Tiger Woods Press Conference

Silver King said:

But it should be relevant. No sport should transcend any athlete, nor should any athlete transcend any sport. And golf shouldn't be any different.

I mean really: Should Tiger get a pass for being the utmost scumbag just because he's a great golfer? Think about it: He's based his entire professional and personal persona on being better than just about every other human being on the planet. And it turns out that he's no better than a piece of shit on the fairway.

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No, it turns out he is better. At golf. Which is what got him paid in the first place. The rest should be irrelevant. If people have put him on a pedestal because he's good at his sport and buy products he pushes because they thought he was some great guy, that's their bad. If he capitalized off of that, well that's just good gotdamn capitalism.

Poet's comment can easily be flipped in the other direction. If he disgusts you so much don't pay attention to him, he's just a sodding golfer. His life and doings are largely irrelevant aside from entertaining the masses through the prowess at his particular game. That's it. Similar to the "Don't want to read about it? Then don't." statement. Why anyone wants to go out of their way to personally despise a guy who you'll never meet and has such impact on your life is beyond me. He committed no crime. He wasn't smacking her around. He's a schmuck. So are lots of people. If it's really that bad, why even bother with listening to his apology? If you're so disgusted with him already that nothing he can say would appease you, why pay any attention to him at all anymore? Don't watch him play. Don't listen to his excuses. Don't buy his products. This maelstrom of rage is laughably overblown. I regularly ignore annoying people who work ten feet away from me, surely the disgusted public can largely ignore an athlete they'll never be in arm's reach of. Why the public flogging unless you derive something from it?

I understand why certain sponsors dropped him from a business standpoint. The rest is schadenfreude and tabloid nonsense.

Again, if I was Tiger I would have basically said bugger all to the public and went back to playing my game. Fans would either love him again or have nothing to do with him, but if he went back to playing and winning he'd ultimately be fine, and then he could work through the rest privately. It'd easier to resolve that way anyway...

I don't give a damn what he does OFF the course - I wouldn't pay for that.
But, watching what he does ON the course is awesome and worth paying for.
He probably hasn't done anything that a lot of other high- paid athletes and other celebrities have. So what? It's not anything I'd do but he's not me and I'm not him.

Oh,good crap. It's what he does ON the golf course that is of concern. What he does off it is no one's concern. All this Puritanical outrage and making him into a Hester Prynne is seriously ridiculous.

Others are behaving just like he is,probably worse. They just didn't get caught. Tiger Woods never claimed to be a role model.

Kitty27 said:

O
Others are behaving just like he is,probably worse. They just didn't get caught. Tiger Woods never claimed to be a role model.

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The problem is with his sponsers. He gets the really big bucks (overshadows his golf winnings) because of those contracts.

scarletpeaches said:

No one's disputing that.

Why he has to apologise publicly to everyone else I don't know. Infidelity is nothing to do with us. It wasn't you he cheated on.

Quite frankly I don't give a shit what he does with his dick, only his golf clubs. To me, he's a golfer, not a husband.

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Elaine Margarett said:

My take on this is it's an effort to appease and keep his remaining sponsers. Money talks.

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Money and his future golf career surely has something to do with it, but Tiger Woods has spent the last month or more undergoing "treatment" for his "disease," as I posted earlier. He's surely heard the 12 steps recited every day, and likely has them memorized by now. Check out my last post for a link to the treatment center website where it says it's twelve-step based and treatment includes "Big Book" and step study, and this news story putting Tiger Woods there.

I've been involved and seen firsthand the results of 12-step involvement, which can lead to "amends" actions so bizarre that they occasionally make the news.

Elaine Margarett said:

The problem is with his sponsers. He gets the really big bucks (overshadows his golf winnings) because of those contracts.

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Yeah, as a "lifestyle" brand he pretty much screwed himself (no puns or double-entrendres intended, no matter how it may seem), and that to me sort of makes sense. If I were Buick or Accenture I'd have dropped him once his "indiscretions" went from being mistakes to a sort of living farce. I never thought of his image as that of a "family man" like a lot of pundits are saying, but as a successful guy in control of himself and his doings. A guy who'd be too smart to let his warts get this exposed. So the "lifestyle" sponsors had to bail out because he no longer fits that image.

But I think Nike and Gatorade and EA Sports, companies who ultimately sell based on "buy our product and you can play golf like Tiger Woods, or at least pretend to play golf like him," they never really had anything to lose, I think. His past injuries show that there's a significant wane in casual fan interest when he's not on the course. If you still want the golf crowd for the casual player / fan you're just not going to move product with someone else the way you can with Tiger. I'm not giving a second look at a Phil Mickelson Golf video game.

Jcomp said:

Poet's comment can easily be flipped in the other direction. If he disgusts you so much don't pay attention to him, he's just a sodding golfer. His life and doings are largely irrelevant aside from entertaining the masses through the prowess at his particular game. That's it. Similar to the "Don't want to read about it? Then don't." statement.

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Exactly - and I think I made that clear in my subsequent post: "If it doesn't bother you, fine. If it does bother you, also fine."

I can't stand watching golf, and I don't generally buy products because of endorsements. So I am not in his target audience for the apology.

poetinahat said:

Exactly - and I think I made that clear in my subsequent post: "If it doesn't bother you, fine. If it does bother you, also fine."

I can't stand watching golf, and I don't generally buy products because of endorsements. So I am not in his target audience for the apology.

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Gotcha, but I suppose my point isn't along the lines of whether or not he deserves to be protected from public scrutiny, which you referenced in said subsequent post, but why the public even cares about scrutinizing him or any other celebrity ad nauseum. To the point that if you don't care about it, it's pretty tough to escape it, because random people at work walk by your desk and ask you about Tiger. The gotdamn waiter at the restaurant asks if you've heard Tiger's apology. It's not as easy to not read about Tiger as you make it sound, because the masses get to gossiping like church women at a brunch talking about whoever just left the table to go to the restroom. And by no means is it a big deal, I'm not losing sleep over it one way or another, but I see and hear a lot of people getting worked up over it and it strikes me as ridiculous.

I feel the same way about every damn reality show, J, and the Idol shows besides. It's like secondhand smoke; you can't avoid the stink entirely, and you can only hold your breath for so long. (And sometimes it might give you a little guilt-free buzz if you're so inclined... I've been there too.)

But that's the world we live in, and to be candid, the indignation about the indignation is just as irritating to me; it's like shushing in a theatre. What the public pays attention to, as gauged by the amount of media space it gets, can't be helped, and certainly shouldn't be censored. I don't want to ever see another word about Survivor, Paris Hilton, John Mayer, Rush Limbaugh, or Madonna. But articles on Tiger's confession aren't shown to cause cancer, so it would be wrong to legislate against them yet.

Kitty27 said:

Others are behaving just like he is,probably worse. They just didn't get caught. Tiger Woods never claimed to be a role model.

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And this point right here carries absolutely no currency whatsoever. "Other folks do it" is not a valid defense - does that make him innocent? - and it's pejorative in the bargain. "Probably worse" is even weaker. He's far and away the best player in the game; there's little doubt he's the wealthiest and most influential; and he's arguably one of the most handsome. So, his magnetism would be through the roof, and he's already admitted to a healthy dose of hubris. By what reasoning would one assert that other married players are probably behaving more egregiously?

Intentionally or not, Tiger has traded heavily on being a man to look up to. One can argue that he never claimed to be a role model, and fair enough; on that point, I agree with Charles Barkley* - that's not the athlete's responsibility as an athlete. But as an endorser, it may very well be - and that's a contract between the athlete and the sponsor, not with the public conscience. So, yeah, that's nothing directly to do with the public.

But: If role-model status is not part of his endorsement value, why did several of his sponsors drop him? Not because of moral outrage; because they believed he no longer had the same selling power for them. He's still just as amazingly good at golf as ever. What changed?

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*: "I'm not a role model... Just because I dunk a basketball doesn't mean I should raise your kids."

... what confuses me, some, is how much the general public is into this stuff. They can't seem to get enough and are drooling all over themselves each day to get more 'news' on the issue. Papers and television wouldn't be full of the stuff if that weren't the case. So what gives? Why the interest? I honestly am at a loss to understand it. Maybe I am the one who is odd?

poetinahat said:

Intentionally or not, Tiger has traded heavily on being a man to look up to. One can argue that he never claimed to be a role model, and fair enough; on that point, I agree with Charles Barkley* - that's not the athlete's responsibility as an athlete. But as an endorser, it may very well be - and that's a contract between the athlete and the sponsor, not with the public conscience. So, yeah, that's nothing directly to do with the public.

But: If role-model status is not part of his endorsement value, why did several of his sponsors drop him? Not because of moral outrage; because they believed he no longer had the same selling power for them. He's still just as amazingly good at golf as ever. What changed?

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*: "I'm not a role model... Just because I dunk a basketball doesn't mean I should raise your kids."

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And Charles has been known to have a girlfriend or two or six. But that is between him and his wife. And no one here in Phoenix (where his wife lives and he lives sometimes) pays any attention. It just ain't any of our business.

MM

poetinahat said:

I feel the same way about every damn reality show, J, and the Idol shows besides. It's like secondhand smoke; you can't avoid the stink entirely, and you can only hold your breath for so long. (And sometimes it might give you a little guilt-free buzz if you're so inclined... I've been there too.)

But that's the world we live in, and to be candid, the indignation about the indignation is just as irritating to me; it's like shushing in a theatre. What the public pays attention to, as gauged by the amount of media space it gets, can't be helped, and certainly shouldn't be censored. I don't want to ever see another word about Survivor, Paris Hilton, John Mayer, Rush Limbaugh, or Madonna. But articles on Tiger's confession aren't shown to cause cancer, so it would be wrong to legislate against them yet.


And this point right here carries absolutely no currency whatsoever. "Other folks do it" is not a valid defense - does that make him innocent? - and it's pejorative in the bargain. "Probably worse" is even weaker.

Intentionally or not, Tiger has traded heavily on being a man to look up to. One can argue that he never claimed to be a role model, and fair enough; on that point, I agree with Charles Barkley* - that's not the athlete's responsibility as an athlete. But as an endorser, it may very well be - and that's a contract between the athlete and the sponsor, not with the public conscience. So, yeah, that's nothing directly to do with the public.

But: If role-model status is not part of his endorsement value, why did several of his sponsors drop him? Not because of moral outrage; because they believed he no longer had the same selling power for them. He's still just as amazingly good at golf as ever. What changed?

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*: "I'm not a role model... Just because I dunk a basketball doesn't mean I should raise your kids."

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Who's asking for legislation? If the indignation and indignation about the indignation is bugging you, why even show up in the thread? What is the annoyance level of indignation at indignation of the indignation? How many levels of indignation until it gets too meta to even be sensible? And sometimes guess what, shushing in a theater is hella necessary and effective, and a lot less annoying than actually listening to someone speak through the whole damn flick.

The media is what it is. It sucks, but because the public allows it to. People keep eating the junk, and they can keep making money off of it, that's business--why wouldn't they keep doing it? If fewer people were so magnetized by Tiger's little saga, deriving some sense of something from watching this guy's soap opera play out, the media wouldn't pay so much attention to it. But people want it, and I wonder why. I've heard so many people say that he's just a liar and a cheat and nothing he can say will change that, and it leaves me to wonder why the hell are you still listening to him speak then?

In other words...

... what confuses me, some, is how much the general public is into this stuff. They can't seem to get enough and are drooling all over themselves each day to get more 'news' on the issue. Papers and television wouldn't be full of the stuff if that weren't the case. So what gives? Why the interest? I honestly am at a loss to understand it. Maybe I am the one who is odd?

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What Ken said. Maybe we just have different philosophies poet, but when a motherfucker is subjecting me to second hand smoke I don't just hold my breath, I tell him to put that shit out and take his funk elsewhere.

Then I gripe about it online, like any good slacktivist...

Does anyone here actually believe that the most famous athlete in the world, when discovered to lead a sordid double life, that such knowledge wouldn't be of public interest? And it should be ignored because it's a "private" matter? Seriously?

Come on. Everyone knows that when you sign on for fame, there will be a certain amount of, sometimes overwhelming, public scrutiny. That's the way it goes, and you can't have it both ways unless you elect to be a recluse instead of a media/sports celebrity.

As I mentioned earlier, I don't care how many women Tiger has been involved with (and I'd venture to guess that it's far more than we'll ever know). But what gets my goat is that it would be suggested he be given a pass because of his status as an athlete. As long as he's not screwing some skanky ex-porn star or prostitute on the putting green before a live audience, so what, right?

Wrong. He'll never live this down, as well he shouldn't. And for him to suggest that the media stop pursuing his wife and children is laughable. He has only himself to blame for that maelstrom.

Jcomp said:

Who's asking for legislation?

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Not you, and I didn't mean to suggest that. It was a rhetorical device, that's all.

Jcomp said:

If the indignation and indignation about the indignation is bugging you, why even show up in the thread?

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It's a discussion. It's my right. What's the problem with that? If your main gripe is that people are making a thing out of it, what are you doing here?

Jcomp said:

The media is what it is. It sucks, but because the public allows it to. People keep eating the junk, and they can keep making money off of it, that's business--why wouldn't they keep doing it? If fewer people were so magnetized by Tiger's little saga, deriving some sense of something from watching this guy's soap opera play out, the media wouldn't pay so much attention to it. But people want it, and I wonder why. I've heard so many people say that he's just a liar and a cheat and nothing he can say will change that, and it leaves me to wonder why the hell are you still listening to him speak then?

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Dude, I basically agree with you. [eta: removed last point, as I see now the last clause isn't directed at me.]

I've always admired the objectivity and even-handedness in your posts (eta: and your clarity of expression). Still do. My esteem for my own reading comprehension skills has diminished now.

Jcomp said:

What Ken said. Maybe we just have different philosophies poet, but when a motherfucker is subjecting me to second hand smoke I don't just hold my breath, I tell him to put that shit out and take his funk elsewhere.

Then I gripe about it online, like any good slacktivist...

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Hey, if it's not a nonsmoking area, and it's not my home, I don't get to tell a smoker to butt out. Society's a give-and-take. [edited out ill-conceived codicil]

As for Tiger being a "role model" and how sponsors bailed, I already laid out my theory on that. He was more of a "role model" to men who pictured him as living a pinnacle lifestyle. You didn't see Tiger pushing children's products. Gillette. Buick. Tag Heuer. Grown man stuff. His image as it pertains to children don't matter to those sponsors. It changed because grown men viewed his cheating as buffoonery. It went from "oops, he has a mistress, no big," to a Keystone Cops display of silliness. His image was control and sophistication. His sponsors stood by him when it seemed to be one woman. Even at two or three they probably would have let him slide, just kept him low key for a while. But then it just got too ridiculous. He couldn't sell the controlled, authority figure anymore. He went from Sean Connery as James Bond to the nerdy kid from American Pie in a matter of weeks. If I was one of those sponsors I would have dropped him to. But not for any "role model" moralizing...

For the record, in my post above, I originally misinterpreted some of Jcomp's points. I've gone back and edited my response.

Why are smokers always treated like lepers around here?

Now we're motherfuckers?

He sells housing developments in ads in some places. Those are very 'family man' styled. I saw one early in the scandal and it looked like an SNL skit Think of your children, eh Tiger?

I wouldn't have had the balls to do some of the endorsements he did while doing what he was doing. I think it's the arrogance of that that gets me.

That said, I don't see how an adult gets in front of a microphone and has a press conference about his sex life. It's bizarre how we demand that. I don't even like it in court half the time. Sex is your own business. But don't pretend you didn't know folks would be like that at that level of fame, either. He had time to consider all of this. So did his wife.

... would have to agree with Jcomp. He never put himself across as a moral role model. If he had, like numerous conservative politicians, he would certainly have been duping the public and I could understand some of the frenzy. But he wasn't. He was just a golfer. So his personal affairs should remain so and my views about what he's done and your own are neither here nor there as it simply isn't our business. At least that's how I see it.

backslashbaby said:

He sells housing developments in ads in some places. Those are very 'family man' styled.

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... wasn't aware of that. Puts things in a bit of a different light. Still not enough to warrant the frenzy. But there is this to consider. (Bear in mind that I watch about 1/2hr of tv a month.)

All advertising is based on image, and he sells things based on his image, so he left himself open to it. Right or wrong, when someone who sells you on their image turns out to be a cheater, people will react.

As far as being a role model, he could have gotten AIDS and gave it to his wife. A cat is a better role model.

Ah! It might be a North Carolina thing.

http://www.golfcommunityreviews.com...scandal-a-case-of-indigestion-for-cliffs.html

“With a wife and two kids,” Woods says in the video, “your perspective in life changes. I want to have my kids experience something like this…because your priorities start changing and evolving once you have a family and I want to come up here as often as I possibly can.”

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I didn't look up how the project is doing. But it's interesting to show how business relationships have ripple effects:

Tiger’s mortal failings must be at least as big a burden for Anthony as the financial hit he faces. The developer has a reputation in the western Carolinas for high moral principles. Look no farther than The Cliffs at Glassy to understand that he puts his faith where his money is. At Glassy, he commissioned the building of a chapel on a perfect piece of property at the highest point in the community, with a commanding 50-mile view of mountains and valley, perhaps the best mountain views in the entire state. Anthony probably could have sold the lot for $3 million or more. That is how good the view is and, one assumes, how strong the developer’s religious convictions are.

With the construction of the chapel, Anthony chose between his religious and moral convictions and his commercial interests. He faces a similar choice in deciding what to do about Tiger’s relationship with High Carolina....

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Its cool

Wayne K said:

Why are smokers always treated like lepers around here?

Now we're motherfuckers?

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If it makes you feel better, to me everyone's a motherfucker. If I typed on AW how I spoke in real life the mf-bomb would be more prevalent than the word "write."

I'm sorry if I overreacted J. Its been a tough time since they doubled the taxes and told me they were going to make me quit by making it expensive. I was going to quit until they said that. I'd rather die of cancer than be forced into it.

When I was new here I saw someone post that smokers should be left to die in front of emergency rooms, and a thread was started about how we stink, and we're filthy. I went in and said "Hey, lets do fat people next. Or alcoholics" A moderator deleted my post and left theirs. I felt like an outcast, and it became clear to me that it wasn't about smoke. It was about smokers.

If I didn't like you, it wouldn't have bothered me to tell you the truth.

So, have we decided who's going to cast the first stone yet?