Build Your Own PC

Forbidden Snowflake

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Re: SSDs.

If you haven't experienced an SSD yet, it is the best computing gift you can give yourself. Once you do, you will never want to use a computer with an HDD again, and doing so when you have no choice becomes an exercise in frustration.

SSDs have become remarkably more mature in the last several years, and anyone still worried about their reliability or longevity is working from outdated knowledge.

Absolutely get an SSD if you can afford it.

And if you can't, get a small SSD and keep your files on a separate HDD. :tongue

I recommend Samsung or Intel.

Thank you. I was planning on getting a 250GB SSD to install Windows and programs on and get a TB HDD for films etc. Or do you think I should shell out the money for a bigger SSD?
 

Forbidden Snowflake

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Nice lot of responses there, Snowflake. Have a good browse through pcpartpicker as suggested above. Don't be in any rush.

I used them several months ago - the Forum folk are very helpful and although I bought all the stuff in January it was April when I finally decided to bite the bullet and start building it. It took a few days to build my own desktop computer and I'm currently playing Shadow of Mordur on a 23" colour monitor at 1920 x 1080 resolution with absolutely no problems at all. You should end up well within £1,500 and have cash left over for a decent monitor to boot.

Main things I learnt were that it isn't nearly as complicated as you would think.

Don't be sucked into the overclocking crowd who go on and on about heat. They have to combat heat simply because they are overclocking. That's the route to trouble.

A cooler/fancy heat sink is not needed if you're not overclocking no matter what graphics card you get. Folk who are into overclocking can go overboard with stuff and it's not necessary. The fan that comes with the processor, and the ones built into the case,- I used Corsair - are perfectly okay. I have a dual Raedon Sapphire R9280X graphics card and an Intel i5 processor. One screwdriver was all I needed and I used the one in my car tool kit. My motherboard is a MSI H87-G43 but whether that suits you or not now is not up to me to say.

One thing I found especially helpful- although you may not need it if you have a helpful tech-savvy friend - was a fellow on the net who had a long video on building a gaming computer and by sheer luck he used exactly the same case I did and I was able to follow precisely what he did with all the assembly and connections. I found another site that guided me all the way through the Windows loading -seven forums- I wanted to stick with Windows 7.

It was great fun building. I followed the visual build instructions via the net connection on my old machine as I built the new one. A cheap splitter enabled me to use the same net connection on both machines once I reached the loading up stage.

I've played computerr games for 20 years but my only prior computer technical experience was changing a memory card or replacing plugins like keyboard or mouse or Skype camera!!!

Take your time and have fun.

Thank you very much for your input :) Very helpful!
 

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ESD Safety. ESD is Electrostatic Discharge, and a static electricity shock that's not powerful enough for you to even notice is enough to damage or even destroy sensitive electronics. Always handle boards one at a time, being careful not to touch any chips or circuit pathways. Leave devices in their ESD-protective bags until you are ready to put them in. Purchase static-dissipating mats to work on, use static protection (such as wristbands) properly, and avoid static-heavy materials.

Hello, Safety Sam! JK.

You don't have to go all out if you take a couple precautions: Don't assemble on carpet--either your feet, or the computer. Discharge anything by touching a bathtub before building. Don't place components on their anti-static bags--what's where the static is! Make sure to touch the case and PSU (off, but plugged into the wall) often.

I like assembling on my dining room table. I've got hard wood floors, and the table is wood. If you have carpet, try your kitchen or bathroom--make sure it's bone dry and clean.

Keep in mind that a lot of what we consider to be basic features of a computer (WiFi, Bluetooth) are essentially add-ons when you're building your own system — you'll probably have to purchase and install those components separately.

Motherboards are coming with a lot of amazing features nowadays. Many come with bluetooth, and wifi adapters built in--you just have to make sure they're under the product features.


I came here to deliver some vids:

I'm not the biggest fan of Tek Syndicate anymore, but they have one of the more thorough build video I know of. Note: Don't buy these components; they're 2 years old!
http://youtu.be/W4Js2A1qdB8

Linus doesn't do general build guides as much as he does certain build guides, and this one is a massively overkill and outdated build--for being 4 months old. This would be for the insane either way. He'll show a good set of instructions for this exact build, but a lot of it can be traded over elsewhere.
http://youtu.be/Cq-zqQiY-OA


I'd like to lead you to one thing, but I can't find a video for it. Pretty much, I suggest you never fully assemble the computer before you turn it on. For example, you can assemble it for hours, route cables for hours, and make it all nice and pretty, but when you go to turn it on--even though you followed all the instructions to the letter--it won't work. Sometimes things arrive dead. Sometimes things need to be plugged in more, or RAM has to be reseated, or whatever. If you assemble it completely, you'll have a ton of troubleshooting to do to find that one problem. So, I always suggest you bench test first to remove any problems from the get-go.

This starts out as:
- Lay motherboard on it's box--not it's bag.
- Insert CPU, apply heatsink (if you're getting aftermarket, like you should, use the stock one because it's easy to put on and free).
- Put one RAM stick in--one!
- Attach PSU power cables.
- Attach the on/off switch from the case--but don't put components in case.
- Plug cable from monitor into motherboard.
- Turn on.

If the system boots to the BIOS, you're good. Turn off, add components one at a time until everything in installed.
If the system doesn't boot, redo everything and make sure everything is in correctly. If you can't find the problems, you can ask us or other sites to help you. If it boots fine the first time, but the last component doesn't allow it to boot again, the problem is with that one. Refit until you have to decide it was DOA.


About SSD size: You've got it right that it's your boot drive and you should have a separate HHD as your storage. 250gb is a lot for an SSD. Just keep your important files, your programs, and a few things on it. I'm running 128gb SSDs in all my machines, and have no problems with space. 128gb used to be the standard until they lowered the prices last year, now 250gb are found cheap, so I'd go with one of those.
 

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Power supply: TOPower or Enermax. If it doesn't weigh at least 3 pounds, it's junk. (It needs a heavy heatsink and big capacitors.) In today's machines, 500W is minimal, 800W might be more like it.

Actually, I would say: size it to your video card (or the video card(s) you hope to put in there someday). Given the advances they've made on power conservation in CPUs over the past few years, the vid card is going to be the major power slurper in your system. So ~300W + video card's rated power draw + a margin for safety.

CPU: I've become an utter Intel bigot. I've seen too many problems and conflicts with AMD CPUs. And every dead CPU I've ever seen has been an AMD. If I don't use the stock Intel heatsink/fan, I'll get a basic Thermaltake with a copper core.

I've had no problems with AMD CPUs, but I'd still recommend buying Intel, especially in a machine that's going to be used for gaming. Currently, the Intel chips have better single-core performance and performance-per-watt than anything AMD's putting out, even if the chips appear to have the same specs on paper. (AMD benchmarks better on highly parallel tasks, but those are relatively uncommon.)
 

kuwisdelu

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Thank you. I was planning on getting a 250GB SSD to install Windows and programs on and get a TB HDD for films etc. Or do you think I should shell out the money for a bigger SSD?

For media like movies or photos, store them them on an HDD. It's easy to transfer them back and forth and there's no real benefit to keeping them on the SSD.

It's worth keeping programs on the SSD. I have a 500 GB SSD, and live comfortably around 4/5 full. I keep all my movies on external drives.
 

Forbidden Snowflake

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Processor:

I've read i3 is enough for gaming, i5 is excellent and nice and shiny and i7 is unnecessary... is that true or is it work getting an i7?
 

Reziac

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Actually it's the bone-dry carpet that will generate static. A simple way to negate that risk is to lightly mist the carpet before you start. When I lived in the desert (where "dry" means "spit and it doesn't hit the ground") I had to use a weak solution of Downy to get rid of carpet static; this treatment was good for about 6 months.

That said, most components are not as sensitive as we've all been told. The worst are the pinless CPUs -- fer ghu's sakes, don't touch the contacts! Conversely, you wouldn't believe the abuse RAM puts up with. -- I've been building the beasts for 20 years now and have never zapped a component, despite that I don't take any special precautions other than to work on a wooden surface (and I often have a naked motherboard lying on the table, hooked up and running... in fact one machine lived that way for quite some time before I got around to putting it into a case!) I carry a chunk of cardboard in my house-call kit for the same purpose. Plastic/Formica can be amazingly staticky. Incidentally, so can some cardboard, especially the shiny-surfaced stuff-- check it by doing the carpet shuffle and see if you zap yourself when you touch it. If you're paranoid, touch something conductive just before you handle any component.

As to PSU weight vs quality, sorry, this still holds. This article is old but look at the photo of heavy vs light innards (the one on the left is an Enermax; the one on the right is probably a Powerman) and the reason becomes obvious:

http://www.directron.com/psu.html
http://www.directron.com/table1.html

If you want stable power handling, capacitor size matters. It's no coincidence that cheap PSU with dinky little capacitors correlates very well with premature motherboard death (which otherwise almost never happens).

As to efficiency, last time I saw a thorough comparison (about 3 years ago), the range was around 75% to 87%, and Enermax were still on top. And I've never seen a dead Enermax PSU. I've seen lots of dead lightweights. (I always strip deaders for fans and screws, so I've noticed what all is inside 'em.)

The other point with PSU is look for lots of connectors and heavy-duty wires. That tells you what it will actually support, vs the wattage on the label. (And this will go right along with weight.)

Three years ago I had to replace a TOPower PSU (the old one had been running at max capacity 24/7/365 for ~15 years, finally died of a nearby lightning strike that fried right through two layers of surge protection -- but didn't get past the PSU) and I bought another TOPower because it was the only AT type PSU I could find (yes, it's an old machine!) ... expecting that quality had sadly declined as have so many things... nope; it's identical to the old one. But they sell mostly to the server market, and that will always be better quality than stuff made for the consumer market. (This is also why they still make AT PSUs -- there are still some very old irreplaceable servers out there.)

I would not go with an I3 in a new desktop (unless it's replacing something as old as my AT beast, then it's an upgrade :) ) However I'm not sure the difference between I5 and I7 is significant unless you're a high-end gamer or do video rendering and the like.

As someone says above, overclocking is a lot of the issue some folks have... but that said, technically there is no such thing as an "overclocked" CPU:

CPUs are made in one speed and type at a time. But when you stuff umpty=zillion transistors in a part the size of your fingernail, not all of them turn out "good", and the more of 'em don't work, the slower the individual CPU's functional speed. So CPUs are batch tested (typically about 0.1% of each manufacturing batch) and whatever is the lowest speed it batch-tests at is what the entire batch is labeled. But since some of each batch will be more functional than others, those CPUs can be "overclocked" by setting them to whatever is the actual performance ability of that individual unit. (I've also seen a few that worked fine when set slower than they were labeled, but wouldn't run at all at their supposed speed... luck of the draw in being worse than the batch test indicated.)

Intel has sometimes locked the entire batch at the tested speed, which means those CPUs cannot be overclocked. (This probably saves a lot of grief in the long run.) But AMD made hay with having particularly unreliable manufacturing, in that speeds per batch were all over the place, so a lot of their CPUs could be spectacularly "overclocked"... and the more juice you put through a given CPU, the hotter it runs.

AMD also has historically had an errata sheet (bugs and defects found after manufacturing) 3 times as long as Intel's. If you haunt "Windows problems" forums that require posting of system specs, you'll discover that AMD users with stability issues typically outnumber Intel users 10 to 1, despite AMD having a fraction as much of the market. AMD has not been good about owning up to and replacing CPUs for fatal bugs, either. (Intel generally will replace such CPUs, even out of warranty.)
 
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robjvargas

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That said, most components are not as sensitive as we've all been told. The worst are the pinless CPUs -- fer ghu's sakes, don't touch the contacts! Conversely, you wouldn't believe the abuse RAM puts up with. -- I've been building the beasts for 20 years now and have never zapped a component, despite that I don't take any special precautions other than to work on a wooden surface (and I often have a naked motherboard lying on the table, hooked up and running... in fact one machine lived that way for quite some time before I got around to putting it into a case!) I carry a chunk of cardboard in my house-call kit for the same purpose. Plastic/Formica can be amazingly staticky. Incidentally, so can some cardboard, especially the shiny-surfaced stuff-- check it by doing the carpet shuffle and see if you zap yourself when you touch it. If you're paranoid, touch something conductive just before you handle any component.

15 years here, and I fried one stick of ram. It could have already been bad. Got called away after it was out of the packaging, and didn't take any precautions when I got back to it.

Anyway. the anti-static wrist strap works. THE WIRED ONE. Those wireless ones that claim to use coronal discharge or some other made-up means, just don't. Scam. Even though they aren't expensive, I put them right up with those metallic stickers you were supposed to stick to the inside of the battery compartment cover of cell phones to improve reception. Two worst scams sitting side by side.

If I had an extended time for working on the PC, I had one wire with alligator clips. From a metal spot on a non-dead PSU plugged into a wall socket to a bare-metal spot on the case, then my anti-static wrist strap clipped to the case as well. If the PSU had a three-prong plug, this was about as grounded as you can get. And clipping myself to the case made sure that I stayed at the same potential as the PC.

You can also rest your PSU inside the case for a few minutes while it's plugged into the wall (as long as it's three-prong, and the outlet is as well). The bare metal contact should dissipate any static electricity. When clip yourself to the case. Wait a couple of minutes, then you can unplug the PSU and remove it (if you need to). Stay clipped to the case, though. This isn't perfect. It keeps you neutral to the case, but as you pull components from their packaging, there is a chance that they might have some kind of charge relative to the case (and therefore to you).
 

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15 years here, and I fried one stick of ram. It could have already been bad. Got called away after it was out of the packaging, and didn't take any precautions when I got back to it.

I'd guess it was already bad. RAM is astoundingly tough. I've used countless sticks that have ridden around in pockets, been dumped into bags and boxes any which way, laid around loose all over the place, got picked up off the recycle joint's floor, etc. (I also have a still-working Matrox video card that they'd run over with a forklift.) Most RAM failures are probably not a fried chip, but rather a bad trace in the board. -- Back when the chips were $$ and $$$ each, dead RAM used to be recycled by prying off the chips and putting 'em on new sticks!

This was pretty much the finding with flash drive torture testing, too. All the test units survived being dishwashered and static-shocked. Most survived being run over by a truck. One (IIRC the Sandisk) partially survived being shot -- at least the data on the undamaged part of the chip was still good; some was physically lost.

CPUs are almost as tough, for the most part. The pinless ones as noted are vulnerable (or at least my parts dealer hopped up and down about it, YMMV), but otherwise they seem to survive any sort of crappy handling and storage (so long as you don't bend the pins!) Intel CPUs are really good about protecting themselves by shutting down if they get too hot, too, tho if they've really been cooked it may take a bit of powered-on time in a better environment to get 'em to "come back to life". Conversely overheating an AMD is liable to kill it dead for good.

The only time I've ever had a motherboard killed by shock was from a short in a keyboard (I heard it go ZZFFT right under my hands, that's how I know the source). Last Focus keyboard I ever used, lemme tellya. Never lost any other parts to shock.

Back in the dialup era, a friend had a lightning strike on the phone pole right next to his house, while the computer was connected. The jolt came down the phone line, set the internal modem on fire, and fried a hole in the motherboard, but all the other parts survived!!

(Or, why I use surge protection on every hardwire that enters my computer.)
 
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Locke

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Motherboards are coming with a lot of amazing features nowadays. Many come with bluetooth, and wifi adapters built in--you just have to make sure they're under the product features.

Hrm... I've been shopping boards recently and I hadn't seen much of that. But on a second look, yeah, you're right. I suppose it's just because I'm a Linux user and have to be careful about what wireless chipsets I opt into that I missed it. Still, I don't know how well an internal antenna sharing a steel case with a bunch of other electronics would do against an external antenna, even if it's just on the back of the case itself (though, as far away from the PSU as possible).
 

Osulagh

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I've read i3 is enough for gaming, i5 is excellent and nice and shiny and i7 is unnecessary... is that true or is it work getting an i7?

This all really depends on what you're pairing that CPU with. If you're just building a cheap system with like a $100 GPU, yeah an i3 will probably be more than enough. But if you're pushing for a $300+ GPU, that i3 might become a bottleneck in the system. An i5 will handle swimmingly.

I have to mention: Intel's naming scheme isn't the best. i3, i5, i7 can mean anything. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLSPub4ydiM&list=UU0vBXGSyV14uvJ4hECDOl0Q

But then there's oddballs like the Pentium G3258 which is the only current unlocked Pentium chip and it matches other CPUs in gaming performance. But I wouldn't recommend it for anything other than a budget build.

The differences to make your experience different, but by the time you get to an i5, just for gaming, anything more starts to have steed diminishing returns. If you were video or picture editing, the i7 would be the clear winner. But for just gaming, an i5 will match or even beat a (lower) i7.

Pick a CPU that matches the GPU. Not in price, but in performance. If you're spending $1000 for a build, $200-300 for the GPU, a good i5 is the way to go. Under $600, i3 or Pentium. Over $1500, i7. Over $3000, i7 extreme edition.
 

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Yeah, Intel's i7 naming scheme makes my brain hurt. It's become so complex I don't even try to keep track. The reason some have more cores than others is ...see above... manufacturing variability. A 2-core CPU may actually have 8 cores, but only two of them work. Also, Intel does some market-sweet-spot labeling, so occasionally the CPU is in fact faster than its label (and may be locked at that lower speed), because they can make more money selling more of 'em at a lower price. (Frex, the P75 was at a market sweet spot, but most were in fact P90 CPUs with a P75 label, which is why they reliably "overclocked" to 90MHz.)

At this point the mix-and-match has become so complex, and there are so many options, that rather than muck about with researching individual parts, I'd go to my fave component dealer and say "Sell me CPU, RAM, and motherboard that play nice together at this quality and performance spec and about this price" and after that I'd look for vidcard and whatever else. (Assuming I don't just be lazy and use the onboard video [if present], which nowadays is good enough for pretty much anything but gaming.)

BTW that video touches on another thing I dislike about AMD -- their bogus "equivalent to..." naming scheme. No, they weren't equivalent to the Pentium of the same nominal speed; before CPUs got today's modern features, raw speed mattered.

PS. Biostar motherboards suck. So do VIA and SiS chipsets (want bugs? We got bugs!!) Due to much experience with various others, I only buy motherboards with Intel chipsets.

A very outdated list of my pets, most of which followed me home from the junkyard. ;) Moonbase and Paladin III are the current everyday PCs.
 

Forbidden Snowflake

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PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor (£169.99 @ Amazon UK)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler (£23.82 @ CCL Computers)
Motherboard: Asus Z97-PRO ATX LGA1150 Motherboard (£134.98 @ Amazon UK)
Memory: G.Skill Ares Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (£64.22 @ Ebuyer)
Storage: Crucial MX100 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (£74.39 @ Aria PC)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (£69.98 @ Aria PC)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 980 4GB Video Card (£444.99 @ Ebuyer)
Case: Cooler Master Storm Trooper ATX Full Tower Case (£121.39 @ Scan.co.uk)
Power Supply: Corsair RM 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply (£79.00 @ Aria PC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) (£72.35 @ Aria PC)
Monitor: BenQ GW2765HT 60Hz 27.0" Monitor (£295.80 @ Amazon UK)
Keyboard: Cooler Master CM Storm QuickFire TK Wired Gaming Keyboard (£72.89 @ Amazon UK)
Mouse: SteelSeries 62022 Wired Optical Mouse (£28.90 @ Amazon UK)
Speakers: Logitech Z523 30W 2.1ch Speakers (£55.19 @ Amazon UK)
Total: £1707.89
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-11-03 15:45 GMT+0000

I was playing around and obviously I need to include a monitor and a keyboard and speakers and ended up going over budget simply because I opted for the more expensive video card and motherboard.

I'll obviously be tinkering with this and stepping down a few levels. But that's where I'm at.
 

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Somebody, somewhere, always finds a hole in these lists, but if you're happy with it, there's nothing wrong with it. Have fun.
 
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Reziac

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I would absolutely not buy that Seagate hard drive.

https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-reliability-update-september-2014/

This is an online backup company. Such outfits compile very good hard drive stats, cuz they use 'em by the ton and the HDs work relatively hard.

Otherwise I don't know of any particular problems with any of these components. (Tho I haven't kept up on specifics in recent times, there being too many anymore.) Asus' better products are usually pretty good.
 

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This was the other one I was looking at: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive

Looks better according to the statistics.
 

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Forbidden Snowflake

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Have you used a keyboard with Cherry MX switches before? They're pretty loud. If you are in an apartment with thin walls or live with other people, they might even be too loud. The keyboard you cited has the "Blue" switches. "Brown" has that same tactile bump but aren't quite as loud.

Here's a YouTube video with fairly good info.

Thanks for the video :)

I've had a mechanical keyboard (black) before. I like tactile and the click which is why I was going for blue. It is instead of having a typewriter ;)

I am considering the brown switches, since they come without the click but still have the tactile feel.

I think red will not be good for typing even though it would be great for gaming. Then again I write really really fast and light so maybe red would be ok. See, I'm torn and have been reading up on all the different switches...
 

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You could always do with something cheap until you've had a chance to try them out. The sample board they use in the video is available on the UK Amazon site for £9. Just about any of them will be fine for gaming, IMHO.
 

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You do know you can use your current monitor, keyboard, and mouse until you decide which ones you want, right?

I presently use a $3 keyboard from Goodwill that has a Dell label but appears to actually be a BTC (which only cost about $6 brand new). I prefer as light-touch and silent as I can get, for every purpose. Others prefer keys that fight back. You just have to type on 'em and find out.

I also like a mouse with high DPI, so it only has to be moved a fraction of an inch for any purpose. Others prefer to wave their mouse around, in case the computer didn't notice it moving.
 

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I have the sample keys here (then again the sample keys don't really tell you how typing feels on them), I know I want blue for typing, I'm just a bit worried it's going to be annoying for gaming, which is why I'm considering brown :)

And yes, on laptop so no peripherals. I really like that monitor I put on the list. Which is the only costly thing.