That bunny suit is from Days of our Lives isn't it? If that is you Jenna...you are my new lucky rabbits foot.
Kevin
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Jenna's Bunny suit pic is her favorite character from Buffy...something about a demon-slayer afraid of rabbits, dressed up for Halloween.
I really am going to go get those DVDs.
I really am going to go get those DVDs.
Carol, since neither of us will go back to where we were, let me tell you a few things, since you read these posts. I have not meant to hurt anyone, and I am not sure you mean me personally, but if you will look through these posts, you will have to admit that I have tried to get people not to make fun of the Authors over at PA. Though I have admitted that I have done so, I do try not to now.
You say that your book is doing well, and that if a book is good, it will stand on its own merit. Allow me to say that I have said the same thing, (lied), so, I do not really know if you are telling the truth or not, if you are, wonderful! I do not want you to fail, but I do know, from people who have been with publishamerica for longer than we have, that you cannot succeed, not really, unless you intend to buy your own books.
My email is not embarrassing anyone, as a matter of fact it's worded in a way that allows better for a good response, yet people are not giving me that. Here is the letter (again):
Hi. I am a publishamerica author with three books by this company. I am emailing authors who have been with them for at least a little over a year to try to find out what their experience has been like for their book so far. I would like to know how you feel about publishamerica, good or bad, now that you've had time away from the other authors and been out there alone for awhile. Can you please share your thoughts with me on this matter? Any information is appreciated! Thanks!
I am not with anyone on this, it was my idea and I am doing it alone. I come on here telling some results because I AM AMAZED! Who knew? While I was on the message board over there, I was a happy author, I loved everyone and I really enjoyed getting to know them all. OH, there was that psycho, and I can be a hot head, but for the most part, I enjoyed it over there. However, I cannot ignore the facts. Yes, I do believe that I am doing the right thing. No, I do not think there is anything wrong with asking authors how it's going. Will there be a list? I have not decided yet. Consider this though; MANY people are AFRAID to be on a public list. Answer me this, all you have to do is register to post…I think…why in the world would so many people be afraid of a publisher? A PUBLISHER!
Here is food for thought. I do not think there are anywhere near 11.000 authors. I will prove that in a little while, want to bet?
Anyway, you can read all of my posts here and you'll see that I have not done anything wrong, I'm really concerned with the publisher and the authors…in different ways. Before you decide to go to bat for PA against me, maybe you should email some of the authors over there and see what they have to say about me. While you are on the board over there being so "happy" I am here talking to a lot of them in an email conversation trying to be supportive because now they know the truth and I am sorry…but I didn't hurt them, publishamerica did.
You say that your book is doing well, and that if a book is good, it will stand on its own merit. Allow me to say that I have said the same thing, (lied), so, I do not really know if you are telling the truth or not, if you are, wonderful! I do not want you to fail, but I do know, from people who have been with publishamerica for longer than we have, that you cannot succeed, not really, unless you intend to buy your own books.
My email is not embarrassing anyone, as a matter of fact it's worded in a way that allows better for a good response, yet people are not giving me that. Here is the letter (again):
Hi. I am a publishamerica author with three books by this company. I am emailing authors who have been with them for at least a little over a year to try to find out what their experience has been like for their book so far. I would like to know how you feel about publishamerica, good or bad, now that you've had time away from the other authors and been out there alone for awhile. Can you please share your thoughts with me on this matter? Any information is appreciated! Thanks!
I am not with anyone on this, it was my idea and I am doing it alone. I come on here telling some results because I AM AMAZED! Who knew? While I was on the message board over there, I was a happy author, I loved everyone and I really enjoyed getting to know them all. OH, there was that psycho, and I can be a hot head, but for the most part, I enjoyed it over there. However, I cannot ignore the facts. Yes, I do believe that I am doing the right thing. No, I do not think there is anything wrong with asking authors how it's going. Will there be a list? I have not decided yet. Consider this though; MANY people are AFRAID to be on a public list. Answer me this, all you have to do is register to post…I think…why in the world would so many people be afraid of a publisher? A PUBLISHER!
Here is food for thought. I do not think there are anywhere near 11.000 authors. I will prove that in a little while, want to bet?
Anyway, you can read all of my posts here and you'll see that I have not done anything wrong, I'm really concerned with the publisher and the authors…in different ways. Before you decide to go to bat for PA against me, maybe you should email some of the authors over there and see what they have to say about me. While you are on the board over there being so "happy" I am here talking to a lot of them in an email conversation trying to be supportive because now they know the truth and I am sorry…but I didn't hurt them, publishamerica did.
Ed, I just read somewhere that people who drink Icee's are subjective to be nymphos. Now, I know it is true because I read it online somewhere, PA board I think? Pretty sure HB said it..and if he said it then it must be true.
Sorry Ed, you are no virgin. Me on the other hand, am. Listen here kids..daddy's working. Uhmmmm, uhmmmmm...they are adopted?
No, seriously, I'm no virgin. I have been screw^d by PA so many times that is impossible. Don't they say if you have no sex for seven years you are born again virgin? So, when my book is released by PA I will be a virgin again. WOOOHOOOO!!!
Kevin
Sorry Ed, you are no virgin. Me on the other hand, am. Listen here kids..daddy's working. Uhmmmm, uhmmmmm...they are adopted?
No, seriously, I'm no virgin. I have been screw^d by PA so many times that is impossible. Don't they say if you have no sex for seven years you are born again virgin? So, when my book is released by PA I will be a virgin again. WOOOHOOOO!!!
Kevin
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DaveKuzminski said:
True, or if as James said, someone is actually taking time to READ the manuscripts before release--either or could be the cause of the slow down.
Yes, we'll definitely have to watch the releases this summer, won't we?
Jenn
Christine: It might be worth mentioning to them that if we're right about PA being sleaze, then there's no way that PA can harm their careers other than by hindering it so long as they stick with PA. Their chances of a writing career will go up as soon as they break loose from PA so they can learn to do things correctly.
Kevin: Definitely contact your local police to report that incident. If it wasn't an official visit, then they've got problems that they'll want to see to since that could drag down public confidence in them. You might also mention that you're informing the media because other citizens have a right to know there might be a police imposter.
Kevin: Definitely contact your local police to report that incident. If it wasn't an official visit, then they've got problems that they'll want to see to since that could drag down public confidence in them. You might also mention that you're informing the media because other citizens have a right to know there might be a police imposter.
bikrpreacher said:
Chris,
Do they say 11000 'published' authors? If not, I think what they're referring to is how many people have signed, a substantial proportion of that number may not have gone to print. It would, however, be interesting to see if they've inflated any more figures.
And I think you're doing a great job
. It must be a lot of hard work.
DaveKuzminski said:
Will do, I plan to spend the week end responding to everyone again...
Sorry for the earlier posts...I shouldn't get so upset, but knowing everything I've learned here, and everything I continue to learn, it amazes me to no end that some people just will not listen to reason! That and I just HATE to be criticized, LOL.
bikrpreacher said:
What's up, Chris? Are you taking some flak from happy la-la PAers? You're bound to get a small percentage who don't want their apple carts upset, but try not to take it to heart. Shrug it off and keep on doing what you're doing. Clearly, you're making some progress and helping some people.
About the 11,000 authors -- I'm not sure that PA has distinguished between published ones and those waiting in the wings. Their claim is 11,000 "happy" authors.
Sher2 said:What's up, Chris? Are you taking some flak from happy la-la PAers? You're bound to get a small percentage who don't want their apple carts upset, but try not to take it to heart. Shrug it off and keep on doing what you're doing. Clearly, you're making some progress and helping some people.
About the 11,000 authors -- I'm not sure that PA has distinguished between published ones and those waiting in the wings. Their claim is 11,000 "happy" authors.
Flak, yes, but I'll have to get over it...it was just one in all this time, what a sissy I am!
Here is an interesting post:
http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/general/2079.htm
Message:
Could someone please tell me why is it that I visited a certain website and I found the title of my book and my name and I also saw a cover pic which isn't the cover design that P.A has for me and under this info this is what was there
"This book is printed on demand, there may be a delay fulfilling your order.
Binding: Paperback
RRP £9.50, our price £8.83, saves £0.66 " The website is studentbookworld.com in the UK apparently.
People are answering back about the cover...but what about the printed on demand/don't they see what it says? My goodness...I need sleep.
priceless1
Banned
Whew, finally made it the new boards. Very cool once you figure it all out. Okay, that was Diana's and my room we were all partying in...who are you akaa1a? I probably fed you wine and Diana's stale pretzels.akaa1a said:
Hi Kev.
Atlanta Nights Is NOT Fraud
For those of you just joining us, who have now read Kevin's excellent first-hand account of the sleaziness to which PA has stooped, it might be worth reiterating something of which you might not be aware: It is not fraud to submit an unpublishable manuscript to a publisher.
Here is what I posted on that subject at the Publishers Weekly discussion, after "Carl Ross"'s agressive attempts to propagate that fiction:
For those of you just joining us, who have now read Kevin's excellent first-hand account of the sleaziness to which PA has stooped, it might be worth reiterating something of which you might not be aware: It is not fraud to submit an unpublishable manuscript to a publisher.
Here is what I posted on that subject at the Publishers Weekly discussion, after "Carl Ross"'s agressive attempts to propagate that fiction:
I trust that if I'm wrong here, our own resident Law Shark will feed me my words with a side-order of crow.
On Writers' Communities
Jenna (among others) asked why SFWA is more active than other writers' organizations in anti-scam activities (among others). This is just my guess more than anything, but I think part of it is that there has been less distance between speculative fiction writers and science fiction editors than in many other publishing categories. Most, if not all, speculative fiction editors have been fans for much longer than they've been editors. That's far less true, in my experience, for other categories of fiction. For example, since nobody below the very top editors gets the privilege of dealing with only "literary fiction," editors in "general fiction" must have broader taste. For whatever reason, romance seems to be largely a way-station to other parts of the industry, as do mystery and thriller imprints. And, sadly, there's little if any connection between nonfiction editors and nonfiction authors.
So, for what it's worth, I think there's just a closer connection between the editors and fans/potential writers/actual writers in speculative fiction than in many other publishing categories. That means that the knowledge locked up in the publishing industry has a greater chance to move by osmosis into the writing community. More knowledge generally leads, in a large enough group, to more willingness to object to lies.
Generally. It certainly doesn't work with politicians…
Jenna (among others) asked why SFWA is more active than other writers' organizations in anti-scam activities (among others). This is just my guess more than anything, but I think part of it is that there has been less distance between speculative fiction writers and science fiction editors than in many other publishing categories. Most, if not all, speculative fiction editors have been fans for much longer than they've been editors. That's far less true, in my experience, for other categories of fiction. For example, since nobody below the very top editors gets the privilege of dealing with only "literary fiction," editors in "general fiction" must have broader taste. For whatever reason, romance seems to be largely a way-station to other parts of the industry, as do mystery and thriller imprints. And, sadly, there's little if any connection between nonfiction editors and nonfiction authors.
So, for what it's worth, I think there's just a closer connection between the editors and fans/potential writers/actual writers in speculative fiction than in many other publishing categories. That means that the knowledge locked up in the publishing industry has a greater chance to move by osmosis into the writing community. More knowledge generally leads, in a large enough group, to more willingness to object to lies.
Generally. It certainly doesn't work with politicians…
If drinking ICEEs makes you a nympho, all I can say for myself is:
And direct off the PA "About Us" page:
And direct off the PA "About Us" page:
Now, I'd be the first to admit that there are some good books over at PA, unfortunately for those authors, but can y'all believe the bit about "thousands of reviews?" I'll tell y'all, Moe-randa, Larry, and Curlem make me want to...
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Alas!
Alas! Atlanta Nights only scored three out of those five!
Since it was an electronic submission, we couldn't figure out a way to submit it in crayon, and as we now know there's nothing that's inappropriate to PA.
(Oh, I know! They say they don't take porn -- but you should go through and count the number of sex scenes in Atlanta Nights, along with inappropriate discussions of various body parts.)
NicoleJLeBoeuf said:
Alas! Atlanta Nights only scored three out of those five!
Since it was an electronic submission, we couldn't figure out a way to submit it in crayon, and as we now know there's nothing that's inappropriate to PA.
(Oh, I know! They say they don't take porn -- but you should go through and count the number of sex scenes in Atlanta Nights, along with inappropriate discussions of various body parts.)
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Nope. It Ain't Fraud
Nicole is correct. It's not fraud to submit a scam manuscript.
To go even farther, it's impossible to be fraud unless/until the "victim" has been deprived of something of value. As a matter of law, an open submission process is merely a matter of normal business procedure, and the "time wasted" is not a thing of value that one can be deprived of. So, if the submitter doesn't sign a contract and take an advance, there's no possible basis for fraud.
The elements of fraud are:
* A misrepresentation of fact (or, when there is a duty to disclose, failure to disclose that fact)
* With the intent to deceive
* That is reasonably and actually relied upon by the victim
* That is the proximate cause
* Of a definable loss of a thing of value (usually, but not always, money) by the victim
(There are, of course, lots of other ways to say this; some authorities say that there are only four elements, but they aren't even consistent in how they combine what others call five elements.)
Nicole is correct. It's not fraud to submit a scam manuscript.
To go even farther, it's impossible to be fraud unless/until the "victim" has been deprived of something of value. As a matter of law, an open submission process is merely a matter of normal business procedure, and the "time wasted" is not a thing of value that one can be deprived of. So, if the submitter doesn't sign a contract and take an advance, there's no possible basis for fraud.
The elements of fraud are:
* A misrepresentation of fact (or, when there is a duty to disclose, failure to disclose that fact)
* With the intent to deceive
* That is reasonably and actually relied upon by the victim
* That is the proximate cause
* Of a definable loss of a thing of value (usually, but not always, money) by the victim
(There are, of course, lots of other ways to say this; some authorities say that there are only four elements, but they aren't even consistent in how they combine what others call five elements.)
All you'd need is a scanner and an eFax account. Oh, and some crayons, of course. And waaaayyyyy too much time on your hands.James D. Macdonald said:
James D. Macdonald said:
I read Atlanta Nights and I agree PA officially accepts porn - not exactly the Christian approach they pretend to be, hell claim to be.
My god there were so many funny body part sex scenes..made me laugh out loud and resemble this --
at times...
..
I must admit, I'm curious about at what point it would be valid to call a business a scam.
Would it be only at the point where the business/management is/are convicted of fraud? Or can it occur before then when intended victims notice hidden statements inside the contract that apply unfair conditions upon someone such as a company imposed fine? Or would it be when the business fails to put the victim's product in the proper venues thus preventing the victim from ever having the opportunity to make any profit from the "joint" venture and does so to all its contracted victims? Or would it be when the business refuses to communicate properly and promptly with the victim and instead heaps out abuse to all other parties? Or when the business fails to perform according to its own contract on a massive scale?
Of course, some of these businesses I'm hinting at have no idea that they're probably also violating US Federal laws concerning fraud since some of their victims are communicating by computer over dial up modems thus putting that activity directly into wire fraud provisions.
Would it be only at the point where the business/management is/are convicted of fraud? Or can it occur before then when intended victims notice hidden statements inside the contract that apply unfair conditions upon someone such as a company imposed fine? Or would it be when the business fails to put the victim's product in the proper venues thus preventing the victim from ever having the opportunity to make any profit from the "joint" venture and does so to all its contracted victims? Or would it be when the business refuses to communicate properly and promptly with the victim and instead heaps out abuse to all other parties? Or when the business fails to perform according to its own contract on a massive scale?
Of course, some of these businesses I'm hinting at have no idea that they're probably also violating US Federal laws concerning fraud since some of their victims are communicating by computer over dial up modems thus putting that activity directly into wire fraud provisions.
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Fraud
If publishers could charge people who sent in lousy manuscripts with fraud, they could give up publishing and live off the proceeds of their lawsuits.
The elements of fraud are:
* A misrepresentation of fact
And fraud fails right there on the first element with both the Purple Pony and Atlanta Nights: In both cases, the manuscript submitted was, in fact, a manuscript.
And we did, in fact, want them to offer a contract for it.
I don't know about Kevin's cover letter, but in our case every point in the cover letter and the associated information that they requested was literally true. (You know the "literally true" game, right, Larry? PA books are available in bricks-and-mortar bookstores... over at the Special Order desk.)
==============
I have a question: How did anyone get any police department interested in "literary fraud" in the first place? I find that very hard to believe. There are so many literary frauds out there, and even with the worst of them getting the cops interested is like pushing a two-ton stone uphill. Of the scammy/scummy agents how many have been investigated? It took ten years before anyone was interested in Dorothy Deering. Edit Ink, Woodside, Janet Kay, PresTige ... a struggle to get anyone in authority to take notice each time. Yet someone wants us to believe that ... oh, come on.
I mean, I can see the police sergeant who took the call from Willem. "Un-hunh. Sent you a manuscript, did he? And it was bad? What do you mean, 'bad,' like, was it pornographic? Convey a threat? Reveal national security secrets? No? Okay, yeah, I see. It was badly written. Your feelings were hurt. Yeah, we'll look right into it...."
How many miles by road from that Honda dealership in Ohio to where you lived at the time, Kevin?
I wonder -- of those thousand books that Larry says haven't sold a single copy -- has Larry charged any of those authors with "fraud"?
If publishers could charge people who sent in lousy manuscripts with fraud, they could give up publishing and live off the proceeds of their lawsuits.
The elements of fraud are:
* A misrepresentation of fact
And fraud fails right there on the first element with both the Purple Pony and Atlanta Nights: In both cases, the manuscript submitted was, in fact, a manuscript.
And we did, in fact, want them to offer a contract for it.
I don't know about Kevin's cover letter, but in our case every point in the cover letter and the associated information that they requested was literally true. (You know the "literally true" game, right, Larry? PA books are available in bricks-and-mortar bookstores... over at the Special Order desk.)
==============
I have a question: How did anyone get any police department interested in "literary fraud" in the first place? I find that very hard to believe. There are so many literary frauds out there, and even with the worst of them getting the cops interested is like pushing a two-ton stone uphill. Of the scammy/scummy agents how many have been investigated? It took ten years before anyone was interested in Dorothy Deering. Edit Ink, Woodside, Janet Kay, PresTige ... a struggle to get anyone in authority to take notice each time. Yet someone wants us to believe that ... oh, come on.
I mean, I can see the police sergeant who took the call from Willem. "Un-hunh. Sent you a manuscript, did he? And it was bad? What do you mean, 'bad,' like, was it pornographic? Convey a threat? Reveal national security secrets? No? Okay, yeah, I see. It was badly written. Your feelings were hurt. Yeah, we'll look right into it...."
How many miles by road from that Honda dealership in Ohio to where you lived at the time, Kevin?
I wonder -- of those thousand books that Larry says haven't sold a single copy -- has Larry charged any of those authors with "fraud"?
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Yeah. Big time. It's one of the biggest frustrations of doing the watchdog thing.James D. Macdonald said:
And didn't Kevin say this supposed cop had a copy of the manuscript and printouts from Mindsight? That seems incredibly unlikely. What did PA do, FedEx that stuff? Makes the whole thing even more fishy, IMO.
Welcome, Kevin--good to see you back online. You are the original hoaxer!
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James D. Macdonald said:
Although it wouldn't be ACTUAL crayon, people can do interesting things with computer fonts...
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