Biden Shotguns

GeorgeK · Feb 22, 2013

http://www.nationalreview.com/corne...hotgun-calls-his-advice-sexist-andrew-johnson

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...o-politics-good-for-obama-administration.html

These appear to me to be the two ends of the spectrum. In one the interpretation of his comments are, "You get 2 shots to defend yourself and that's it, but just scare them off, don't try to shoot anybody." Some have interpreted this as him saying that women are too stupid to use anything beyond a shotgun and or say that 2 shots is inadequate when the intruders have more.

In the other he's concerned presumably about how things other than pellet rounds in a shotgun tend to shoot through walls and kill your own family when you miss. This is a legitimate concern

True, usually scaring the intruders works, but not always. I've been shot at at by intruders at my own home and I say a 2 barrel shotgun is inadequte and women and men should be able to buy more than a shotgun. We at least should be able to get equal to what the criminals have

Plot Device · Feb 22, 2013

Shotguns are NOT meant to be used indoors.

They tend to blow incredibly messy holes into things, walls, eardrums, people, etc. There are much better choices for home defense than a shotgun.

The only GOOD thing to be said about a shotgun INSIDE your home is that at 3 in the morning, in a deathly quiet house, the very sound of a pump-action shotgun being cocked is unmistakable. So unless the perp in your house is stone deaf, that sound will likely send him scrambing for the exit.

But firing the damned thing inside your house is not advisable.

Vince524 · Feb 22, 2013

I thought he said something about going out onto a balcony and shooting it in the air.

You know, so you've in essence wasted the ammo in your shotgun on not killing the person breaking in so if they don't panic they know you've got to reload.

But you won't kill the poor guy.

You might kill your neighbor. Or his kid. But the perp is safe.

Cause bullets that you shoot as warning shots have to go somewhere.

And now you're stuck trying to reload while you're in fear of your life.

I think we should have legislation passed banning idiot politicians who have secret service protection from shooting off their mouths about things they clearly have no clue about.

Plot Device · Feb 22, 2013

The currrent prevailing widsom among American rural gunowners is that every country household needs to have at the very least a "four-gun battery."

1) a .22 rifle -- for taking very small game, for eliminating nuisance critters (fox, groundhogs, etc), and for target practice ('cuz .22 ammo is cheap, and if you go to the range once a week to practice, and if you burn through 100 rounds per week, .22 is about the cheapest ammo you can get; also the recoil is very light, so it won't tear your shoulder up from week after week of practice)

2) a shotgun -- for hunting fowl, and for defense against the rare instance when a very large and aggressive (even rabid or feral) wild animal might come onto your property (like a wolf or a bear or a wild boar); some people say they would use a shotgun to defend the exterior of their house against intruders who are outside on their property, but I can't see that as ethical because you can rip a mighty big hole in someone with a shotgun, and besides if they are OUTSIDE the home, unless they are packing a Howitzer, I disagree that a shotgun is necassary to ever be used against another human being

3) a deer rifle -- specifically for hunting large game, more powerful than a .22, not as messy as a shotgun, much longer range than a shotgun

4) a handgun -- for self-defense INSIDE the house, because a long rifle is just too darned unwieldy in close quarters when seconds count.

These four guns are deemed the foundation for a well-rounded domestic battery. Each gun serves its own purpose for a private citizen's needs, especially in a rural setting. And a shotgun for self-defense inside your house is just stupid.

robeiae · Feb 22, 2013

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnhI_ECOAK4

That's all I can think of now.

Plot Device · Feb 22, 2013

Vince524 said:
Cause bullets that you shoot as warning shots have to go somewhere.

I thought they kept going forever upward into infinity. Shucks. I wonder if Joe Biden will be just as disappointed as I am over that news. (So don't tell him!)

Vince524 said:
I think we should have legislation passed banning idiot politicians who have secret service protection (which includes water pistols) from shooting off their mouths (hee hee! you are funny!) about things they clearly have no clue about.

BradyH1861 · Feb 22, 2013

I wouldn't take Biden's advice on anything....particularly guns.

That said, shotguns do have their place. Racking a round in a shotgun gets everyone's attention, that is for sure.

You can point a rifle/handgun at one bad guy and say "You are under arrest." But you can point a shotgun a five bad guys and say "All of you are under arrest." (Or, where I live, "Y'all are under arrest.")

If you use a shotgun for home defense, even if you miss the person, the muzzle blast might give them a heart attack.

Vince524 · Feb 22, 2013

Plot Device said:
I thought they kept going forever upward into infinity. Shucks. I wonder if Joe Biden will be just as disappointed as I am over that news. (So don't tell him!)

Are you mocking me??

I don't have to come here to get mocked. I'm married with teen children you know!! :tongue

BradyH1861 said:
I wouldn't take Biden's advice on anything....particularly guns.

That said, shotguns do have their place. Racking a round in a shotgun gets everyone's attention, that is for sure.

You can point a rifle/handgun at one bad guy and say "You are under arrest." But you can point a shotgun a five bad guys and say "All of you are under arrest." (Or, where I live, "Y'all are under arrest.")

If you use a shotgun for home defense, even if you miss the person, the muzzle blast might give them a heart attack.

Nothing wrong with using a shotgun, but the whole warning shot thing? Or telling people what they should do as if one thing fits each situation? There's where he went wrong. Well, that and opening his mouth.

BradyH1861 · Feb 22, 2013

Vince524 said:
Nothing wrong with using a shotgun, but the whole warning shot thing? Or telling people what they should do as if one thing fits each situation? There's where he went wrong. Well, that and opening his mouth.

I agree. If someone is breaking into your house or threatening you with imminent harm, a warning shot is a waste of time and may in fact put you in more danger.

I'm pretty sure his secret service detail doesn't do warning shots.

GeorgeK · Feb 22, 2013

Vince524 said:
but the whole warning shot thing? Or telling people what they should do as if one thing fits each situation? There's where he went wrong. Well, that and opening his mouth.

In my experience only canines understand warning shots. Put one in the dirt near them and they don't come back. Do that with a criminal and they say, "Hey, he's a bad shot."

Plot Device · Feb 22, 2013

BradyH1861 said:
You can point a rifle/handgun at one bad guy and say "You are under arrest." But you can point a shotgun a five bad guys and say "All of you are under arrest." (Or, where I live, "Y'all are under arrest.")

I'm told that a few generations ago, farmers used shotguns to chase hooligan teens off their land, especially if the kids were in some way vandaliazing or cow tipping or even stealing their apples or tomatoes or whatever they farmer was growing. But they's never put actual shot into the shotguns,. Instead they'd put granular salt in them (not rock salt). Stings like hell, doesn't inflict permanent damage, and also wouldn't cause an infection (not directly) because salt is ... well it's salt.

BradyH1861 said:
If you use a shotgun for home defense, even if you miss the person, the muzzle blast might give them a heart attack.

'Specially if the perp witnessed the "missed" shot tearing a swath off the side of a nearby tree that the perp thought he was about to go and hide behind.

Plot Device · Feb 22, 2013

Vince524 said:
Are you mocking me??

I don't have to come here to get mocked. I'm married with teen children you know!!

I mock on occassion.

Vince524 said:
Nothing wrong with using a shotgun, but the whole warning shot thing? Or telling people what they should do as if one thing fits each situation? There's where he went wrong. Well, that and opening his mouth.

Dammit! I want a balcony! Where's my Jobiden Balcony? How am I supposed to defend myself without a Jobiden Balcony?

Vince524 · Feb 22, 2013

Plot Device said:
I'm told that a few generations ago, farmers used shotguns to chase hooligan teens off their land, especially if the kids were in some way vandaliazing or cow tipping or even stealing their apples or tomatoes or whatever they farmer was growing. But they's never put actual shot into the shotguns,. Instead they'd put granular salt in them (not rock salt). Stings like hell, doesn't inflict permanent damage, and also wouldn't cause an infection (not directly) because salt is ... well it's salt.

Yeah, it's salt.

Plot Device said:
I mock on occassion.

As opposed to me. I never mock. I'm always serious.

Stop laughing, dammit!

Plot Device said:
Dammit! I want a balcony! Where's my Jobiden Balcony? How am I supposed to defend myself without a Jobiden Balcony?

In Biden' world, everyone already has one.

Gregg · Feb 22, 2013

Right.
Take 2 shots in the air and you are out of ammo.
Then what?

Gregg · Feb 22, 2013

If Biden's wife followed his advice, she could end up in jail:

"However, Delaware law would likely make his suggestion illegal—unless the shots were fired in self-defense in a truly life-threatening situation.

A sergeant with the Wilmington, Del., police department explained to U.S. News that city residents are not allowed to fire guns on their property.

The sergeant, who preferred not to be identified, said that Wilmington residents are also not allowed to shoot trespassers. "On your property you can't just shoot someone," he said. "You have to really feel that your life is being threatened."

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles...-shotgun-advice-could-land-jill-biden-in-jail

Nice going, Joe.

dfwtinman · Feb 22, 2013

The vast majority of duck hunters use semi-automatic shotguns, which in practice hold three shells (the guns have a "plug" which reduces the 5-shell design to 3 to comply with laws on hunting migratory waterfowl). There really isn't much of a racking sound. And since federal laws have long since outlawed hunting with lead shot, the stopping power at typical range is greatly reduced.

I don't use my shotgun for anything except waterfowl hunting. By the time I got up, found it , found the shells (not kept with the gun), any intruder would have come and gone. But assuming I had it loaded, a shotgun is a very useful weapon in close quarters. It's an "area weapon", it doesn't require any particular accuracy indoors. People who haven't practiced with a handgun are often quite surprised at how hard it is to aim a handgun with any accuracy from as close as across a large room. Shotguns with typical duck-hunting loads aren't really apt to be lethal through a wall or even a solid door. And as for "neighbors," shotguns aren't apt to pose much danger at all, and certainly not if "aimed in the air" (again, assuming we are talking steel duck shot). I've been "shot" more than a few times by duck hunters say 75-80 yards away, never eliciting much more than a "hey, as*hole, find your own spot."

Vince524 · Feb 22, 2013

I don't own any gun, to be honest. But if someone broke into my home, he would have to get through me and my light-saber.

Fear me.

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/...I_ku7L6NKijRLpoaFCGqd6wVHpebQBW7xciliJwX1wyu2

GeorgeK · Feb 23, 2013

dfwtinman said:
I don't use my shotgun for anything except waterfowl

I've eaten turkey shot by birdshot and lead doesn't taste good. I can't imagine that leaded-duck would be better.

A splatter rifle might be good for in home defense (let me pull up Wolfenstein). Don't blow out walls, let's see a bucket of spackle is like $20. A piece of 1/2 drywall is like $10. A good quality gallon of paint is like $20.

Area of Effect and poor penetration of walls is nice for the people who don't target practice. However a shotgun weighs 7+ pounds. If you have to go to out buildings or the edge of your property and you are borderline healthy there is a difference between a 7 pound shotgun and a one pound handgun.

GeorgeK · Feb 23, 2013

Vince524 said:
Stop laughing, dammit!

.

I can't Help it. It's the medication!

Don · Feb 23, 2013

Vince524 said:
I think we should have legislation passed banning idiot politicians who have secret service protection from shooting off their mouths about things they clearly have no clue about.

I'm with you here, but doesn't that mean they would be effectively silenced? It seems that damned near everything that comes out of a politician's mouth meets that criteria.

Gregg · Feb 23, 2013

Don said:
I'm with you here, but doesn't that mean they would be effectively silenced? It seems that damned near everything that comes out of a politician's mouth meets that criteria.

Another great use for duct tape.

dfwtinman · Feb 23, 2013

GeorgeK said:
I've eaten turkey shot by birdshot and lead doesn't taste good. I can't imagine that leaded-duck would be better.

Well, as I said, we're talking (stainless) steel not lead.

Typically, folks just take the breast meat from ducks. Depending on the range of the shot, it's not uncommon that no shot enters this meat (or is easily dislodged by just rinsing).

Jean Marie · Feb 25, 2013

BradyH1861 said:
I wouldn't take Biden's advice on anything....particularly guns.

That said, shotguns do have their place. Racking a round in a shotgun gets everyone's attention, that is for sure.

You can point a rifle/handgun at one bad guy and say "You are under arrest." But you can point a shotgun a five bad guys and say "All of you are under arrest." (Or, where I live, "Y'all are under arrest.")

If you use a shotgun for home defense, even if you miss the person, the muzzle blast might give them a heart attack.

I wouldn't take Biden's advice on anything, either.

Even w/ the accent, if I pointed a shotgun at a number of people, outside of my house, I'd be in way more trouble than them unless I had a damned good reason for doing so. I'd have to have a solid reason for doing so: my life was in imminent danger, etc., for starters.

If I missed, I'd have a skylight in whichever room I happened to be in, if I was inside

BradyH1861 said:
I agree. If someone is breaking into your house or threatening you with imminent harm, a warning shot is a waste of time and may in fact put you in more danger.

I'm pretty sure his secret service detail doesn't do warning shots.

A warning shot isn't going to do any good whatsoever. My saying I've got a gun might help, or not.

I agree that the Secret Service doesn't give warning shots; that would give that person a chance to kill.

Gregg said:
Right.
Take 2 shots in the air and you are out of ammo.
Then what?

Run & hide under the bed, wondering why I wasted the ammo?

Gregg said:
If Biden's wife followed his advice, she could end up in jail:

"However, Delaware law would likely make his suggestion illegal—unless the shots were fired in self-defense in a truly life-threatening situation.

A sergeant with the Wilmington, Del., police department explained to U.S. News that city residents are not allowed to fire guns on their property.

The sergeant, who preferred not to be identified, said that Wilmington residents are also not allowed to shoot trespassers. "On your property you can't just shoot someone," he said. "You have to really feel that your life is being threatened."

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles...-shotgun-advice-could-land-jill-biden-in-jail

Nice going, Joe.

Same here in CT.

My exact thoughts: Way to go, Joe, dispensing legal advice, once again that will get the public jailed. Maybe, that's his plan

If I discharge a firearm, outdoors as in warning shots, I'm liable to lose said firearm, be fined and wind up in court along w/ never being able to get a permit for a gun, or if I have a permit, have it taken away from me. Especially, in the current environment w/ new laws about to be put onto the books-reckless use of a firearm.

Love the setting he said this in: Parent Magazine. Nice.

GeorgeK · Feb 25, 2013

dfwtinman said:
Well, as I said, we're talking (stainless) steel not lead.

Typically, folks just take the breast meat from ducks. Depending on the range of the shot, it's not uncommon that no shot enters this meat (or is easily dislodged by just rinsing).

Is steel shot a national or state thing? I don't hunt but have occassionaly been given deer, turkey etc.

If no shot enters the duck, what kills it, shock and drowning?

Don · Feb 25, 2013

Here's the kinda shotgun ol' Joe needs.

...or maybe his problem is he had a few too many in his youth.

Biden Shotguns

ever seeking

A woman said to write like a man.

Are you gonna finish that bacon?

A woman said to write like a man.

Touch and go

A woman said to write like a man.

Hold Fast.

Are you gonna finish that bacon?

Hold Fast.

ever seeking

A woman said to write like a man.

A woman said to write like a man.

Are you gonna finish that bacon?

Life is good

Life is good

Cubic Zirconia in the rough

Are you gonna finish that bacon?

ever seeking

ever seeking

All Living is Local

Life is good

Cubic Zirconia in the rough

calm waters ahead

ever seeking

All Living is Local