*SPOILER* Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows *SPOILER*

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The book, like HP4-6 was too long. I felt it dragged in so many places, for instance when Harry, Ron and Hermione were wandering. So many chapters could have been cut without losing any of the story. For the last 150 pages or so I was thinking, "Oh when is this going to end?"

I'm not entirely sure it was worth the hype. Entertaining, yes, but wonderful, stunning, beautiful literature? No.
 

jodiodi

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It's funny you say that, Katie. You know that Snape has always been my favorite, too. When I got this book, I was telling myself over and over that Snape was going to die, probably at the hand of Harry. But the deeper the book went, the more my thoughts changed. I was leaning more toward Snape coming through it all, possibly facing Voldemort at the end, possibly dying to protect Harry as Lily did, maybe living. When he died, it came out of nowhere to me. I was angry, especially when I learned that he died for no reason at all, except for a mistake in understanding on Voldemort's part. And it was so quick. I got the impression that, aside from Dobby, none of the deaths were contemplated afterward by the rest of the characters.

Oh well, Snape was and still remains my favorite character, the true hero of the entire series.


Must agree with this characterization of Snape. I've always adored the character. Even when I stopped reading the books all the way through and started skimming, Snape was the character (along with Lucius Malfoy) that held my interest the most. He is a complex and well-written character.

Plus, I'm glad my opinion of him was vindicated.
 

katiemac

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It's funny you say that, Katie. You know that Snape has always been my favorite, too. When I got this book, I was telling myself over and over that Snape was going to die, probably at the hand of Harry. But the deeper the book went, the more my thoughts changed. I was leaning more toward Snape coming through it all, possibly facing Voldemort at the end, possibly dying to protect Harry as Lily did, maybe living. When he died, it came out of nowhere to me. I was angry, especially when I learned that he died for no reason at all, except for a mistake in understanding on Voldemort's part. And it was so quick. I got the impression that, aside from Dobby, none of the deaths were contemplated afterward by the rest of the characters.

Oh well, Snape was and still remains my favorite character, the true hero of the entire series.

I must've been expecting his death to match that of how I felt when Dumbledore died -- not because Dumbledore was killed, but it really hurt that Dumbledore would've asked Snape to commit murder. I was near horrified, then had to put the book down.

But then... Snape just sort of died. And it's too bad Harry witnessed the whole thing before knowing what Snape was, otherwise he could have actually stopped it. Unlike the other deaths (aside from Dobby), which happened when he was elsewhere.
 

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Snape was always one of my favorite characters in the series. I love his sardonic wit, especially in the opening chapter of HBP. There were a few instances where he spouted off some rather whiny dialogue (such as Sirius's confrontation & escape in PoA and the escape from Hogwarts in HBP) but for the most part I found his "anti-charisma" quite likable.

There was a short paragraph in OotP that hinted at his troubled relationship between & with his parents, but it wasn't until the end of this book that we get the clearest picture of how he became the bitter, misunderstood character that he's always been.

While reading reviews at Amazon while bored on Monday, I came across one that wasn't a review at all, but rather a theory explaining how Snape is actually Voldemort's son. I don't buy it at all, but somebody is bound to write a Snape fanfic about his childhood.

But why hasn't Neville been glorified enough in this topic? In the last few books he's made a wonderful transition from a clumsy insecure boy to a brave, determined teenager as the world around him got worse & worse. He almost suffered most horrible death in the series.

Something bugs me though; was he aware that a Gryffindor could pull the sword out of the hat? Some people are probably already screaming "PLOT HOLE!!!" (The instance in this topic was different). I'd like to say that he learned about it in OotP, but this series is just so rich in details it's amazing that Rowling is able to keep continuity of it all. Of course, the overwhelming amount of details also makes it trickier to find holes in the plots.
 

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I wished Voldemort's end could have been a little more ridden with bloodshed and violence. 7 books past, and he ends after a discussion and a disarming spell.

Harry Potter has been the only thing that's been able to make me cry for about 5 years now, and boy did this one ever! She killed off SO many people (Fred and Lupin were a few of my favorites. I was reading this part on the bus to work and burst out into tears. Everyone on the bus thought I was mental), and I have to say that I am still very shocked at this book. I can't believe she killed off so MANY awesome characters!

There were a few plotholes, and she could have spent more time trying to pack a punch behind the fighting and death scenes, but the book had so much going on that I say it's a forgivable offense. I could abrely keep up with everything going on and how it connected together, and I applaud Rowling for being able to come up with all of it! Even with the most detailed outline, it still would have been hard to wrap up plots from all the other books AND the complex plots from this one and tie into into a decently neat knot at the end.

All in all, it was a pretty satisfying read, and I'm sad that no more Harry Potters will be coming out (what's the point of living now?). I wish she could have included more about his future, perhaps what careers he and the others had, more of what happened after Voldemort's death, the relationships, etc. Still, I finished it with a smile on my face.
 
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katiemac

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Something bugs me though; was he aware that a Gryffindor could pull the sword out of the hat? Some people are probably already screaming "PLOT HOLE!!!" (The instance in this topic was different). I'd like to say that he learned about it in OotP, but this series is just so rich in details it's amazing that Rowling is able to keep continuity of it all. Of course, the overwhelming amount of details also makes it trickier to find holes in the plots.

I remember a reference in Order of the Phoenix (when they're discussing the DA), that the Sorting Hat told at least one student when in Dumbledore's office that Harry killed the basilisk with the sword. Neville would have been there, but I don't remember if the student said Harry pulled the sword out of the hat or not.

But no, I don't see it as a plot hole at all. When Harry did it, he wasn't aware the hat could do such a thing, so Neville could have easily done the same. Both the Sorting Hat and the sword used to belong to Gryffindor, so they've been linked for awhile.
 

katiemac

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I wish she could have included more about his future, perhaps what job he and the others had, what happened after Voldemort's death, the relationships, etc. Still, I finished it with a smile on my face.

From what I've read of post-Potter interviews, JKR does know this information (mentioned something about Harry "guest-lecturing" DADA, McGonagall as Headmaster). A couple years from now she might write an "encyclopedia," as she described it, that explains the backstories of some characters (i.e., Dean) and some future tidbits, too.
 

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From what I've read of post-Potter interviews, JKR does know this information (mentioned something about Harry "guest-lecturing" DADA, McGonagall as Headmaster). A couple years from now she might write an "encyclopedia," as she described it, that explains the backstories of some characters (i.e., Dean) and some future tidbits, too.
The one thing I both like and detest about the Harry Potter series are the side books. It's becoming its own genre. In a way, it's amazing to see this entire culture form in just a few years, and it's so cool to be able to jump into the middle of it and have a ball. On the other hand, it's a little ridiculous. A story, no matter how much of a trend or a good read it is, should stay within the book, me thinks. That story should be held sacred between the novel's bindings, and there it should remain. It shouldn't splatter all over the other genres and into other books (even if it is in an effort to explain it all).


However....

I will probably buy that encyclopedia....

And you can all call me a hypocrite because you know I'll be up in my room, with a box of Bertie Bott's Every Flavor Beans reading it in the same giddy manner that I read the HP series in.


*sigh*
 

katiemac

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The one thing I both like and detest about the Harry Potter series are the side books. It's becoming its own genre. In a way, it's amazing to see this entire culture form in just a few years, and it's so cool to be able to jump into the middle of it and have a ball. On the other hand, it's a little ridiculous. A story, no matter how much of a trend or a good read, should stay within the story, me thinks. That story should be held sacred between the novel's bindings, and there it should remain. It should splatter all over the other genres and into other books (even if it is in an effort to explain it all).


However....

I will probably buy then encyclopedia....

And you can all call me a hypocrite because you know I'll be up in my room, with a box of Bertie Bott's Every Flavor Beans reading it in the same giddy manner that I read the HP series in.

I get what you're saying completely. I thought her previous encyclopedia books (although I've not read them) were clever, since they were purely for charity. I believe that is to be her plan for this one, too, so I respect the decision to write it.

I've read pieces on her website where she's shared some of this extra material, and from a writing perspective I think it's incredible how much she knows about her characters, yet admitted the character's arc is as important as someone else's. (Sacrificed Dean's story, for example, for Neville's.)

The fact that these books have reached the popularity where publishers/readers are actually willing to buy her notes is so unprecedented. And yeah, I'd probably be one of them. :)
 

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I get what you're saying completely. I thought her previous encyclopedia books (although I've not read them) were clever, since they were purely for charity. I believe that is to be her plan for this one, too, so I respect the decision to write it.

I've read pieces on her website where she's shared some of this extra material, and from a writing perspective I think it's incredible how much she knows about her characters, yet admitted the character's arc is as important as someone else's. (Sacrificed Dean's story, for example, for Neville's.)

The fact that these books have reached the popularity where publishers/readers are actually willing to buy her notes is so unprecedented. And yeah, I'd probably be one of them. :)
I didn't get my "screw the sidebooks! *scuttles off to get one*" attitude until they began producing more....and more....and more....

At first, it was an awesome little thing that helped seperate HP away from other books, and really helped to give it its own little spin. But now, I honestly think she could have incorporated WAY more into the story, instead of setting it aside for another book to be written about the original books.

As for her purpose of writing them, I have no problem with it. I can understand and respect her reason, but I still think that the books would have made an even greater impact and would have been so much better if she had packed some of that essential extra stuff into the actual series.


Brb. I'm going to look on Amazon right quick.... (Not that I'm going to get one of those side books or anything) :D
 

katiemac

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As for her purpose of writing them, I have no problem with it. I can understand and respect her reason, but I still think that the books would have made an even greater impact and would have been so much better if she had packed some of that essential extra stuff into the actual series.

I agree on that, too. But the only time I've ever craved something extra was with the last book -- I did have the desire to know "just a little more" following Voldemort's death and before the epilogue. That's the information I felt missing.

As for leaving out the other stuff, I can understand from a writer's perspective that she would know what belongs where and what's pushing it. Back to the Dean thing (which was hinted at in this last one -- Dean's father was a wizard, but he didn't know -- killed by Death Eaters), she said it was unnecessary to the overall plot to include, whereas Neville's backstory was rather heavily plot-based. So I commend her for leaving that stuff out -- it could have felt like extraneous information if it wasn't directly plot-related.

And as long as she knows, heck, I'd like to know -- as long it's truly genuine information, and she's not making up extra details for the sake of writing another book. Plus, her sidebooks have got to be a lot more interesting than any sidebooks I could write. "Yes, well.. Susie has blue eyes, but I never mentioned it..."
 

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Don't forget that most of the side books weren't written by her. The only ones she's ever produced were two very slim volumes about Fantastic Creatures and Quidditch (I own them both :) ). All the other books out there were written by fans and/or academics. I don't mind an encyclopedia at all written by her. Just as I love the special features on DVDs (especially the LOTR and King Kong ones, Peter Jackson just totally gets how to make them), I imagine seeing more into the universe would be really cool. As long as she keeps that great sense of humour of hers, I'll be in line!
 

katiemac

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The only ones she's ever produced were two very slim volumes about Fantastic Creatures and Quidditch (I own them both :) ).

These are the only two I know about, so the ones I was referring to. ;)
 

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I agree on that, too. But the only time I've ever craved something extra was with the last book -- I did have the desire to know "just a little more" following Voldemort's death and before the epilogue. That's the information I felt missing.

As for leaving out the other stuff, I can understand from a writer's perspective that she would know what belongs where and what's pushing it. Back to the Dean thing (which was hinted at in this last one -- Dean's father was a wizard, but he didn't know -- killed by Death Eaters), she said it was unnecessary to the overall plot to include, whereas Neville's backstory was rather heavily plot-based. So I commend her for leaving that stuff out -- it could have felt like extraneous information if it wasn't directly plot-related.

And as long as she knows, heck, I'd like to know -- as long it's truly genuine information, and she's not making up extra details for the sake of writing another book. Plus, her sidebooks have got to be a lot more interesting than any sidebooks I could write. "Yes, well.. Susie has blue eyes, but I never mentioned it..."
I can understand leaving out info for the sake of sticking to the plot, but there were a few places- especially in the seventh book, despite it's awesome read- that more information could have been added and it would have not only followed, but more fully completed, the story line.

Plus, I've morphed into one of those terrible Harry-Hungry creatures. I wouldn't have complained at all if she threw in a bunch of stuff that wasn't needed (not too much, of course. The writer in me, while usually suppressed by awe while reading HP books, would have come out and bitched about it). I say this mostly in reference to the relationships. While I liked the last chapter, Nineteen Years Later, I felt she could have packed SO much more power behind it if she had included more about the relationships. As I was reading it, it didn't truly feel like an ending, and I didn't get that same exhilirating "punch" that I got from the endings of the other books. For it being the final book, I feel she could have done much more in the way of making it feel more significant.
 

katiemac

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Plus, I've morphed into one of those terrible Harry-Hungry creatures.

Haha. I reread Sorcerer's Stone today, to get myself reacquainted before I read Deathly Hallows again, and I still caught something new. (Hints that dragons guarding Gringotts, holy cow, we saw that for ourselves in DH!)

Which is partially why I feel so spoiled about wanting more information; now I expect EVERY tiny reference to come full circle.
 

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Haha. I reread Sorcerer's Stone today, to get myself reacquainted before I read Deathly Hallows again, and I still caught something new. (Hints that dragons guarding Gringotts, holy cow, we saw that for ourselves in DH!)

Which is partially why I feel so spoiled about wanting more information; now I expect EVERY tiny reference to come full circle.
That's why all the side books are so popular, I think- because Rowling's a master of hinting for future stuff and winding plots throughout the whole thing. It makes the reader hang on to every detail and want to figure out the puzzle before she even gets to writing it (yet, somehow, she stull manages to surprise you).
 

katiemac

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No arguments there. I know that's how I got hooked.
 

Tanatra

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Here we are... read this article. Harry, Ron, Hermione, Neville, Luna... etc.

Thanks for the link, but I have a feeling that it'll leave most (myself included) hungry for more.:tongue It makes me wonder how well the Potter Encyclopedia will sell.

Her rational for such a vague epilogue makes perfect sense; her stories have so many distinctive characters that if she included everything that she wished to include, it would have been difficult preventing the epilogue from being too long & convoluted and dominating the ending rather than complimenting it.

This is a bit of a tangent, but concerning plot holes, an obvious possibility of one in this book is how Ron "parselmouthed" his way into the Chamber of Secrets upon returning to Hogwarts. Sure, it took him a few tries, but parsel tongue has been emphasized repeatedly throughout the series as being an amazingly rare gift.

In speculating about this, the best explanation I can think of is that Slytherin's locket had some kind of influence on Ron. He did come very close to being possessed by that fragment of Voldemort's soul, after all.

One last thing; has anyone else noticed (I'm sure most have) how throughout the entire series Ron, Harry & Hermione possess recollection capabilities that could incur the jealousy of elephants? During many critical situations in this series (such as Ron being poisoned in HBP or tracking down the Ravenclaw diadem and Sytherin locket in this book) one of the characters suddenly recalls some minor detail from their past that inevitably resolves the ordeal. Those aren't the best examples, but they are the only ones I can think of at this time.

*Sighs* I'll just concede to suspension of disbelief on this one. Doing so has saved me on many occasions from wasting loads of time over-analyzing books and films.
 
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This is a bit of a tangent, but concerning plot holes, an obvious possibility of one in this book is how Ron "parselmouthed" his way into the Chamber of Secrets upon returning to Hogwarts. Sure, it took him a few tries, but parsel tongue has been emphasized repeatedly throughout the series as being an amazingly rare gift.

In speculating about this, the best explanation I can think of is that Slytherin's locket had some kind of influence on Ron. He did come very close to being possessed by that fragment of Voldemort's soul, after all.
Ooh, interesting theory.

One last thing; has anyone else noticed (I'm sure most have) how throughout the entire series Ron, Harry & Hermione possess recollection capabilities that could incur the jealousy of elephants? During many critical situations in this series (such as Ron being poisoned in HBP or tracking down the Ravenclaw diadem and Sytherin locket in this book) one of the characters suddenly recalls some minor detail from their past that inevitably resolves the ordeal. Those aren't the best examples, but they are the only ones I can think of at this time.

*Sighs* I'll just concede to suspension of disbelief on this one. Doing so has saved me on many occasions from wasting loads of time over-analyzing books and films.
Well, ability to remember minor plot-specific details is a normal thing for fiction, I've found. And keeping in mind how many people thought of the locket at Grimmauld Place while reading HBP (a lot. I saw theories about it the day after HBP came out). The locket, I thought was well led up to (Hermoine only remembering it after she thinks that the horcrux could have been at Grimmauld place). I was actually wondering how she could possibly have them remember it, but at the time, it didn't seem out of place at all. & the bezoar's egg saving Ron came after Harry used it in a lesson recently, so it would have been pretty fresh on his mind. Anyway, I think it's just artistic license. Character remember what they need to to help the plot, & don't remember when it also helps the plot.
 

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Okay, so many people seem confused by Neville and the sword.

Harry had no idea the sword would come from the hat in CoS. Dumbledore explained that only a TRUE Gryffindor - brave, ready to fight to save his friends - could pull the sword from the hat. And remember, the hat READS THOUGHT.

It was no surprise Neville pulled the sword from it. How did it get from the goblin to the hat??? Well, how did it get from DD's office to the hat down in the Chamber??? Same force - the hat read the thoughts of the wearer and produced the sword.

Because. It's. Magic.

The locket thing had me flashing back to LOTR... what happened to Golem and Frodo the longer they wore the ring? Connect the dots, people. :D.

Yes, I agree the whole "going down into the Chamber of Secrets" seemed like a cheap way for her to get out of the corner she had written herself into. How did Ron and Hermione get back out? In CoS, they held onto Fawkes' tail and flew out.
 

katiemac

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I actually didn't see it as cheap. The characters made their way back to almost every place they'd been through the series. (Godric's Hollow, the Quidditch Cup woods, Gringotts, Grimmauld Place, Ministry of Magic, right up to Dumbledore's [Snape's] office at the end... Chamber of Secrets makes sense, too. The only place the didn't visit, that I recall, is Riddle's graveyard.) They didn't need Fawkes to make their way this time -- they can Apparate.
 
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reenkam

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I doubt she wrote it like that just to get out of a plot hole, though. I mean...she could have just thought it over. Her publishing people weren't forcing her to finish certain dates. Well, they suggested dates, but she never really met them. So she probably knew what she was doing and has her own explainations, even if they didn't get in the book.