The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

JennaGlatzer · Apr 11, 2005

(cough... cough... off-topic... cough....)

(Yeah, sure, Cao had to go and post something ON-topic just as I was posting that.)

(Seriously. This thread is way too hard to keep up with. Please take the clowning around over to Office Party.)

Sher2 · Apr 11, 2005

Bonnie Gibson said:
WELCOME! I wondered where you got off to. I was banned from Publishamerica board some time ago for speaking out against them. They told me to apologize. I said apologize this! (.............)

Appreciate the comment about my book. Thanks!

Publishamerica is falling down, falling down, falling down. Publishamerica is falling down, my un-fair publisher! Take the keys and lock her up, lock her up, lock her up. Take the keys and lock her up, my un-fair publisher.

Y'all have a good day... I am!

Bonnie, your spunk absolutely rocks. (I'm trying to break myself from using that other "R" word.) :Jump:

JennaGlatzer · Apr 11, 2005

The press release thing baffles me. Do people really think that newspapers "owe" them coverage?

My local paper has gleefully ignored me for years. Newspapers run what they think is newsworthy. Maybe in a small town, just the fact that you're a local author is enough (especially if they know nothing about PA and don't realize it's not a "real" publisher). But in most cases, just the fact that you've written a book isn't enough to get ink in a paper. Sending them a press release in no way obligates them to respond, much less run it, especially when the press release is a thinly-veiled advertisement for a vanity press with no specifics about the local author whatsoever.

NancyMehl · Apr 11, 2005

Jenna.....

JennaGlatzer said:
(cough... cough... off-topic... cough....)

Hey, guys. Jenna's got a nasty case of "off-topic." I'd stay away from her.....

PA authors who have asked to have their rights returned are getting these terrible contracts with the $5,000 penalties for disparaging PA's "good name." cough... cough... puke... cough. (Dang it, Jenna! Cover your mouth!)

Someone asked if the clause was actually legally binding. I'm sorry, maybe that was answered, but I don't remember seeing it. Is it binding? Is there anyone who really believes PA would risk taking anyone to court? Of course, some authors are going to believe it. People who aren't hooked up with a forum like this will sign it - and no one will ever hear from them again.

It makes me furious. This is just another strong-arm, manipulative move from the bully bunch.

Nancy

T42 · Apr 11, 2005

JennaGlatzer said:
The press release thing baffles me. Do people really think that newspapers "owe" them coverage?

I don't believe for a second that they even send them as my son is good friends with the editor in Austin who told him they would print the press release as "herbs" are a big thing in Austin and they never received a letter about my book. (cough... cough... off-topic... cough....)
(and ouch!)

CaoPaux · Apr 11, 2005

NancyMehl said:
Someone asked if the clause was actually legally binding. I'm sorry, maybe that was answered, but I don't remember seeing it. Is it binding? Is there anyone who really believes PA would risk taking anyone to court? Of course, some authors are going to believe it. People who aren't hooked up with a forum like this will sign it - and no one will ever hear from them again.

IANAL, but I've gathered that it's not enforceable on anyone but the signer (and even that’s iffy). So trying to gag the disgruntled’s friends and family won't hold up, and a certain cartilaginous predator is itching to have PA try to enforce it at all.

T42 · Apr 11, 2005

CaoPaux said:
IANAL, but I've gathered that it's not enforceable on anyone but the signer (and even that’s iffy). So trying to gag the disgruntled’s friends and family won't hold up, and a certain cartilaginous predator is itching to have PA try to enforce it at all.

It couldn't hold up. How are they going to gag the whole famdamnly? Have a reunion and make everyone sign?

Ed Williams · Apr 11, 2005

Jenna makes a real good point here...

JennaGlatzer said:
My local paper has gleefully ignored me for years. Newspapers run what they think is newsworthy. Maybe in a small town, just the fact that you're a local author is enough (especially if they know nothing about PA and don't realize it's not a "real" publisher). But in most cases, just the fact that you've written a book isn't enough to get ink in a paper. Sending them a press release in no way obligates them to respond, much less run it, especially when the press release is a thinly-veiled advertisement for a vanity press with no specifics about the local author whatsoever.

I hate to say it, but the truth is the truth - as writers, we put a lot more emphasis on writing and publishing a book than the general public does, and I think that the new printing technologies are partly to blame. With POD and all of the "publishers" now available, anyone who wants to be printed/published can find someone to do it for them. And guess what, every writer who does so expects local media coverage when their book comes out, and I'm sure to the newspapers/other media it gets to be very old hat. So they ignore it, or just simply say no to requests for publicity. It's no different with the bookstores, most of them, generally speaking, are not dusting off the welcome mat for POD or self-published books. Too much of it out there, and with no quality controls in place being the rule rather than the exception, too much of a risk for the booksellers...

Patricia · Apr 11, 2005

CaoPaux said:
This one speaks for itself, methinks:
http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/newauthors/3182.htm

-----

This new "deal" of PA's is a nightmare to me! Are they locking new authors in to the revision/edit that they do if you go with option 1? Good grief! We won't know any details until someone has actually been through the 2 options and gives a report of the outcome. Evidently you have to make a choice after the contract is signed? Are those options mentioned in the contract? This poster acts as if s/he wasn't aware of the options until after the signing of the ocntract. I can tell you without answers to the above questions that it is a losing game for the author. As I said a (living) nightmare. Breaks my heart!

Author if you are reading this, and you have not as yet signed with PA -- Please listen to those who have been there and know what we speak of -- DON'T SIGN A CONTRACT.

T42 · Apr 11, 2005

Ann said:
This new "deal" of PA's is a nightmare to me! Are they locking new authors in to the revision/edit that they do if you go with option 1? Good grief! We won't know any details until someone has actually been through the 2 options and gives a report of the outcome.

Dang, Pa doesn't have any employees bright enough to hit spell check now?

Sher2 · Apr 11, 2005

CaoPaux said:
IANAL, but I've gathered that it's not enforceable on anyone but the signer (and even that’s iffy). So trying to gag the disgruntled’s friends and family won't hold up, and a certain cartilaginous predator is itching to have PA try to enforce it at all.

I don't see how it could possibly be enforceable, either. A contract is binding only upon the parties who sign it. There's no way PA can work up some kind of bizarre contract that requires the signatures of your mother, your maiden aunt, and your third cousin twice removed. I would just adore to see said cartilaginous predator bite a chunk out of a test case. :Thumbs:

Sher2 · Apr 11, 2005

Ed Williams said:
I hate to say it, but the truth is the truth - as writers, we put a lot more emphasis on writing and publishing a book than the general public does, and I think that the new printing technologies are partly to blame. With POD and all of the "publishers" now available, anyone who wants to be printed/published can find someone to do it for them. And guess what, every writer who does so expects local media coverage when their book comes out, and I'm sure to the newspapers/other media it gets to be very old hat. So they ignore it, or just simply say no to requests for publicity. It's no different with the bookstores, most of them, generally speaking, are not dusting off the welcome mat for POD or self-published books. Too much of it out there, and with no quality controls in place being the rule rather than the exception, too much of a risk for the booksellers...

I have to confess that I quaked in fear that my local paper would run PA's press release, assuming they even sent one, which I don't think they did. By the time the whole nefarious process had gotten to that stage, I already knew what kind of odoriferous mess I'd stepped in and would have died of embarrassment if there'd been any mention of my idiocy in the paper. For once, I was glad PA didn't do what they said they would.

T42 · Apr 11, 2005

Sher2 said:
I have to confess that I quaked in fear that my local paper would run PA's press release, assuming they even sent one, which I don't think they did. By the time the whole nefarious process had gotten to that stage, I already knew what kind of odoriferous mess I'd stepped in and would have died of embarrassment if there'd been any mention of my idiocy in the paper. For once, I was glad PA didn't do what they said they would.

My feelings exactly little missy. I couldn't have said it better. (Really, I mean it! I don't even know what most of those words mean) There isn't a rock big enough in Texas to hide my withered ego.

Patricia · Apr 11, 2005

JennaGlatzer said:
The press release thing baffles me. Do people really think that newspapers "owe" them coverage?

My local paper has gleefully ignored me for years. Newspapers run what they think is newsworthy.

Small community, in my case, worked. However, the publicity was not generated from any "press release" that PA sent out. It was generated through other sources. And my press release DID NOT mention that PA was my "publisher." I thought that so kind of them!

Christine N. · Apr 11, 2005

Sparhawk said:
I was pondering this thought as I was busy mixing Jenna a Margarita.

? A great many of them seem reasonable, well spoken yet actually beleive that their situation is both fair and equitableMaybe the people on the PA board are, well, you know, just happy with where they are and where they're going. IS this a possibility. Maybe there's some invisable ink in my contract that I failed to shine under a UV light, or some fine print that my aging eyes simply missed. OR !!! Maybe they're just happy with where they are.

B. There are several more newbies still in the "Honeymoon" phase of their PA experience. And reality will soon decend upon them like an anchor dropped from an ocean liner sinking their boat of literary hopes and dreams (Reference Caddyshack for a visual.. the Ted Night / Rodney Dengerfield boat scene.)

C. They realy truly beleive that they have "Arrived" and that it get's no better and they can NEVER be published through a traditional big publisher. Also that the "Movers and shakers are all watching the great things gong on at PA and shaking in fear."

D. Secretly they know that their work is not good enough and after several rejections from established Publishing Houses they realized that this is as far as their star will rise and they will not allow anybody to dare suggest that there is a better way of doing business because they already know that their overpriced book will never sell because it can't compete in a bookstore market.

First of all... where's MY margharita??? :tongue

Secondly, I think there's a combination of B, C, and D on the PA boards.

B, well, they just don't know any better, and PA snookered them good. Some of them really want to be career writers, and the truth is going to hit them really hard and sting really badly. Be ready to catch them when they fall.

C - again, they just don't know any better and the sting of being snookered good is too much for their ego to bear. And there are those who just wrote a little book, they're glad to have it in their hands, and that's the end of it (Pierette comes to mind). They don't care if they sell alot of books, b/c they don't really want to BE a writer.

D... I think there are some of these there, but they're not the majority. PA works for them, but so would Lulu. These are the "but it was right there in your contract, why didn't you read it," people.

All in all, it's a land of misinformation and, more importantly, MISDIRECTION. Pubic Anomoly is a master of both.

Crystal Rivers · Apr 11, 2005

I remember when I first arrived at PA over a year ago, and had the highest hopes of finally seeing my book in print. I, too, was a naive rookie in the world of publishing. I still have a lot to learn, but am so much wiser for now seeing PA for what it is--an unethical, unprofessional, moneygrubbing, and rude bunch of nasties.

At first they make you think like they are doing you a favor, and you're supposed to be so excited when that dollar bill arrives in the mail. When I got mine, common sense told me something was not right. The certificate that came with it was printed on plain white paper, and appeared downright cheaply done. I could have done a better job on my own computer.

It was all downhill from there, and I just had to chalk it off as a learning experience, albeit an expensive one. I feel it won't be a total loss if I can warn other first-time authors to avoid them like you would Shemp.

I can only hope they will listen.

I'd also tell them to read this AW thread from start to finish with an open mind before they sign on PA's crooked dotted line.

One more thing: My time on the PA boards may be terminated soon. Is there anything you would like me to say before my password key doesn't fit in the lock anymore? I don't think they'd let me say this:

Crystal

Christine N. · Apr 11, 2005

Ed Williams said:
I hate to say it, but the truth is the truth - as writers, we put a lot more emphasis on writing and publishing a book than the general public does, and I think that the new printing technologies are partly to blame. Too much of it out there, and with no quality controls in place being the rule rather than the exception, too much of a risk for the booksellers...

See, now, y'all say that, but I see articles for signings by local authors all over my paper. There's a particular coffee shop in a town near me where they all seem to go, and the paper covers them all. Hmmm. I think I'll have to go and see them when my book comes out, huh?

astonwest · Apr 11, 2005

Darn, covers were all the raging topic earlier...this is what happens when you have to go to work, I guess...

but I'm going to talk about covers anyway.

I originally gave two options with my AQ, one of which was rather bland and lame, and the other involved a scantily-clad woman on the cover. Unfortunately, they must not have had enough borrowed clip art to go for the latter.

Too bad, though, because people might have handed over the over-priced amount if they thought they were getting porn inside...

SeanDSchaffer · Apr 11, 2005

To all authors thinking of signing with PA...

Ann said:
Author if you are reading this, and you have not as yet signed with PA -- Please listen to those who have been there and know what we speak of -- DON'T SIGN A CONTRACT.

Agreed. If you haven't signed with PA yet, take it from those of us who have -- don't sign a contract with them. Don't listen to their slick words. It may take a long time and a lot of effort, but there are many good, real publishers who will be willing to look at your work. You just have to know where to look.

And if you're reading this, you've already come to one good site that'll be able to give you the information you seek concerning real publishers and what exactly you're looking for to publish your work. AbsoluteWrite is a lot more than just this thread. If you go to the top of this page you'll find a hyperlink list of different places on these boards. Click on them; explore them; get to know the site and the people, and you'll find we're not just talking about one bad publishing company -- we're more importantly talking about writers and writing.

Also I might suggest Preditors and Editors, and WriterBeware, two great sites that delve deep into publishers' policies and give recommendations accordingly. They have a lot of experience, and they know what to look for in contracts, in policies, and in general business practice. Their experience far exceeds that of many newer authors, myself included, and I highly recommend both sites.

Good luck to you all, and as Jenna Glatzer would say, Write On! :Thumbs:

T42 · Apr 11, 2005

I don't know how that happened this was suppose to be on Crystal's quote! It wouldn't last long but I would really love the contradiction between B&N and PA posted. Maybe they would at least have time to get the email address and phone #.
Dear Memory McDermott,
Your letter to Mary Ellen Keating was forwarded to me for a response as my department manages the business relationships Barnes & Noble has with new start up publishers, and self-published authors, like yourself. All the titles PublishAmerica produces are available to Barnes & Noble customers either through orders in the stores, or online via Barnes & Noble.com (www.bn.com). The books are printed (on demand) when they are ordered, and shipped to the customer's home or back to the store for customer pick up. The terms for Publish America titles are not competitive in the trade bookstore marketplace: the books are non-returnable, the discount is not favorable, and most of the titles including Tea for Two Nature's Apothecary are about $5.00 over the going price for titles in the category. These factors in combination inform our decision not to stock the titles in the stores, and for the stores to decide not to do an event with the titles.
I hope this information is helpful.
Marcella A Smith
Director Small Press & Vendor Relations
Barnes & Noble, Inc
122 Fifth Avenue
New York, NY 10011
212-633-3454
212-463-5677 fax
[email protected]
(AND NO PA, this is not from a local B&N employee)
Originally Posted by Infocenter
A Vice President at Barnes and Noble wrote us a letter, saying, "We very much believe in print-on-demand (POD) technology as a cost-effective tool available for publishers to extend the range of their title offerings to Barnes & Noble... We believe that POD represents an opportunity to increase the range of titles we offer... We will continue to stock every title that you publish, which enables us to rapidly replenish our stores..."

Sher2 · Apr 11, 2005

Crystal Rivers said:
One more thing: My time on the PA boards may be terminated soon. Is there anything you would like me to say before my password key doesn't fit in the lock anymore? I don't think they'd let me say this:

Crystal

What Memory suggested. Or, if you really want to give them the finger, a link in huge, bold letters to this joint. :Thumbs:

Sher2 · Apr 11, 2005

Christine N. said:
I think there are some of these there, but they're not the majority. PA works for them, but so would Lulu. These are the "but it was right there in your contract, why didn't you read it," people.

All in all, it's a land of misinformation and, more importantly, MISDIRECTION. Pubic Anomoly is a master of both.

Yep, I do believe you've pegged 'em.

PubicAnomoly, Christine? Is that what I think it is? :ROFL:

Ed Williams · Apr 11, 2005

This is fresh off the PA boards...

When you have your foot in the door try not to close the door on your foot! Only about 15 to 20 percent of authors who send their manuscripts to Publish America get in...Yeah sure no big advance..no hard covers..no promotion...but there is your book in about 6 months and it didn't cost you a dime...If you think a larger publisher will pick you up you are a dreamer or Elvis Presley...I've had a major publisher tell me that I can't do any better than what Publish America is doing for me...These days it's the name that counts..The "big boys" are after "names".

...with the amount of information out there that a simple Google search would reveal, this is both amazing and disheartening all at the same time....

SeanDSchaffer · Apr 11, 2005

Christine N. said:
D... I think there are some of these there, but they're not the majority. PA works for them, but so would Lulu. These are the "but it was right there in your contract, why didn't you read it," people.

Christine,

I'd say there are a lot more following this particular philosophy on PA's boards than any of us may realize. I could be biased, though, in that respect: I was such a person myself. If someone had a question, I'd refer them to the Contract. If someone had a gripe, I'd say 'Why didn't you read the Contract? It's right there.'

The thing about all this is it was partially the Contract language which I didn't get the first time I read the thing and signed it, that made me realize PA wasn't all that good of a company. And that's part of the reason I left. That and the fact they treated authors so poorly.

And I've seen quite a few other people doing the 'Why didn't you read the Contract' thing on their boards, it's one of the hardest things to deal with any more. Hence I don't go to their boards any more. I haven't in quite some time.

But I imagine a lot of PA's 'Read the Contract' people will soon read what I read -- or something like it -- in their contract, and realize they've been shafted. To me it's always cool when such a person makes such a realization and thus distances themselves from the 'PA fold,' as it's sometimes called over there. Those people become, in my opinion, some of the most outspoken of PA's adversaries, and at the same time, advocates of fellow authors.

AnneMarble · Apr 11, 2005

Ed Williams said:
...With POD and all of the "publishers" now available, anyone who wants to be printed/published can find someone to do it for them. And guess what, every writer who does so expects local media coverage when their book comes out, and I'm sure to the newspapers/other media it gets to be very old hat. So they ignore it, or just simply say no to requests for publicity.

I can understand why they do that. In the past, every once in a while, the paper used to profile local authors who had gotten published by the big name publishers. This was true even if they wrote (gasp!) genre fiction. (This was a fairly large local paper, too.) If my mother saw the article, she usually made sure I saw it.

Then, along came things like POD and vanity e-publishers. Excited friends and relatives would cut out an article they'd seen on some doomed publishing idea or another. Sure, it's the thought that counts, but sometimes I'd feel like saying "I know, it sounds great, but don't you realize I shouldn't have to pay to get published?!"

Then, some papers started publishing profiles of authors who had gotten published with POD presses. Then I really started to get annoyed. Grrrr. I'm sure local authors with legitimate book credits were even more upset. Imagine you're Peter Gunn, a mystery writer in the city of Townsville, and you've been publishing novels for years with a major publisher, but the Townsville Gazette keeps ignoring you, despite Edgar award nominations and the like. (A lot of papers refuse to cover their local genre authors.) Then, Joe Smith pays a vanity press to publish his memoir about his collection of cereal boxes, and they publish an interview with him. I have a feeling Joe Smith will become a murder victim in the next Peter Gunn novel...
:guns:

The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

wishes you happiness

Auroraless ExPAtriate

wishes you happiness

She Who Resonates...

Herb Lady

Mostly Harmless

Herb Lady

California Dreaming

Herb Lady

Auroraless ExPAtriate

Auroraless ExPAtriate

Herb Lady

California Dreaming

haz a shiny new book cover

haz a shiny new book cover

2 WIP? A glutton for punishment

SeanDSchaffer

Herb Lady

Auroraless ExPAtriate

Auroraless ExPAtriate

SeanDSchaffer

Nefarious Ghost Fan