Wandering Sage Publications (formerly Emerald Falcon Press)

IceCreamEmpress said:

I'm not sure of what you mean by this--could you amplify?

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I was given a contract for a book to be published. My manuscript and several "parts" were lost several times. I also had an instance where I submitted a photo that I paid for, from istockphoto for use in the cover - the cover was then given to me with my name spelled wrong and it was elementary looking (not a professional cover, done by Dave I believe) where I have an email that states "I found this and thought it looked great"
??? I gave the photo.

Again, I want to take it as Dave is just super busy - and if you look at "john" this is the kind of "HELP" he has? Oh my.

Anyway, when I was able to cancel the contract (too fearful and not interested in going forward with it) I was given a bill.
I decided not to pay the "bill" because I never was compensated for my public relations work (albeit I didn't see it in use either but I did produce as asked).
I was also asked to proofread and edit other writers work - and I am not a professional editor (I hire those, even though I was a news editor, which is very different than a book editor)

This is what I meant (plus some).
Shane deserves more and Dave deserves more than "John". I think it looks like John here, the big mouth professional spokesperson, may be the link that is weak that needs to go bye-bye.
He must be on the store end as I never heard of him and have many chats with Dave on Yahoo IM and it was never discussed that he had this "helper".

tbrosz said:

If I might step carefully into Thunderdome here, I have been to the Wandering Sage website and there doesn't seem to be anything at all related to submissions or anything else pertaining to publishing books for authors. Am I missing something?

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They were taking submissions pretty much by word of mouth, through myspace... there was from what I saw, nothing professionally placed yet I did submit an email and document to him early on to help him that had submission guides.
I also know he uses a very connected man to glean manuscripts, and with misfortune, since I've known all of this, none of those submissions have come to fruition, and of the few books that have been turned out from folks, I don't see how they even have a press release or anything - I did some work free for Judy who wrote "A Life Preserver in a Sea of Debt" as I felt sorry for her. We spent quite a lot of time on the phone a few times... she is in her 70's and it's a shame.

SO no there hasn't been submission guidelines but plenty of Myspace networking. Which isn't to be negated.
I do NOT critique them for doing things unique, and no one should imply that if it is not cookie cutter or what "they" expect it is wrong.

However, organization and ethics should never be compromised.

legalwriterPR said:

They were taking submissions pretty much by word of mouth, through myspace... there was from what I saw, nothing professionally placed yet I did submit an email and document to him early on to help him that had submission guides.
I also know he uses a very connected man to glean manuscripts, and with misfortune, since I've known all of this, none of those submissions have come to fruition, and of the few books that have been turned out from folks, I don't see how they even have a press release or anything - I did some work free for Judy who wrote "A Life Preserver in a Sea of Debt" as I felt sorry for her. We spent quite a lot of time on the phone a few times... she is in her 70's and it's a shame.

SO no there hasn't been submission guidelines but plenty of Myspace networking. Which isn't to be negated.
I do NOT critique them for doing things unique, and no one should imply that if it is not cookie cutter or what "they" expect it is wrong.

However, organization and ethics should never be compromised.

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My bolding.

I am totally and utterly speechless...

Wow, legalwriterPR. Thanks for sharing that experience. Yikes!

I know Michelle. She is great! I am sure she will have success in all she does. I am sorry she left WS, but if I had those problems, I would have left too.

I e-mailed WS with a WTF on the web site. Here is the new one thus far. I am not sure what the issue is with the web designer and WS. Probably a communication thing? I have no idea. I first brought this up several months ago.
http://www.wandering-sage.com/publishing/index.php

Shit, maybe they are "bass ackwards." They do me right, their checks cash, and my lights are on because I sell books. So as long as they support me, I am in their corner.

~Shane

Michelle, you are posting a bit of a one sided view. The oldest of these contracts was ten months ago and it needed work. As is the case with most celebrity writers. Even if the script was tight, ten months from submission to print would be quite fast.

Wandering sage as been a "referral" submission publisher since its inception. That is how they came across my work.

And came by yours, if I recall.

I have no idea what WS and you discussed. I know you have great talents in the realm of marketing.

As far as Judy, what did WS do that was bad for her? No marketing is common for small publishers and new writers. Ask Bari Bumgarner or Michales Warwick Joy from Tigress. Or Joe Lawson from LBF. Even John Beachum from Mundania had to get out there and beat their own bushes. Just as I have.

I do not know the issues Judy has had with WS. My books have come out and they sell.

~Shane

Shane, um who are you talking to? I'm not following who your posts are addressing and they're sort of confusing.

*temporarily returns to AW*

Read the first page of the thread, LeBlanc.

M.R.J. Le Blanc said:

Shane, um who are you talking to? I'm not following who your posts are addressing and they're sort of confusing.

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Sorry, I was talking to Legal Writer PR. She and I are friends. Her name is Michele. I should have clarified for the group.

~Shane

Author Shane Moore said:

No marketing is common for small publishers and new writers.

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For small publishers, yes. For new writers, no.

- Victoria

victoriastrauss said:

For small publishers, yes. For new writers, no.

- Victoria

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Hmmm How about new writers with small publishers? LOL Perhaps I should clarify...

However, few "new" writers are talented enough to be picked up by large houses from the get go. (Like me, for example) Thus, as we continue to refine our craft-our stock with larger houses increases with our fan base.

~Shane

Author Shane Moore said:

However, few "new" writers are talented enough to be picked up by large houses from the get go. (Like me, for example) Thus, as we continue to refine our craft-our stock with larger houses increases with our fan base.

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If you're not talented enough to be picked up by a big house from the get go, odds are you never will be. I know that sounds harsh, and it's not intended as a comment on your writing, which I've never seen. But a fan base is not a substitute for a marketable manuscript.

Publishers take on new writers with marketable books regardless of whether they've published before or have a following. This is why new writers who are interested in a writing career should start at the top. They may not make it, but if they don't try, they'll never know.

- Victoria

new writers who are interested in a writing career should start at the top. They may not make it, but if they don't try, they'll never know.

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I can second that from my own experience.

I sent my first MS out to large houses. It was rejected. I was too green to know that you don't send fantasy to a mystery publisher. (Do'h!) The rejections piled up.

So I started sending out to small presses, unaware they have higher overheads, smaller profit margins, and have to be much more picky about what they accept.

More rejections, then finally a request for a full.

I didn't have time to make a copy; the small press went bankrupt.

Frustrated, I sent that MS (polished now after a ton of rewrites) to the biggest damn house on the map.

Good heavens--they accepted it, right off the slush pile.

So that's why I will always tell neos that after they've polished, had beta-readers rip it to shreds, polished again, and then polished some more to start at the TOP. Send it to the biggest publisher, the busiest agent.

It just might work out.

Gillhoughly said:

I can second that from my own experience.

I sent my first MS out to large houses. It was rejected. I was too green to know that you don't send fantasy to a mystery publisher. (Do'h!) The rejections piled up.

So I started sending out to small presses, unaware they have higher overheads, smaller profit margins, and have to be much more picky about what they accept.

More rejections, then finally a request for a full.

I didn't have time to make a copy; the small press went bankrupt.

Frustrated, I sent that MS (polished now after a ton of rewrites) to the biggest damn house on the map.

Good heavens--they accepted it, right off the slush pile.

So that's why I will always tell neos that after they've polished, had beta-readers rip it to shreds, polished again, and then polished some more to start at the TOP. Send it to the biggest publisher, the busiest agent.

It just might work out.

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Though in fairness, a reputable small press--of which there are many--can also act as a foot in the door, which has been the case for many authors I know. I just want us to be a bit cautious about the "big house or bust" attitude...if you pick a well-known, well-respected small publisher (think Night Shade a few years ago before they became larger, or Tachyon, or Five Star), that can also be a good way to get started. Not disagreeing, exactly...just throwing in a minor caveat.

I think, from reading all sorts of info and opinions since I started here, is you're either good enough to be picked up by a publisher or you're not. Like Gil said smaller houses have to be pickier about what they publish than the larger ones, and put out less than the bigger houses in order to give everyone they publish as much support as possible. They can be a great way to get started, but I think it's a mistake to think getting published with a small house gives you any sort of edge. I don't remember who said it, but he/she said that even most published authors know that their next book isn't a guaranteed success. Sure their odds are probably far better, but it's not a guarantee and I've not seen much to say that having a book or books published in the past means the one you're submitting is a winner. Plus I think trying to build a fanbase first, even if you're successful at it, would just give you even more pressure because then you'd be trying to write to please them.

So I guess the best advice anyone could give is to write a book, polish the heck out of it like Gil said, start from the biggest legit publisher and work your way down. Someone will pick you up, whether it's a large or small house and if you're content with what you're getting out of it then it's all good

M.R.J. Le Blanc said:

I think, from reading all sorts of info and opinions since I started here, is you're either good enough to be picked up by a publisher or you're not. Like Gil said smaller houses have to be pickier about what they publish than the larger ones, and put out less than the bigger houses in order to give everyone they publish as much support as possible. They can be a great way to get started, but I think it's a mistake to think getting published with a small house gives you any sort of edge.

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I can say from direct experience that being published by a reputable (that part is very important) small press does make a difference to larger houses, especially if you have good sell-through of your smaller print run. Anyway, let's get back on the Wandering Sage topic, I guess.

only thing that's important to me is how the books get onto bookshelves.

it appears that WS doesn't have a distributor so the bulk of the sales have to be author-generated through either word-of-mouth or through the author buying and reselling the books her/himself. Or going from store to store begging managers to order a few copies and hope for the best.

that's a hard way to build a fan base.

Phoenix Fury said:

I can say from direct experience that being published by a reputable (that part is very important) small press does make a difference to larger houses, especially if you have good sell-through of your smaller print run. Anyway, let's get back on the Wandering Sage topic, I guess.

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So . . . is Wandering Sage reputable?

victoriastrauss said:

. But a fan base is not a substitute for a marketable manuscript. - Victoria

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Completely inaccurate. If you sell, you will get contract offers. I can name dozens of subpar writers with HUGE fan bases and large bank accounts to boot.

How about celebs that write their own work? Crappy writing but their fans eat it up.

If this were true, explain Christopher Paolini. His scripts are littered with purple prose and yet he out sells all of us!

I am not suggesting trying to make it WITHOUT building your skills. Every day we write should be day we strive to better our craft.

~Shane

M.R.J. Le Blanc said:

Plus I think trying to build a fanbase first, even if you're successful at it, would just give you even more pressure because then you'd be trying to write to please them.

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"A novice writes for himself. A Pro writes for his audience."

~Shane

Christopher Hawk said:

So . . . is Wandering Sage reputable?

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Here are some of their stars and their "other than WS works". You decide;

Jeff Breslaur-Pixar
Peter Mayhew-Star Wars
Roy C Booth-co wrote the terminal with Brian Keene
Sean Taylor-Gene Simmons Dominatrix
M.B. Weston
And that is just to name a few.

~Shane

Sheryl Nantus said:

only thing that's important to me is how the books get onto bookshelves.

it appears that WS doesn't have a distributor so the bulk of the sales have to be author-generated through either word-of-mouth or through the author buying and reselling the books her/himself. Or going from store to store begging managers to order a few copies and hope for the best.

that's a hard way to build a fan base.

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This is true-unfortunately. I know they have recently had conference with Blue Sky Media-but I am not holding my breath.

~Shane

Author Shane Moore said:

Here are some of their stars and their "other than WS works". You decide;

Jeff Breslaur-Pixar
Peter Mayhew-Star Wars
Roy C Booth-co wrote the terminal with Brian Keene
Sean Taylor-Gene Simmons Dominatrix
M.B. Weston
And that is just to name a few.

~Shane

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Yes, but I think the big question is did their success come before or after Wandering Sage?

Author Shane Moore said:

This is true-unfortunately. I know they have recently had conference with Blue Sky Media-but I am not holding my breath.

~Shane

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exactly.

while personal contact is a great way to sell your book there's only so much a single person can do - online and off.

having a distributor who can get your books into bookstores that are on the other side of the country; into cities that you don't personally visit and onto shelves for people who don't have a clue who you are to pick up and browse... that's where the sales are.

you *can* sell books without a distributor - but it's an uphill battle against all the other books who DO get onto shelves without personal visits from the author begging for shelf space. And wouldn't you rather be spending that time writing???

Author Shane Moore said:

Here are some of their stars and their "other than WS works". You decide

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How does any of that speak to the reliability of the press itself? Or of the number of buyers and readers it can reach? People who have success in other venues and with other publishers can still be published by a press that doesn't deliver on its commitments and/or get their books into stores. (PublishAmerica, for instance, brags about all the successful people like Jamie Farr who have published with them.)

Jeff Breslauer and Peter Mayhew are actors; their profession doesn't make them better judges of publishers than anyone else. Sean Taylor has had success with comics published by IDW, which has excellent distribution; whether or not Wandering Sage will be as successful for him only time will tell, I suppose.

As for M.B. Weston and Roy C. Booth, if they're happy with Wandering Sage, that's great and I'm glad for them. Have they had strong sales with the company? I've never heard of either of them nor seen their books in a bookstore or at a con, but if they're making lots of sales, that's certainly a good sign for Wandering Sage.