Why I Won't Beta Read Your Novel

Amadan: If I say "This doesn't make sense" and you proceed to tell me what it is I missed, there are two possibilities: (a) Your writing failed to convey what was in your head; (b) I am an idiot who couldn't understand what you wrote. It's up to you to decide which is the case, but explaining it to me does nothing for your book.

Click to expand...

Or (c) all of the above, in which case you're pretty much screwed.

Unimportant said:

Instead, please just pick one aspect of the craft and let me know what I've got wrong and, if you have the time, explain why it's wrong and how I could fix it.

Click to expand...

This will not help the writer learn how to improve the piece. If there are multiple errors, plot holes, POV issues, poor formatting and so on, then the writer needs to know that or else they need to work harder to find the publisher who will take their work as is. Some of the things a critter comments upon are not subjective.

Posters in SYW will know what to expect from the stickies and from seeing the critters in action. Criticism is always hard to take at the start of a new venture. Then again, the northern wind made the vikings.

When someone asks for a gentle crit, they tend to receive it. I've seen only one person step all over someone despite being asked not to by the OP. Pity. But generally it seems to work...

Unimportant said:

Karen, how would you suggest critiquers handle a writer who admits they cannot handle a long, heavy crit full of red ink?

Click to expand...

I think your idea of tag-teaming the crits is a good one, but I also think that some critiquers will not have the self-control to avoid pointing out everything they can find and some will try to use their questionable wittiness in the bargain. To me, the kindest thing we can do for a writer who can't handle an in-depth critique is to step away.

Great post, a lot to learn from it for sure I'm new and slow to post, so it might be a long time before I get my requisite 50, but then again I'm in no hurry. I thought about going to offer myself as beta, but saw a lot of people there with low post counts and thought to myself - would I want to get a beta from someone I don't really know? The answer's probably not. So I'm refraining for now.

I do have some experience with critting, and I have to say I won't touch any work that comes with disclaimers of "please be gentle/don't bleed red ink all over it/etc". It's for my own peace of mind, really, because I don't want to worry about being too blunt and ruining someone's day.

I find that people who go out of the way to be jerks in the name of tough love generally give rather useless critiques, though. "The characters were cliche and the writing was so bad my eyes started bleeding" might be a nice bit of old-school horror imagery but it doesn't really help anyone.

I point out every problem I see, objective or subjective. I often label the subjective ones with an "IMO." And I try to layer my shredding with some compliments so that the harsh medicine goes down a little easier. I've rarely come across a manuscript (or even a piece in SYW) that's so awful I can't find something nice to say.

I do that for two reasons: (a) the writer is likely to be more receptive to my crits if he's not feeling totally discouraged and/or despondent; and (b) the writer is less likely to throw out the baby with the bathwater in revisions.

When it comes to crits on my own stuff, I sometimes go through a couple of stages with harsh comments (the ones that don't immediately resonate, that is -- some do resonate immediately and I can't wait to revise accordingly, and some are fairly easy to reject):

(1) denial ("but I wanted that to be a surprise in chapter 16!")
(2) depression ("crap. he's totally right. and I don't know how to fix it.")
(3) overreaction ("my first 15 chapters are a worthless disaster!") and
(4) acceptance ("wait. the novel really starts in chapter three, but there's really no reason I can't make that plot point in chapter 16 clear right up front. that's better. much better.")

Sometimes a little positive stuff and a sentence of explanation mixed into a critique helps me bypass (or at least speed through) the useless first 3 stages altogether. And I'm guessing I'm not alone. Therefore, I always make a solid effort to do that when I'm critting or beta-ing.


And Unimportant, I've seen a lot of your crits. They're very useful, and I've never seen one I thought was a heartless shredding.

Unimportant said:

Karen, how would you suggest critiquers handle a writer who admits they cannot handle a long, heavy crit full of red ink?

Click to expand...

can't speak for Karen, but i usually leave the thread...



(that's not out of snark or anything like it...I know my strengths and weaknesses, and I'm better with the chainsaw than the jeweler's file.if they aren't up for that then there's no reason for me to fidget like a kid who's gotta pee in church or for them to have their world torn down around them, so it is just better that I step aside and someone who is good at soft crits find them instead. we all have our strengths and weaknesses....)

I've been pondering why we feel the need for a gentle crit of our work, and I've come to a conclusion--or, opinion, if you will:

We forget there are two separate and distinct stages to the creative process: that of author/creator, and that of editor. (Yes, editing is part of the creative process.) When we post work in SYW or send our work out to beta, we need to switch those roles. Sometimes we forget to do that at the correct time. The editor only wants to make the book or story better. He asks for guidance and direction on that. Some of the guidance is beneficial, some isn't. But, whether the crit is or is not beneficial, the editor is going to receive at the very least a general heading, a starting point for his approach. I think it's crucial that the editor be in place when reading crits. He's more receptive to crit comments than the author would be.

Ari Meermans said:

This is true, but there's something more important to the book itself that you have to consider: if you have to explain, then your writing didn't accomplish the job.

Click to expand...

Also remember: it's much better to run into this problem (and resolve it) with a beta reader than to take on a reviewer who points out the same issues!

This thread from last year had a lot to say on the subject of harsh critiques.

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219765

Amadan said:

I'll give a pass to younger writers asking for gentle crits. I've felt bad a few times when I critted in my usual (very direct) style and found out I'd just gutted a teenager.

Click to expand...

Presumably, if you can't tell they're a teenager, they can take it.

Unimportant said:

Yikes, I hope I'm not one of those people! But plz do tell me if I am: I need to learn.

Click to expand...

From what I've seen around the threads you haven't been. But it's nice to know that you wouldn't want to be one!

Unimportant said:

I think the problem arises when the author is either very new to AW and hasn't looked at anything else in SYW but just leaps in (and is then devastated to learn that critiques are not all positive), or (more commonly) the author truly believes that their writing is at a higher level than it truly is, so they're quite shocked when critiquers say the work isn't yet at publication level.

Click to expand...

Maybe it would be ideal to have a word limit here to, maybe encourage authors around the board before they request a beta, like with SYW (50 posts)?

I know I rarely beta for anyone under 1,000 posts. Anything above that, I know they've been around and understand how crits work (hopefully).

Maryn said:

That's about my level, too, Fallen, although I've never made it official or anything. When someone has a whole bunch of posts, I know they're not here just to take but are a part of the community. That's who I'm happy to beta for.

Maryn, whose house just shook (off to investigate)

Click to expand...

I like looking after the oldies too Those whose post counts make my fingers hurt (the 15, 20 25k-ers).

And your house just shook? I hate earthquakes. Hope it wasn't one!

... when critiquing somebody's stuff it's always important to determine what stage they're at. If they're a beginner (it's easy to tell) then one should take it easy with the critique, imo. If there are 40 things wrong with a story, point out 7 and leave it at that. Also couch the critique in a friendly and supportive way. Beginning writers are usually sensitive and unsure of themselves and they often need to be handled with care. Otherwise they can get discouraged and quit. It's not a reflection on them. Many are like that at the outset and that's true of all pursuits. My two cents.

Ken said:

If there are 40 things wrong with a story, point out 7 and leave it at that.

Click to expand...

Good idea. Then let them go ahead and submit their work with the remaining 33 mistakes and let the editor or agent send them a form rejection?

I don't think that omitting critique to save someone's feelings is the kindest thing you can do to help them improve their work. I'm just not sure it's my job to do a critique for someone who may not be able to handle honesty.

^^ What Karen said. If you agree to do a beta read, you owe the author a complete job. Everything you don't comment on is a tacit endorsement of that writing.

Unimportant said:

I think it depends on whether it's someone in SYW who is looking for critiques with the intent of improving their craft, versus some who is looking for a final beta-read/polish before submitting their work.

Click to expand...

... pretty much this. If someone has that many issues in a story they're just not ready to sub. No where near it. They've got a lot of learning ahead of them. So a full critique really isn't needed at this stage in the game. They still could very much use feedback from those with experience and know-how. Just nothing too overwhelming. Again, my 2 cents.

Al Stevens said:

Everything you don't comment on is a tacit endorsement of that writing.

Click to expand...

... you do sorta have a point there. So maybe at the end a note could be included saying that, "there were some other issues you're not going to get into for one reason and another."