Institute of Children's Literature

Gindee77

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Mnorton, did you read this entire thread? It is very enlightening and helpful. I just sent my money off today. I have sort of the same dream you do. Maybe you should take the offer of the ICL and get some names and numbers of people in your area who have taken the course and call and talk to them. I did a lot of research before I sent in my tuition and I couldn't find anything bad online about them. In fact, that's how I found this forum. I chose to go for it because I'm a total beginner and don't have any experience in this sort of writing and they say ICL is a good place to start if you have no experience. Good luck in your quest.

Ginni
 

RoseWrites

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Okay, here's what I'm wondering and anyone can answer this.....
I took the test, I was accepted, but do you know of anyone who wasn't accepted? I understand they may be a good school, but maybe they accept everyone so they can get more money (it is quite expensive). A friend of mine took the test just recently and gave horrible answers and story just to see if they would reject him. I have yet to hear back as it's only been 2wks, but anyone else?
 

Inspired

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That was answered in one of Granny's responses on a previous page (this thread.) I don't know anyone personally, but she said she does.

As you go along, the instructor will recommend that certain stories be polished up and sent to publications. I know one instructor who said she has some students who could publish fairly early, but that most need a lot of work. She said that by lesson 7 or 8, a lot of her students have learned enough to start submitting.

The instructors will try to take you from where you are to a more advanced level. If you start out with little skills, you won't come out of the course another C.S. Lewis. But, you'll be better than when you started (if you do all your homework!)

Recently I heard a complaint that a few of the instructors are too nice. They want to encourage students, so they don't edit very heavily. If my instructor did that, I'd be on her case or ask to change instructors. They know that some students are very sensitive, so they take that into consideration.

One student I heard from recently, said she was going to quit because there were marks all over her story. She felt so discouraged. I seriously thought about asking her who her instructor was, because I want that! I want my instructor to be truthful and ruthless with my writing. And, she is - I hope!

So, if you do decide to take the course, don't be afraid to speak up if the instructor is too easy. They may have made someone cry in the past and think you need the gentle approach, too. But, I don't think that's the best way to learn.

I still contend that they aren't that expensive compared to other learning opportunities. I was planning to go to some writing workshops this summer, and they are so much more than this course! They last for a few days; ICL last for months (up to two years).
 

Gindee77

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Concerning rejections...I ran across a website in my travels while I was looking into this school that was totally about being rejected by ICL. Here's the website. Now I realize this could have been fabricated, but I got a kick out of it anyway, and it could be the real deal. If nothing else, it will give you a good laugh!

http://www.silverladder.com/literature/humor/intro.htm

And if you don't like your instructor, you can call ICL and change anytime. I think this thread mentioned it earlier on too. I talked to a lady who works for ICL and she said they want you to be happy and will put you with the type of instructor you want. If you feel you need firmer and more forthright critiques, they'll give you an instructor who'll do that. If you want them to go easier on you, they'll give you someone like that or even if you just don't like who you have, maybe there's a personality conflict or something. You can pretty much tell them what you want and they'll try to obligue. I didn't get the idea that you could bounce around from instructor to instuctor...but they try to keep you satisfied. I also have a tendency to want tougher critisizm. I'm the type that can take it and feel I get better, more honest feedback if I'm not being coddled.

I hope this helps. I don't know any of this firsthand but have done my homework.

Gin
 

Gindee77

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P.S. I meant to add...

....I don't think it costs much at all. It averages out to about $100 per college credit and that's not bad at all. Of course, cost is relative to how much you can afford, but if you weigh it against other college costs, it's not too bad.

Gin
 

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I know this is an old thread but I wanted to leave my comment here without starting another one.

I just signed up for the course and I have gotten my course material in the mail. I just completed my first assignment.

I have not gotten any feedback yet but I have been reading through the materials and I do say it is good stuff. Yes, you could get this from a book on children's writing, though I do think it is more through than any of the books I have read.

I can't wait to hear from my instructor to see how things work out but I am glad to know that if she isn't what I expect, I can request someone else.

I think things will work out fine though.
 

Rane

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I recently joined too, and received my welcome letter...now i'm just waiting on the materials. I'm looking forward to this course after reading this thread.
 

madderblue

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Hello, there, I took the course quite a while ago, ten years or so? I wanted to be a writer and didn't even know what this stuff called plot, charcterization, or point of view was. So I was very excited to get the invite.

It's probably true you can get the information from books or other online courses (maybe cheaper). In retrospect, though,I found what really worked well for me was the assignements with their deadlines. I discovered I'm much more diligent with my writing when I have a direction and a time limit. My teacher got sick half way through and had to quit the institute, so I was lucky to have two different teachers. I really felt I got my money's worth with the one who pushed me more, the one who covered my darling story in red ink.
 

David Goldschmidt

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More to add to this nice long thread....

I graduated from the ICL course and found it to be extremely helpful in terms of content, deadlines, and interactions with a "real" author/editor.
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I'm currently taking the advanced course on writing a novel, mainly to keep me writing! With deadlines, like madderblue said, I do indeed make the time to write. And hearing feedback from an author -- in my case, Nancy Butts -- is very helpful.

DaveG
 

stormie

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Awhile ago, I took the online test, passed, but then saw the amount of money I had to pay. It wasn't feasible for me. I went to the library and took out as many books I could find on writing and writing for children. I searched writer's boards and web sites. Meanwhile, a teacher from ICL called and tried to persuade me to sign-up for the course. She was very nice, and I just told her I couldn't afford it at the time. And that was that. They don't push, which I like.

So, if you have the money, it's something to consider. As others have said, you can switch teachers if you need to.

The one thing I'm not sure about, is if the ICL web site mentions the amount of money you have to pay to take the course. If they don't, they really should be more up-front about it, instead of a future student finding out after they take the test.
 

rdfamily

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My opinion about naysayers...

I'm sure if you wanted to be a scientist, you could check out as many books on science and do as much research as possible on the internet. (Or you could stay at a Holiday Inn Express! J/K) But that doesn't mean that you'll learn what you need at the pace that you should learn it, in the context in which it should be taken with lessons on how it's applicable to life or career.

Obviously not all approaches work for all writers (it IS unfair to compare science to a creative art IMO), but I too am one who has a difficult time starting myself and making time in the day to write (with three kids, one on the way, and a career soldier as a husband). But I thrive under deadlines, which is why I believe this course is good for me. I was accepted a few years ago, but due to several losses in my family in a very short amount of time (parents and two still births) and a deployment somewhere in there, I never did take the course. I called and explained the situation, and was never hassled by the school. I DID, however, take several online courses with a college for a business degree and really found that my passion was writing, not what my original goal was with that program. I had major complaints about my counselor and instructors and was never given the courtesey of hearing my side, much less a change that was condusive to my learning style. This prompted me to not return, so here I am again, signing up for something I'd rather be doing anyway.
 

stormie

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Writing is creative. Far different from studying science text books. Books on writing are guides, not gospel truth. The ability to write is innate. What the books do, is help put the new writer on the right track. So do web sites for writers. Verla Kay and Harold Underdown are two web sites that are excellent.

And also, what you get out of a writing course (and I took those in college, too), is only as good as the teacher. I had good ones and absolutely terrible ones. At least with ICL, you can request a different teacher. I just didn't have the money, but worked hard at writing and writing well.
 

rdfamily

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I didn't mean to imply that I disagreed with your method. It wouldn't be one that works well for me. However, I did intend to aim my comment towards the mentality of many of the other posts prior from others that suggest that all one would need to do is check some books out and ask for opinions from others on messageboards and they'd get the same experience. It does work for some, but not all, and I think that should be respected. (not saying you don't)

I completely agree with you about getting out of a class what a teacher is able to put into it. Which is why I appreciate the instructors at this institute compared to those hired by colleges...I have a friend who is an English teacher (one of her courses is a composition course) at a local CC, and she got the job a year after completing her Bachelor's in English. That was all she needed to qualify her for the position. I've heard her talk about how many times she didn't even read what was turned in, as long as they met her requirements! EEK! She's actually quit the job since having a baby, and looks back thinking how she must have cheated those student...I agreed with her.

My mom tried to complete her degree before she passed away from cancer, and her last teacher was absolutely horrible. Instead of giving my mom good grades for meeting requirements on reports (a Children's Lit course, btw), she docked her because she didn't subsitute her own information in the "example" she'd given the class. Essentially she was punished for being creative and original. It was that experience that convinced her it wasn't worth it to go through such stress during the last months of her life.

Wow, I did ramble, didn't I? I apologize. Anyway, I didn't mean to offend you if that's what happened. However, I take offense to those that try to convince others that "all you really have to do is..." or "it's the same as..." Maybe for them, but not for people like myself. (note: quotes not taken literally, I don't have time to go back and search for them)
 

majiklmoon

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Well,

I took their test and sent it in, and now I'm waiting. I'm curious as to the cost, though. My ex just lost his job again, and that means not much in the way of child support coming through.
 

Inspired

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When you get the stuff, call the student services number and see what they offer you. I believe there's a shorter course that's a little cheaper, or you could do payments, or you could wait until a better time.
 

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I wasn't too shocked by the price. When I applied the first time, I couldn't afford it. When I applied again, I could afford it easily and I am using the monthly payment method.

I did get my first assignment back and I am very pleased with what my instructor has said. As usual, my head swelled up that I thought she would say it was THE BEST story every. lol I think I would have been disappointed though to get a pat on the back type of teacher. She clearly knows her stuff and what editors want. She was able to pick apart my story reasonably. There was enough 'good job' comments mixed in with the 'here is what I think needs work' stuff that it made me want to say thank you and rewrite like she suggested.

I do look forward to what she says about my next assignment. I think having the instructor work with you on your materials is the best. I'd have to pay way more to get this from someone else.
 

majiklmoon

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Well, I received my packet from them today, and the price isn't as horrible as it could be, but I still need to think seriously.

I need to contact them about this college credit thing. For a 'fee' they can mail my transcripts to a college or to my school board for certification purposes. Why can't they just give me a copy of my transcripts like have my my grad school and undergrad schools.
 

janetbellinger

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majiklmoon said:
Well, I received my packet from them today, and the price isn't as horrible as it could be, but I still need to think seriously.

I need to contact them about this college credit thing. For a 'fee' they can mail my transcripts to a college or to my school board for certification purposes. Why can't they just give me a copy of my transcripts like have my my grad school and undergrad schools.

I took their test in 1990 or 91, and they said I rated in the top percentile or some thing, and that I really owed it to myself to take the course, and become a children's writer. I wondered if they told everybody the same thing. The course seemed awfully expensive at the time, and also, I just didn't believe their claim about my writing being *** good as they claimed. I didn't sign up and for several months, they sent me letters trying to persuade me to take the course. Finally, the Registrar called, and tried to convince me to sign up. I told her I'd decided to take another course, at the Ottawa Writing School, which had a broader scope, because I wasn't really sure if Children's Lit was the genre for me. But I hadn't been prepared for the zest with which ICL would pursue me. It seemed pretty high pressure, for an academic institution. Good luck to you, if you decide to take the course.

Janet
 

majiklmoon

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I still don't know what i'll do. LIke I said, a lot depends on the "college credits" as an educator, I need to take classes and workshops to keep up my certification (most of which I have to pay for) so if this can be applied ot my clock hours, it's good, but I want them to send ME a transcripts
 

klgoing

Lots to think about

This whole discussion is fascinating. I'm a published author of books for teens and children, and I used to work in publishing at a literary agency. I've been considering applying to teach at the Children's Institute. I feel like I might have a lot to offer (I've also done freelance editing and worked as a manager of an independent bookstore, so I've seen publishing from almost every angle!) however, I've had some of the same concerns that people in this forum are voicing -- mostly about their marketing and the reputation of the program.

I've been asking around about the program and on the whole I've heard great things. They've had many wonderful teachers, including Lois Lowry, who I so admire...

I wonder if the program is aware of the, shall we say, *tarnish* that their aggressive marketing inspires? People see through advertising so easily these days and if it actually turns off potential students and teachers to what seems like a solid program, that's a shame.
 

Fern

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You may have seen by my way earlier post in this thread that I had a dose of their "aggressive" marketing some years ago. I applied . . . I know its been more than 16 years because my daughter wasn't yet born & she is now 16.

Getting to the present point . . .this past week I received a letter from them saying they had found my name in their "purge" file, etc., etc.

At the end of the letter (just like what my kids bring home from school to be signed and returned) they added a statement with a place for signature to be returned to them. It reads:

"Please purge my name from your file and discard it. I've given up on my dreams I might have had about writing for children."
Lists my name and address and provides a signature line.

I find this offensive. That second sentence was totally unnecessary, not to mention condescending. In the past their material has said such things as I must not be serious about my desire to write and that sort of thing. They may very well offer a great course. However, I can't get past what I consider "insulting" marketing strategy.
 

majiklmoon

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that is pretty callous, and if it were me, I'd tell them so.

I've been happy with the way they've treated me. They haven't been TOO aggessive, and the cost isn't TOO high, so I'm giving it a whirl. And they now accept assignments via email vs. snail mail, so I'm happy abou that.
 

janetbellinger

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It is very insulting. I found them overly aggressive too, about the same length of time, ago. Perhaps you should reply with a space for them to sign that they are committed to exploitive and callous marketing strategies.
 

Jamesaritchie

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Fern said:
"Please purge my name from your file and discard it. I've given up on my dreams I might have had about writing for children."
Lists my name and address and provides a signature line.

I find this offensive. That second sentence was totally unnecessary, not to mention condescending. In the past their material has said such things as I must not be serious about my desire to write and that sort of thing. They may very well offer a great course. However, I can't get past what I consider "insulting" marketing strategy.

I imagine many find this line offfensive, but for many more it apparently works very well. It makes them reconsider and sign up fpr the course. It's pretty difficult to convince anyone to give up a marketing strategy that has proven successful, and this one has.