you as the author would rather grab the most common phrase than hand-craft a new one for the reader's delight)? We read (among other reasons) to learn new ways of seeing the world. Make the story yours.

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Not in the dialogue. Crud, I'm such an idiot! Just kidding, but I see the point. Thanks!

smsarber said:

... I used the 'well worn cliche'; "like his pants were on fire".

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Can you arrange for his pants actually to be on fire?

It makes an interesting twist to a cliche`:

Marvin looked as if he'd seen a ghost. That made the ghost laugh.

I'm one of those writers, who can't write the next sentence until I have the last one right. It's the set-up for the next, after all! And I can't say anything without checking for consistency with what I've said before. Character takes a shotgun down from the wall, I gotta go back and check the shotgun is on the wall.

Now comes NaNoWriMo. Rules are, you can do anything--outline, character define, world-build, but not one word of Ms. So, I'm (seriously) outlining for the first time in my life. NaNoWriMo is 50,000 words. You outline, so, can you guesstimate the wordage of the finished ms, by the number of lines in the outline?

You outline, so, can you guesstimate the wordage of the finished ms, by the number of lines in the outline?

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When I outline ... well. For a 50,000 word piece, my outline would probably be around 37,500 words. 150 pages.

Wow! That much in an outline, huh? I mean, I have notes (a lot handwritten in a couple of different notebooks), diagrams, small character profiles or character notes where I think of something that probably ought to go in a book or story, etc., etc., but I doubt I come close to 40:60 split between outline:story...

FOTSGreg said:

I doubt I come close to 40:60 split between outline:story...

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What works for you is best.

Uncle Jim, out of curiosity, do you then put the outline aside and start fresh for the manuscript? Or do you take the outline document and flesh it out to become the manuscript?

What I do with the outline is hand it to Doyle, and she writes a first draft based on it. Then we both edit and re-edit and re-write based on that draft.

Not having an outline in hand does, however, make it harder to come up with an outline when an editor asks for one in your query process (I've noticed a lot more publishing houses and editors are asking for a synopsis, an outline, and the first 50 pages or first 5 chapters these days - coming up with a synopsis is easy since I always have the book ready before querying, but that outline thing generally stops me cold).