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Cacoethes Publishing House, LLC

c2ckim

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Victoria, You've seen the Cacoethes contract. It states that if the publisher is legally judged bankrupt ot liquidates its assests, the contract shall be termindated at the option of the other party upon written notice delivered by certified mail or other reciepted delivery service...
Doesn't that mean that if Cacoethes goes under the contract is terminated and we gets the rights back?
 

veinglory

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I don't think that is possible. At the time of bankruptcy all the companies assets are seized whether they say so or not--and in fact that can apply for some month prior to the bakruptcy. That is what the Triskelion collapse taught many authors.
 
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victoriastrauss

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Bankruptcy clauses in publishing contracts often aren't enforceable, because a bankruptcy court may consider the publisher's existing contracts to be assets that could help pay off creditors. Even if the contracts are eventually judged to be worthless, everything will be frozen until the court makes a decision.

However, it would be atypical for a little press like Cacoethes to declare bankruptcy. Declaring bankruptcy is complicated and it isn't cheap. It's easier just to disappear--which in fact is what most troubled small publishers do, with or without returning authors' rights.

I usually suggest to authors who want out of their contracts with any publisher to start by simply asking to be released. Often the publisher will reject or ignore such a request, but sometimes they'll see that an unhappy author isn't a good thing, and will agree to let you go.

- Victoria
 

anon

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Did you bother to contact your publisher?

Instead of fishing around for information from potential bitter authors who are simply slandering the company, or who were rejected and have not gotten over it, why wouldn't you simply contact the publisher directly and talk to them about your concerns? That would be the first step for me. What about you?

Furthermore, I happen to have a lot of information about that company, which is a fairly new firm, and the majority of the negative press they receive is unfounded.

As for the clause regarding disparagement, they are in the process now of filing legal action against 2 of the authors who have made the poor judgment of making slanderous statements against them.

I have some questions for you: is your book done? Is it ready to go out? Have you started promoting your material? Are you nervous based on personal experience, or simply because of hearsay?

Again, I think it would be in your best interest to first contact your publisher and then go from there.
 

BenPanced

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Many of the people on this thread happen to be published authors and have years of experience in many areas within the publishing business. Ask them.
 

Mac H.

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I am proud to be a Cacoethes writer, the company has been kind to me and they've fulfilled all their responsibilities. Furthermore, I had a lawyer look over my contract and he told me that the contract is standard for the industry ...
Canadian Writer,

It's good that you are happy with your contract. You should thank the people here for that ... as you know Cacoethes updated the contract (Clause 2.f) in response to Victoria's comments.

You could thank her by sending her a nice email.

I'm guessing that the 'non-disparagement' clause has been removed? The lawyer would have noticed that it is incredibly non-standard!

BTW, It is curious that you and another person both suddenly posted on this thread within an hour of each other, when this thread hadn't seen any activity for a while.

Good luck!

Mac
(PS: Although 'anon' pointed out that they claim to be suing some of their authors. This is CLEARLY not flattering information for the company - and should send any potential authors running for cover. I'm suspect that it wasn't the aim of anon's post, though. With friends like that, who needs enemies?

I wouldn't believe the claim about suing though ...)
 
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c2ckim

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I too am a Cacoethes author and I have to agree with Canadian Writer. The people at Cacoethes have been very good to work with. I almost didn't sign the second contract with them due to clause 2f but they were willing to change that. I have one book coming out in two weeks and a second book coming out next summer followed shortly by a third book.
I'm fairly new to all of this and it is a learning process for me, so I have asked the other authors here for some help and suggestions. That's the great part about this site you guys are willing to lend your guidence to those of us that ask for it.
 

brainstorm77

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If you're happy with everything, I wish you all the luck :)
 

anon

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Again I ask...

Why wouldn't you simply contact the publisher directly and talk to them about your concerns? Is your book done? Is it ready to go out? Have you started promoting your material? Are you nervous based on personal experience, or simply because of hearsay?
 

cant

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Why wouldn't you simply contact the publisher directly and talk to them about your concerns? Is your book done? Is it ready to go out? Have you started promoting your material? Are you nervous based on personal experience, or simply because of hearsay?

If this was directed at me, I just came on here to ask the opinion of some really knowledgeable people who are far more educated in these matters than I. I don't think it's such a bad idea to ask professionals for advice before speaking to someone who you are afraid you might have a problem with. I wasn't fishing for bitter authors, which is why I didn't name the publisher in the first place. In fact, I was reluctant to say the name of the publisher, which I think is clearly evident.

I'm not going to answer any of your other questions since apparently there are slander lawsuits being fired up!
 

Mac H.

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.. they are in the process now of filing legal action against 2 of the authors who have made the poor judgment of making slanderous statements against them.
Anon,

I appreciate that you are happy them. But why should authors use a publisher that is filing legal actions against some of their authors !?

There are other publishers. Good publishers.

Given that there are many good publishers, life is too short to work with ones who tend to file lawsuits against people who work with them ! (Assuming that your lawsuit claim is true)

Good luck!

Mac
 
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Momento Mori

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anon:
Instead of fishing around for information from potential bitter authors who are simply slandering the company, or who were rejected and have not gotten over it, why wouldn't you simply contact the publisher directly and talk to them about your concerns?

Hi, anon, and welcome to AW.

This is a public message board where people are able to ask questions about publishers, agents etc and share information. As you'll see if you go back through the thread, there have been several Cacoethes authors who have posted here to report being happy about their experience. There have also been people who have expressed concerns about the company. Again, if you go back through the discussion here you can see that in some respects Cacoethes was apparently not initially conducting its business in a way that was consistent with industry practice and although these practices subsequently changed, there are still questions about how the company operates and whether that is good for authors.

Although I agree that contacting the company direct to raise concerns is one way of getting answers, posting questions here and asking for opinions from people who are experienced in the industry (either from the publishing or writing side) is a good way of verifying whether the answers given should give comfort or send up warning signals.

anon:
I happen to have a lot of information about that company, which is a fairly new firm, and the majority of the negative press they receive is unfounded.

That's great. Can I ask how you came to be in possession of that information and are you able to share specific information that answers some of the questions or concerns highlighted in this board?

anon:
As for the clause regarding disparagement, they are in the process now of filing legal action against 2 of the authors who have made the poor judgment of making slanderous statements against them.

As others have said, the fact that there is an anti-disparagement clause in the contract is a cause for concern but the fact that the company is apparently seeking to rely on it is a definite worry. Why would any publisher seek to obtain damages from its authors? From a reputational point of view, most publishers would prefer to keep internal disagreements out of the public eye by simply terminating the relevant contract and walking away.

Are you able to share where these court actions are being filed and whether they have been filed already or are pending?

anon:
is your book done? Is it ready to go out? Have you started promoting your material? Are you nervous based on personal experience, or simply because of hearsay?

Apologies, but I don't understand the purpose of these questions. Some of the people posting here are already published authors, others are under agent and submitting and some (like me) working to finish novels ready to go through the grinder of the submissions process.

Canadian writer:
I am proud to be a Cacoethes writer, the company has been kind to me and they've fulfilled all their responsibilities.

Hi, Canadian writer, and welcome to AW.

Although it's great that you're happy with Cacoethes and how they've treated you, the issue isn't so much whether they treat you with kindness and respect, but whether they are geared up to make the sales necessary to make your book a success. That's the reason for this discussion.

Can I ask what led you to Cacoethes?

Canadian writer:
I had a lawyer look over my contract and he told me that the contract is standard for the industry.

Okay, was your lawyer an IP and publishing specialist and did you negotiate any changes to the contract offered to you?

Canadian writer:
do you love being a writer? Does it make you happy? I think all this talk of clauses and non-disparagement is fine, but good writers with real talent and passion will rise to the top regardless of things like this.

I'm sad to say, but not necessarily. If you're a good writer with a 'bad' publisher (and I'm not saying that Cacoethes is a bad publisher), then it doesn't matter how excellent your book is because if your publisher isn't geared up to make sales in the appropriate venues, the chances are people won't be able to buy it to find out how good it is.

There are plenty of people here who write because they love it. I write because I love it (despite the fact that there are times when it makes me as frustrated as hell). That doesn't mean that I'm not also hoping to make a little money off it. Having gone through the discussion, I've not seen any reference to Cacoethes paying an advance for manuscripts. That's the usual way that authors can benefit financially from their work and it's a good sign with a small publisher.

I wish you luck for both your books.

MM
 

veinglory

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It is informative to know several authors are happy with a publisher. It is equally informative to know that said authors, using noticeably similar lanaguge, discourage people from talking about the publisher, disparage those who do as novices and slanderers--and that said publisher sues their own authors for slander. I, personally, don't think the 'cone of silence' or the 'defenders the faith' approaches are good for PR--they are more often associated with presses that go bad than those that are a good choice.
 
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Like several other authors, I am also contracted with Cacoethes and have not had any problems whatsoever. They are quick to answer questions. The manuscripts go through at least four rounds of editing. So far, I am more than satisfied working with this publisher. Rather than take every little thing I read in a serious manner, I tend to keep a positive attitude when venturing into something new while I form my own opinion from my experiences. I have faith in this new publisher.
 
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Momento Mori

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Hi, Dreamer, is your book coming out/available in print format or is it an Ebook?

Stupidly, I made a comment above about not seeing anything about Cacoethes paying advances. Having checked out their submissions page (which I should have done before), they do say that they don't pay advances. My bad - obviously I need more coffee. However, the following did catch my eye:

Cacoethes Web Site:
royalties are paid on the net amount of each sale concluded within each calendar quarter.

I'd always understood that it was better for the author for royalties to be paid on the cover price for the book. Are any of the Cacoethes authors here able to share how the net amount is defined in their contract? In addition, I know a few people here have been published with other Epublishers - is it normal for royalties on those books to be calculated on net prices?

Cacoethes Web Site:
We pay royalties based on contract from those sales originating from the Cacoëthes Publishing House web site.

Well ... I'd hope that wouldn't need to be spelled out on the website. I'd expect a publisher to pay royalties regardless of where the sales have been made (except of course, second hand sales), but it does tie in with this:

Cacoethes Web Site:
We pay royalties dependent on contract sales minus distribution costs for those sales that originate from various distribution channels we utilize.

Are distribution costs included in the calculation of the net amount or an additional deduction? Do the contracts specify what these costs will be and which distribution channels they refer to? Again, I wouldn't expect this to apply in the case of Ebooks, but maybe someone with more experience in that field could clarify for me.

MM
 

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This is a royalty paying publisher. Otherwise, I would not have signed with them. My book will be in print within one month of ebook availability.
 

Sheryl Nantus

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This is a royalty paying publisher. Otherwise, I would not have signed with them. My book will be in print within one month of ebook availability.

I don't know anything about this publisher - do they have a distributor or are you responsible for getting the books into the stores and onto the shelves?
 

Momento Mori

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Dreamer:
This is a royalty paying publisher. Otherwise, I would not have signed with them.

Yes and I've already acknowledged that Cacoethes states that it pays royalties. However, there are royalties and there are royalties and my concern is how Cacoethes calculates the royalties that it pays to its authors - specifically the fact that authors will get less if royalties are calculated on a net price than they would if it was calculated on the cover price.

In particular, it seems to me that for a publisher that is not paying any advance for the work that it publishes, it's a little harsh for them to only be paying royalties on a net amount (however that is defined). In addition, I would be particularly concerned if this net calculation also applied to Ebook publication because it seems to me (and I hold up my hands to not having had any direct experience with Epublishing) that the costs involved in publishing an Ebook should already be reflected in the price (and should not, in fact be significant).

MM
 

veinglory

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They are an ebook publisher, and in ebook publishing there is very little reason to have a priori faith in a press. The great majority of ebook publishers are not going to sell more than a handful of books. No amount of faith on the part of the author, or kindness on the part of the staff, is going to change that. When provided with options including kind presses that sell few books, and those that sell many, I do not think it should be hard to choose.

Payment of royalties on net is not standard in epublishing and is open to abuse. To be competitive with other presses the amount paid after deductions should be easy to calculate and equivalent to what others pay based on cover (e.g. 35-50%).

The proof of the epublisher is in the selling. So I would encourage writers now displaying such hope and fidelity to the press to report how it pays off for them in terms of their first month sales figures. (ERECsite.com/veinglory at gmail.com)
 

Momento Mori

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Canadian writer, the fact that Harper Collins was interested enough to request a full MS based on your partial suggests that you're writing is good enough to get a commercial publisher who will pay you an advance for your work. Although I'm sure that Cacoethes Publishing has purely honourable intentions, I would be very surprised if you made a tenth of what you would have made with Harper Collins with them.

It's a classic newbie mistake to start querying a manuscript that isn't completed, but a forgiveable one. I don't understand what your hurry is to get published. Surely it has to be better in the long run to secure a solid, advance-paying commercial deal with a publisher like HC, than to take a chance on an outfit like Cacoethes who only pay royalties and whose distribution is in question? If nothing else, having a deal on the table with Harper Collins (assuming you got that far) would be something you could use to get an agent.

Canadian writer:
It's not so much that I have faith in my publisher: it's that I have faith in myself. I have a master plan, and I don't mind starting small.

But why start small if there's a possibility of getting into the big leagues? Having faith in yourself is great (and I'm not knocking you), but launching a successful book is difficult enough without restricting yourself to a publisher who doesn't seem able to get your books in stores.

MM
 

Sheryl Nantus

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They do indeed publish actual books, and their authors do signings at Borders and all that.

I'm just curious - at which Borders did you see their books? I'm originally from Toronto and can't recollect ever seeing any of theirs on the shelves, though I could be mistaken.

Do they list a distributor? Because without one you're going to have a hard time getting any bookstores to stock your book, other than ones you personally contact and plead with. Been there, done that.

And no, saying the book will be listed with Baker & Taylor and Ingram's doesn't count - those are only warehouses; not sales staff who will get your book into stores.