• Basic Writing questions is not a crit forum. All crits belong in Share Your Work

How many words?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Bri Perkins

Sockpuppet
Banned
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
91
Reaction score
2
How many words should a novel that is targeted at a YA audience be? Also, what's the difference between a novel and novella?
 

Kerosene

Your Pixie Queen
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 29, 2012
Messages
5,762
Reaction score
1,045
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
YA likes to be on the shorter side. Typically 70-120K.
But any good story will be allowed how many words it needs to come out.

Novella is a shorter than a novel, longer than a short story. Typically under 80K, but I think the standard lands about under 60K.
 

Kerosene

Your Pixie Queen
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 29, 2012
Messages
5,762
Reaction score
1,045
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
Would a YA novel be sellable at 200,000 words?

Ah... if the story needs 200K, and a publisher gets through it all without complaining, anything is possible. Chances are probably nil though. 200K is 800pages, and I've never seen a YA that long.

I'm guessing that this is your first draft? Possibly first novel? I'm certain you can cut that down. I've seen people with 300K MS take a chainsaw to them and afterward, struggle to meet 100K. Otherwise, if the story is as compact and concise as you can get it and everything has been boiled down to the point that there is absolutely no way you can cut it down further, you can always break it up into 2 books of 100K, but each book needs to act as standalone novels, as apposed to 2 volumes of a book.
 

Bri Perkins

Sockpuppet
Banned
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
91
Reaction score
2
Ah... if the story needs 200K, and a publisher gets through it all without complaining, anything is possible. Chances are probably nil though. 200K is 800pages, and I've never seen a YA that long.

I'm guessing that this is your first draft? Possibly first novel? I'm certain you can cut that down. I've seen people with 300K MS take a chainsaw to them and afterward, struggle to meet 100K. Otherwise, if the story is as compact and concise as you can get it and everything has been boiled down to the point that there is absolutely no way you can cut it down further, you can always break it up into 2 books of 100K, but each book needs to act as standalone novels, as apposed to 2 volumes of a book.

You make a point. How many pages would 100K generally equate to?
 

Kerosene

Your Pixie Queen
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 29, 2012
Messages
5,762
Reaction score
1,045
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
You make a point. How many pages would 100K generally equate to?

A page of fiction, more or less equates to 250words (some people count a little higher, some lower).
So 100K would be around 400pages.

It all depend on the formatting the publisher uses, shorter/longer paragraphs, and other variables. as a example: A dialogue heavy book might be longer because there's more space taken up on each page.
 

Spell-it-out

I'm gonna give all my secrets away
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 17, 2008
Messages
1,028
Reaction score
86
Location
Ireland
I have to agree with Will, if you can't cut it down to 140K-ish, divide it into two separate books.
 

shaldna

The cake is a lie. But still cake.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 12, 2009
Messages
7,485
Reaction score
897
Location
Belfast
200k is very long for a first novel, especially in YA.

That said, if the novel needs to be that long and it doesn't drag then it's not necessarily going to prevent it being published, but bear in mind that longer novels cost more to physically produce, and that means more money has to be invested into the writer.
 

VoireyLinger

Angel Wing Fetish
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 10, 2010
Messages
1,595
Reaction score
127
Location
Southern US
Website
www.voireylinger.com
200K is far over the target range for fiction, regardless of genre or target audience. Most guidelines I've seen call for YA books to be in the 50K to 100K range. That can vary depending on house or agency, but it's a good ballpark. The main genre will have some bearing on how much you can get away with, just as it does with adult audiences.

The 250/page count is an old school industry estimate for formatted manuscript pages. (Double spaced, font size 12, 1 inch margins, 25 lines/page, TNR or courier.) Keep in mind it has no relevance on printed book pages.

Novel vs. novella is often determined by publisher. I've had two books published as 'short novels' in the 30-40K range, but at other publishers those might have been called novellas. My base guideline for book length is -- Under 20K - short story, 20-40K - Novella, 40-60K - category length, 60+ - Novel. Before I sumbit anything, I check publisher/agency guidelines to how they define length and go with their definitions.
 

ChristinaLayton

Sockpuppet
Banned
Joined
Dec 13, 2012
Messages
452
Reaction score
40
Location
Florida
Always check agent guidelines for submissions when it comes to word count. Agentquery.com is a great place to start querying. Every agent has different word-count guidelines for each genre they read submissions of. The story would have to be a masterpiece, a wonder, to sell at 200k words in any genre, let alone YA.

Just one random question: You've started like 5 threads in this subforum alone. Do you think you could post all your questions in one single thread? I'm just wondering. I've been lurking for a while, before actually joining 2 weeks ago, and I've never seen a member ask so many questions in the same subforum.
 

BethS

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
11,708
Reaction score
1,763
You make a point. How many pages would 100K generally equate to?

That can vary a lot, depending on the size of the font, the margins, and the kerning (space between the letters) in the published book. But a 100K novel is generally not a thick book.

And to answer your original question, 200K is far outside the range of the typical YA manuscript.

That said, check this vlog by agent Kristin Nelson about why length is the wrong question to be asking.
 
Last edited:

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
23,079
Reaction score
10,775
Location
Where faults collide
Website
doggedlywriting.blogspot.com
Would a YA novel be sellable at 200,000 words?

I think it would be a very tough sell for a first time, unpublished author. Even an adult fantasy novel (the genre that's notorious for running long) would be a very tough sell at that length, or any length above about 120k words. YA novels tend to run shorter than adult novels, so 50-80k words would likely be pretty "ideal" for this target audience, and anything over 100k would be considered very long for a YA (or even an adult novel from an unknown writer in most genres).

This oft cited article has some information about normal and expected lengths for various genres.

There are exceptions to every rule, of course. An exceptionally well-written novel might be picked up if it exceeds the standard word count (though the agent and or publisher may still work with the author on editing it down, as needed). But something that is double the normal upper level of the standard length for the genre would have a huge strike against it.
 

wampuscat

Recovering adjective addict
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 5, 2011
Messages
3,130
Reaction score
410
Status
Not open for further replies.