Return of a Man Named PAMB and its Quotes

I don't know if this is just a coincidence, but a couple of days ago I came across a giveaway for a PA book. A link to the e-book was provided, so I clicked on that. Not found. Then today I glanced at the website of a PA veteran, noticed there was a link to the e-book version and clicked on that. Not found.

Maybe it's just those two, but it's something I'd check (and keep checking) if I were a PA author.

Oh, and here's the latest from the PAMB : Why should I publish with PA???

Hello All,
I have been readinig these boards for weeks now. I'm almost finished with the final draft (there have been 4!) of my novel, <title>, and am looking for a publisher. My first book, <title> was published through lulu.com last year. While I am quite happy with lulu, I am looking for a cheaper alternative.

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And you're with PA?

My books cost so much that I cannot afford to order them for book signings and other events.

Can some of you tell me some pros to publishing with PA? I have already found several cons...

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One dollar, lots of special offers and the illusion that you have been published for real.

It's gone.

Stacia Kane said:

It's gone.

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And so is the writer.

That's from his/her website, and it's an excellent explanation of the problems facing PA authors.

Sure they give you an ISBN, but then they publish a raw and largely unedited piece of work, jack up the price of your book to an amount any sane person or non-relation would refuse to pay, make YOU buy your own books, and do not have your books readily available on major websites.

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Would anyone else have a problem if their publisher sent this communication? (bolding mine)

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=32448

It's been one week now, since I received that life changing email. "You're book is finished, and you can now officially call yourself a published author." It's been one crazy week, let me tell you, and already, people are "lining up" to get the link to buy my book. I can't tell you how exciting this is!

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That may have been a mistake by the author when they typed their post on the PAMB. If not, yes, I would definitely have an issue with a publisher who doesn't know the difference between your and you're.

I'm almost finished with the final draft (there have been 4!) of my novel

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To any lurkers: Going through 4 drafts is not cause for an exclamation point.

Editing is crucial, first and second drafts are rarely publishable, and many writers go through several drafts (I've hit the double digits myself, and I almost always lose count before I'm done) before the work is ready to even be seen by an editor.

And if this editor is employed at an actual, commercial publisher, they will have notes that will send you into another round of editing - or two or three. And they'll be good notes, too.

Happiness, expectation, but a few doubts: the PA "published author" experience for this new author as well as others:

I am still in shock over publishing a book. I just found out it was available at Borders & Amazon but couldn't find it on line with Barnes & Noble or Booksamillion. My book cover picture was not included. Don't know why because PA did a beautiful job creating it! I have been sending emails to newspapers asking if they got the press release of my book from PA. Still no answers after several weeks. What's going on? How long to they wait? Looks like they should be knocking my door down or calling or emailing. Maybe I'm too anxious. Afterall not everyone is a published author! Only one local small city's monthly newspaper replied and they did a very nice announcement of my book with a nice blk/wh book cover picture. Too bad no one knows me over there. I sent Miley Cyrus a copy of my book because I want her to do the lead part of my main character when it becomes a movie. You think?

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Oh, ouch. That person is in for such a fall. How sad.

This thread has been moved to the private forums but I didn't close the window after I read it. An author who's been with PA since October 2009 said,

does anybody know how long it generally takes for a book order for someone to get to them? I have had many people tell me they have ordered my book on here and they are wondering why they still haven't got it after 21/2 weeks. One of my friends even ordered back in Febuary and she still hasn't recieved it.

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A suggestion was to call Author Support (assuming she could actually get someone on the line), but the author replied,

Well my friend and I called a few times and they said the issue would be resolved, but it wasn't ,

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What a surprise.

so I felt bad and just gave her one of my own personal copies. I was just hoping this wasn't a regular thing that was going to happen.

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Why shouldn't it happen again? PA knows that a customer might feel reluctant to complain about her friend's publisher, to whom her friend is loyal and grateful. And in any case the friend has solved the problem by giving away a copy. So PA has made money for doing literally nothing.

It's unfair, but it's what you can expect when you sign up with a scam.

Queen of Swords said:

Why shouldn't it happen again? PA knows that a customer might feel reluctant to complain about her friend's publisher, to whom her friend is loyal and grateful. And in any case the friend has solved the problem by giving away a copy. So PA has made money for doing literally nothing.

It's unfair, but it's what you can expect when you sign up with a scam.

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It's cruel of PA I know, but they have to force the author to do what they want him to have done in the first place: buy enough books to supply local requests. PA does not have the staff to fill individual orders.

Queen of Swords said:

Why shouldn't it happen again? PA knows that a customer might feel reluctant to complain about her friend's publisher, to whom her friend is loyal and grateful. And in any case the friend has solved the problem by giving away a copy. So PA has made money for doing literally nothing.

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The friend should have called their credit card company. Unfortunately, in this instance, it sounds like PA got paid twice for one book so the author and his friend fell into PA's "fiends and family plan."

Terie said:

Oh, ouch. That person is in for such a fall. How sad.

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I don't know. She admits she doesn't know much about the internet and lives in a small town. She might be isolated enough to not find out she's been ripped off. If only she'd praised Jesus I'd say she was the perfect PA client.

Afterall not everyone is a published author!

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Unless you send your work in to PA.

Well my friend and I called a few times and they said the issue would be resolved, but it wasn't

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Lame PA Lies:

"We are NOT in any way a POD, vanity press, or subsidy publisher, and has nothing in common with them." (Website)

"we have 30 full-time editors" (Prather)

"we knew about the hoax before it became public knowledge." (Clopper)

"80% of authors who submit manuscripts to the house are rejected." (Prather)

"book prices reflect what the market will bear" (Prather)

"We have nothing to apologize for" (Clopper)

"The issue will be resolved." (Whoever answers the phone that day)

"We'll give your book the chance it deserves!" (Website)

"Those statements are outdated and from disgruntled and failed writers." (Honeymooners trying to reassure themselves spout the company line)

"We're about honesty and integrity." (Clopper)

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It has been my experience in life that a truly honest person never has the need to tell you he/she is honest.

Only liars bother making that declaration.-- Gillhoughly

kullervo said:

I don't know. She admits she doesn't know much about the internet and lives in a small town. She might be isolated enough to not find out she's been ripped off. If only she'd praised Jesus I'd say she was the perfect PA client.

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I was talking more about her incredibly unrealistic expectations and less about the PA aspect. I mean, she sent a copy to Mylie Cyrus because she wants her to play the part *when* the book is made into the film? Even if she were with a commercial publisher, the book being made into a film is highly unlikely, but she doesn't seem to know even that much yet.

Oh, yes, Mylie Cyrus has nothing better to do all day but read all the books people send her in hopes she'll play the MC.

Not only do they not understand how publishing works, but how film production works.

Actors may pick their parts, but they don't read a book, declare "That's a perfect role for me, let's make a movie!" Sorry, dreamers, it doesn't work the way you saw it in that Rooney/Garland movie.

I know you and YOUR book are special, but it will never be THAT special.

Writers who want more than a snowball's chance send stuff to a producer or a production company; don't bother with the actors. Trust me, they hear from hopeful without-a-clues every day.

Producers are already looking at books (or original scripts so they don't have to pay the author a cut of the gross) and those books will be from the Times bestseller list. (It will have a built in audience.)

In ten years not a single PA title has ever gotten near that list.

You think Hollywood would do a movie about some guy chasing after obscure codes and puzzles if Dan Brown's sloppily written pot-boiler had sold only 80 copies instead of 80 million?

Just so you know, 80 copies sold to the general public (not to the writer) through PA is a freaking miracle.

So if you truly want a real shot at the movie deal, stop effing around with the inept amateurs at PA, write another book, and sell it to a REAL publisher.

Even if there's no movie deal, you still get more than a lousy dollar advance.

Poor girl got saddled with a HUGE price tag too.

There really are no words for this.

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?p=326278#326278

PA is doing everything they can to help me afford my books...they've sent me some really great deals. I've just got to get my bills caught up first...after all I have kids and making sure they're taken care of ALWAYS is my first priority. I've attempted to make some websites but then I can never find them again. HA HA. I dont know nothing about this type stuff...if its meant to be it'll be....good luck all!

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Author,

You shouldn't have to AFFORD your own book. Real commercial publishers GIVE you multiple copies for FREE.

I really wish the one guy would learn the difference between your (possessive) and you're (contraction of you are.) He also seems to have trouble differentiating plural and possessive.

M.R.J. Le Blanc said:

Poor girl got saddled with a HUGE price tag too.

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Thirty bucks for a romance? Not if it came with a free guy.

I dont know nothing about this type stuff

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Yup--square in the middle of PA's target market.

With a big bright target on her bank account.

Your kids come first, lady, but PA has no trouble taking the food out of their mouths if you let them.


I got into writing to MAKE money.

Oh, hey, it worked!

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=32449

When the Kool Aid sours:

Your book is still UNAVAILABLE to customers, and Amazon will eventually cancel your buyer's order because Publish America will not make the book available to them. Below are some of the problems I have personally experienced with PA. My book came out in May 2009.
Publish America has turned out to be quite a disappointment.
Worst editing—or none, as promised.
Refusal to terminate contract when authors “see the light.”
Never sending the free books they promise when you buy a certain number.Never promoting authors.
Never sending any books off to Barnes and Noble, or Oprah, or Walmart or anywhere.(these are just scams to get authors to purchase their own books).
Worst of all, though, is NOT making the books available to Amazon. Com, Barnes & Noble etc. People try to order the book, and they’re told that’s it’s out of stock. Amazon has it on their
List, but it’s unavailable to them from PublishAmerica, and after about three weeks, Amazon cancels the customer’s order because PA says it’s not available. That has to be the worst of the offenses because authors spend their own money promoting their books and when they get people to actually order, the book is unavailable. This is unjust. This is criminal, but I guess
ethics was not a part of Publish America’s offer.

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I hope someone points this writer here.

(A couple of others were quick to chime in with the party line of PA did everything they promised me... which is basically nothing.)

One of the uh, chimers, said this:

PA has done everything they promised in my contract. I was also told up front that it is the authors job to promote and market their books and I wouldn't have it any other way. Who knows more about my book then I do. As to sells, well, we are all, at least the majority of us, first time authors and many book stores are not going to spend the time to promote our books, not when they have the giants of the publishing world on their book shelves. Does that mean we just give up? No way. The thing is these famous authors, such as King, Rowling, Clancy and Koontz, to name a few, started out like us, they were once unknown authors and they struggled to get their books and names out there and they succeeded. It was hard, but, they did it. I don't blame the publisher for my failures. If I succeed or fail that's on my head. As a part to a famous poem says, 'I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul.' Never give up, Never surrender.

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But these famous authors weren't published by PA; they had legit commercial publishers with marketing departments, distributors, publicists, etc.

And then there's that "first time author" thing again. Sheesh! Every author was once a first time author!

And a reply in that thread, from a big cheerleader:

As to sells, well, we are all, at least the majority of us, first time authors and many book stores are not going to spend the time to promote our books, not when they have the giants of the publishing world on their book shelves. Does that mean we just give up? No way. The thing is these famous authors, such as King, Rowling, Clancy and Koontz, to name a few, started out like us, they were once unknown authors and they struggled to get their books and names out there and they succeeded. It was hard, but, they did it. I don't blame the publisher for my failures. If I succeed or fail that's on my head.

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1. If bookstores only stocked "the giants of the publishing world," they'd be a lot smaller.

2. Bookstores don't promote authors. They stock books which publishers have A) sent their sales teams around to show them; and B)made attractive to bookstores by making them returnable, offering a standard discount. Not to mention those books are actually reasonably priced, well-written, properly edited, given attractive covers, and don't fall apart when you try to read them.

In other words, bookstores stock books they can sell. They can't sell PA books.

3. Bookstores stock plenty of first-time authors. It happens all the time. Not only did they stock PERSONAL DEMONS, for example, but B&N featured it as one of their Paranormal/UF book club selections a couple of months later. Why? Because of everything I said above.

4. Sigh. Yes. King, Rowling, Clancy and Koontz were once first-time authors. But dammit, they did NOT struggle to get their books in stores!! Their publishers did that!

It wasn't hard. You know why? Because they sold their books to real publishers, and they sold their books to real publishers because they'd studied and learned their craft, and real publishers read the results of that work and study and thought "People will enjoy this book."

Those real publishers then PAID them for their work--more than a dollar!--and did everything they could to get those books on the shelves in stores, and sent pre-release copies to professional review venues.

King, Rowling, Clancy and Koontz did NOT make lollipop trees or hand out note cards with their book information on them on street corners or make bumper stickers or put information about their book in the envelope when they paid bills or rent booths at craft fairs.

They did NOT buy their own books to sell on consignment at local bookstores. In fact, they didn't buy copies of their own books for any reason, because they didn't have to.

I am so tired of those names being brought up constantly as if they got where they are now because they had a really clever spam email campaign.

THEY HAD REAL PUBLISHERS. PA IS NOT ONE.

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Yeah but I bet even if you were to tell him that, it wouldn't make a lick of difference. I notice he's one of the big PA loyalists. He does have a point, but it's only applicable so much. If my publisher called itself 'traditional' and insinuated that it operated like Random House and other legit houses, and didn't perform like one, you darn well better believe I would blame my publisher.

Gotta love the booster who supports the party line:

The thing is these famous authors, such as King, Rowling, Clancy and Koontz, to name a few, started out like us, they were once unknown authors and they struggled to get their books and names out there and they succeeded.

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King's breakout book, Carrie, was published with Doubleday. They gave him a 2,500.00 advance for the HC rights--which is 2,499.00 more than PA offers. He split the paperback rights of 400,000.00 with them.

Rowling had a literary agent who sold the first Potter book to Bloomsbury for a £1500 advance, then Scholastic, Inc. for $105,000.00. So far as can be determined none of the dozen publishers who rejected the book were Publish America. Not that they reject anything.

Dean Koontz sold his first novel to Ace Science Fiction. He likely got about four figures for it. Still puts him ahead of PA's "advance."

Clancy sold his first book to the U.S. Naval Institute Press--their first fiction. His second sold to Putnam.

Notice the theme here?

Their books succeeded because they went to real publishing houses and who paid real money for their work.

After signing the contract they were not told by those publishers to "promote-promote-promote" but to "write-write-write."

Please, PA, list every single one of your writers who even made it as far as the NYT extended bestseller list. That would be the top 100 books selling in the US in any given week in the last ten years.

Not one? Forty-thousand titles in your stable and not even ONE?


Yes, we all have to start somewhere.

Just not at Publish America.

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Dang, this is just sad. The booster's book has been out since 2006. No reviews. Doesn't even have a sales ranking.

It's priced up there with other PA titles: 29.95 for a 400-page opus. Used copies are more reasonable. It is to be noted there is a 1-3 week wait before any new copy ships through Amazon. While that is not the same as being "out of stock" no one's going to be too inclined to buy it when they can get speedier shipping with an indie reseller.

I feel sorry for the guy. I really do.