Backlit Mechanical Keyboards

Perks · Sep 21, 2014

Any opinions on backlit mechanical keyboards vs. not backlit?

I want a mechanical keyboard as a little present to myself before I start in on a new project. I'm a terrible typist and I tried out a mechanical keyboard and was a little more accurate than normal. I also really liked the way it felt and sounded.

Now, I'm not a gamer -- at all. The backlit keys look really neat, but I can't tell if it's worth anything outside the ohshiny factor.

Opinions?

alleycat · Sep 21, 2014

Be sure to buy one where you can try it before you buy it. Some of those keyboards have flat-faced keys, which I don't think I would like.

Osulagh · Sep 21, 2014

If you need to look down at the keyboard and really need light on the keys, or you like the flashy lights, then get one. Though, you will be forced to a gaming keyboard with some setbacks.

I'm In favor of more work-orientated mechys, like my HHKBpro2 with otaku keys.

If you need help with mechys, ask away.

Perks · Sep 21, 2014

A $300 keyboard! YIKES!!!

I just looked it up and fainted. I definitely don't need all the gaming extras. That's for sure. I do look down on the keyboard - like I said, even after all these years, I'm a lousy typist.

Osulagh · Sep 21, 2014

Perks said:
A $300 keyboard! YIKES!!!

I just looked it up and fainted. I definitely don't need all the gaming extras. That's for sure. I do look down on the keyboard - like I said, even after all these years, I'm a lousy typist.

Ahem, $275 with shipping... and a fancy USB cable... and better feet... in all $300. Ya know what, who's counting? Numbers... stupid numbers...

It was a gift, that I would have paid for myself if it hadn't been given to me. Absolute best keyboard I've typed on by far.

All back-lit keyboards use MX-Cherry or Kale switches, so you don't have much of a choice otherwise outside of their varieties (there's no such thing as Topre backlit switches

)

Want my suggestion?

Mechy keyboards can be quite loud. There's MX-Cherry Blues which have two clicks to them; one mid-way, and the bottoming clack. They also have a "accuation" bump around the first click that you feel. MX-Cherry Browns have the same bump (which tells your fingers when the switch is activated), but with no first click and only the bottoming clack. They're much quieter, and if you want more quiet, you can do the "O-ring mod". Go for the browns if you don't know which one--best all around starter.

Most gaming keyboards come with MX-Cherry Reds and Blacks, which are linear--meaning no mid-bumb. I find these to be a bit boring, so I don't recommend them for tying.

Then there's MX-Cherry Clears, Greens, and mixes, but I suggest avoiding these unless you REALLY want them.

IMO, the best back-lit keyboards are made by Ducky ( http://www.duckychannel.com.tw/en/index.html ). They avoid a lot of the "gamer" fonts, board styles, odd key sizes. At most, they might have a light-up snake on the space bar.
I don't know where you're located, but NCIX (the largest computer/electronics store in Canada, ships US) sells a large variety of them:
http://www.ncixus.com/search/?categoryid=0&q=Ducky+Shine
You have a choice of all kinds of key switches, and colors. I suggest going with a brighter light color as I find the darker ones can be a bit hard on the eyes. My favorite is the white because it just goes with everything. There's also "87key" styles which mean the number pad is cut off--if you don't use one, I suggest going with these as they give you more room on your desk and sometimes better posture.
I suggest:
http://www.ncixus.com/products/?sku=90662&vpn=DK9087S3-BUSALAAW1&manufacture=Ducky
http://www.ncixus.com/products/?sku=87074&vpn=DK9008S3-BUSALAAW1&manufacture=Ducky

Cyia · Sep 21, 2014

I actually just bought a Black Widow gaming keyboard (backlit green) and I love it. The pitch-slant of the board itself is perfect, and the click that goes along with the keys is great. I seriously love it so far, despite the oddity of the random lowercase "r" on the board face.

And since it's not a high-end keyboard, it's only about $100 as opposed to $300, plus a play-through jack on the side for a usb or headset.

Jamesaritchie · Sep 22, 2014

What am I missing here? I like backlit keyboards, and have several, but only one mechanical. The run of the mill ones cost about twenty-five bucks, and I caught the mechanical gamer on sale for sixty-nine. I balked at that, but finally gave in. I could almost buy a new laptop for three hundred bucks. What's special about a three hundred dollar keyboard? What does it do that a cheaper one won't?

Osulagh · Sep 22, 2014

Jamesaritchie said:
What's special about a three hundred dollar keyboard? What does it do that a cheaper one won't?

What's so special about a $70 keyboard as opposed to a $5 bargain-bin one?

A $300 keyboard will do nothing more than a $5 one will. But then you have to question what you're willing to pay for what interests you.

A mechanical keyboard offers a better typing experience with different switches, more reliability, styles, customizability, and quality.

With Topre keyboards, they are typically more expensive because only a few companies make them. I believe only Topre produces Realforce, PFU put out Happy Haking Keyboards, and Cooler Master is putting out a board soon.

The cheapest Topre boards you can buy is the Realforce Type Heaven at $150. It gets you a decent board with standard switches and standard everything. It's cheaply built compared to the rest of the line up. Cooler Master's Novatouch is rumored to start at $200 and it gets you a bit higher quality, and also uses MX-Cherry key caps.

Realforce start out at about $220 and go up. Happy Hacking Keyboards go from there.

So what do they get you?

First off, the build of the board is much better. Realforce and HHKB boards are built like tanks. With Realforce Type Heaven, you're getting a cheaply built board.

Second, the key switches. Topre switches are more expensive to product because of high quality control standards. They have the longest life-time of any switches, and IMO the best feel. When I moved from membrane to mechanical, I felt the difference and moving back feels terrible (although, some vintage membranes are amazing). After I switched to topre switches, I can't go back to MX-Cherry, Alps, Buckling Spring, and others. Topre just feel more refine and smooth. However, they do not have many variants. They have a few different weights between 30g to 55g. There's a regular and silent option (which is a rip-off on HHKB, but not on Realforce. You can mod to make the silent version). Other than that, they all have the same feel. With Realforce Type Heaven, you only get 45g and no other options.

Third, they have variable weighs. Meaning some keyboards--like mine--have a arranged order of different weighted keys. This means the keys in the middle of the board are harder to activate than the ones on the side, so ring-fingers and pinkies don't work harder. And some keys like the ESC key are the hardest to press. This does make a difference as there's less fatigue for your whole hand and less mis-presses. Realforce Type Heaven don't have this at all.

Fourth, PBT keycaps. These key caps are stronger, more resistant to wear, and last longer. It takes a very long time to wear the texture off the top of the keys to make them smooth. For example, I've had a Daskeyboard and after three months I wore all the keycaps smooth because they were using the cheaper ABS caps. With my HHKB, I haven't started to wear the top of the caps after a year. (The only negative here is that HHKB, not Realforce, don't have PBT space bars. Sucks) PBT are far more expensive: A set of ABS caps come in around $20-50. PBT start at $70 and go to $150. Realforce Type Heaven uses ABS.

Fifth, for HHKB the layout is amazing. Backspace/delete is moved down a row--above the enter key--so it's easier to reach (set standard as delete, and you toggle it to backspace). CAPS LOCK is removed, finally, and replaced with CTRL--this makes a ton of difference. There's some keys moved around like ~ to the right to accommodate for the layout. and a FN is added so you can use the arrow-keys (and for Mac users, you can have media keys). Realforce Type Heaven has standard layout--like the other Realforce boards.

I'm a keyboard enthusiast, but I ain't crazy. Trust me on that. There's some people out there that order aluminum bodies ($150), specialized keycaps ($150-200), special order cables ($10-50), a custom leather wrist pads ($50) with a keyboard--most likely a MX-Cherry board, so add $100-150 to it all. I'm not big into customization, but I want a good typing experience. I have the money, my keyboard is my main tool for writing, why not spend money on a good one?

kuwisdelu · Sep 22, 2014

Osulagh said:
And some keys like the ESC key are the hardest to press.
...
CAPS LOCK is removed, finally, and replaced with CTRL--this makes a ton of difference.

I'm guessing whoever designed it preferred emacs to vim.

Osulagh · Sep 22, 2014

Oh, Perks. I forgot to tell you: I wasn't the strongest typest in the world for the longest time. Computer classes did nothing for me, and when I started writing I forced myself to type it all out because I knew I would be doing so sooner or later. Seven years later I got the point that I could type at a decent pace while looking.

Then I got my first mechanical keyboard, a Daskeyboard Ultimate--which the "Ultimate" part is for the blank keycaps (I do not recommend Daskeyboards today. Overpriced, cheaply made). I was scared shit-less because of the blank keys, but I stuck to it for a good while and soon I didn't have to look down at the keyboard. I learned how to touch type. This greatly improved my typing skills. I went from 20wpm to over 100wpm at times. I cruise along at a good 50wpm most of the time.

While you can do this right now by forcing yourself to not look down, the cold move of going directly to blank keycaps forces you to learn. With backlit keyboards, I find that I'm attracted to look at the keyboard (because it's glowing!) and that slows me down.

Just a thought.

I wouldn't mind getting a backlit keyboard for gaming though. While I know all the keys when I'm on the homerow, when I'm on WASD I don't know any keys, so I have to look down--to my surprise, blank keycaps.

Osulagh · Sep 22, 2014

kuwisdelu said:
I'm guessing whoever designed it preferred emacs to vim.

Yep. It was built almost exclusively for programming. "Haking" is the key term here.

kuwisdelu · Sep 22, 2014

Osulagh said:
Yep. It was built almost exclusively for programming. "Haking" is the key term here.

Too bad. I don't use either much, but when I do, I prefer vim, and I don't fancy breaking my finger on my ESC key. :tongue

Osulagh · Sep 22, 2014

kuwisdelu said:
Too bad. I don't use either much, but when I do, I prefer vim, and I don't fancy breaking my finger on my ESC key.

Vim is nice.

The weight on the ESC key isn't that much. Most keys are 45g, and outer ones go to 35g. The ESC key is 55g, which is only two more nickles of force. You can tell the difference, but you won't go breaking your fingers or have a good work out on it--if it would, I'd have one muscular pinky.

randywrite · Sep 22, 2014

Perks said:
Any opinions on backlit mechanical keyboards vs. not backlit?

I want a mechanical keyboard as a little present to myself before I start in on a new project. I'm a terrible typist and I tried out a mechanical keyboard and was a little more accurate than normal. I also really liked the way it felt and sounded.

Now, I'm not a gamer -- at all. The backlit keys look really neat, but I can't tell if it's worth anything outside the ohshiny factor.

Opinions?

I have the Ducky Shine 3 with green backlit keys. Also has Cherry MX Black keys, the feel is orgasmic. And I use it for gaming and writing. I needed the backlighting more for the typing, because I have bad vision, and it's very useful. The Ducky goes for $150 but I got it on sale for $120 plus free shipping. Here's the link:

http://www.duckychannel.com.tw/en/Shine_3_DK9008.html

Osulagh said:
A mechanical keyboard offers a better typing experience with different switches, more reliability, styles, customizability, and quality.

This right here.

Katrar · Sep 22, 2014

Don't let "gaming keyboard" hold you back, what that phrase means - for the most part - is higher quality keystroke mechanisms and other general purpose improvements. No, you'll probably not use the programmable function keys, but the rest of the keyboard will be of much higher quality than your traditional office keyboard.

Katrar · Sep 22, 2014

randywrite said:
I have the Ducky Shine 3 with green backlit keys. Also has Cherry MX Black keys, the feel is orgasmic. And I use it for gaming and writing. I needed the backlighting more for the typing, because I have bad vision, and it's very useful. The Ducky goes for $150 but I got it on sale for $120 plus free shipping. Here's the link:

http://www.duckychannel.com.tw/en/Shine_3_DK9008.html

This right here.

Ducky does make an excellent keyboard. Right up there with top of the line Razers (although I'm aware Razer has gone down a bit in quality since its small production enthusiast early days... their $$$ stuff is still pretty good).

meowzbark · Sep 22, 2014

I use a wireless backlit keyboard. It uses a standard USB cord to recharge and I recharge every couple of weeks. It cost me about $100 and works great for writing. I like having the keys light up. I find myself fumbling less if I'm working in less than optimal light. Also, the keys aren't that difficult to pop off and clean (helpful when you have kids who like sticky foods).

I used to have a wireless mouse as well, but my kid kept stealing it from my desk.

Here's a link to the Logitech keyboard:

http://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/wireless-illuminated-keyboard-k800

Reziac · Sep 23, 2014

And do NOT install any Logitech "drivers" that the keyboard will agree to work without. Plug it in first and find out. Logitech's so-called drivers (actually a sort of settings dashboard) are notoriously bad for making the computer take a looooooooong time to start up, and often cause massive instability. They make good hardware, but their programmers should be keelhauled.

And emacs is the editor of the devil.

Jamesaritchie · Sep 23, 2014

Osulagh said:
What's so special about a $70 keyboard as opposed to a $5 bargain-bin one?

A $300 keyboard will do nothing more than a $5 one will. But then you have to question what you're willing to pay for what interests you.

A mechanical keyboard offers a better typing experience with different switches, more reliability, styles, customizability, and quality.

With Topre keyboards, they are typically more expensive because only a few companies make them. I believe only Topre produces Realforce, PFU put out Happy Haking Keyboards, and Cooler Master is putting out a board soon.

The cheapest Topre boards you can buy is the Realforce Type Heaven at $150. It gets you a decent board with standard switches and standard everything. It's cheaply built compared to the rest of the line up. Cooler Master's Novatouch is rumored to start at $200 and it gets you a bit higher quality, and also uses MX-Cherry key caps.

Realforce start out at about $220 and go up. Happy Hacking Keyboards go from there.

So what do they get you?

First off, the build of the board is much better. Realforce and HHKB boards are built like tanks. With Realforce Type Heaven, you're getting a cheaply built board.

Second, the key switches. Topre switches are more expensive to product because of high quality control standards. They have the longest life-time of any switches, and IMO the best feel. When I moved from membrane to mechanical, I felt the difference and moving back feels terrible (although, some vintage membranes are amazing). After I switched to topre switches, I can't go back to MX-Cherry, Alps, Buckling Spring, and others. Topre just feel more refine and smooth. However, they do not have many variants. They have a few different weights between 30g to 55g. There's a regular and silent option (which is a rip-off on HHKB, but not on Realforce. You can mod to make the silent version). Other than that, they all have the same feel. With Realforce Type Heaven, you only get 45g and no other options.

Third, they have variable weighs. Meaning some keyboards--like mine--have a arranged order of different weighted keys. This means the keys in the middle of the board are harder to activate than the ones on the side, so ring-fingers and pinkies don't work harder. And some keys like the ESC key are the hardest to press. This does make a difference as there's less fatigue for your whole hand and less mis-presses. Realforce Type Heaven don't have this at all.

Fourth, PBT keycaps. These key caps are stronger, more resistant to wear, and last longer. It takes a very long time to wear the texture off the top of the keys to make them smooth. For example, I've had a Daskeyboard and after three months I wore all the keycaps smooth because they were using the cheaper ABS caps. With my HHKB, I haven't started to wear the top of the caps after a year. (The only negative here is that HHKB, not Realforce, don't have PBT space bars. Sucks) PBT are far more expensive: A set of ABS caps come in around $20-50. PBT start at $70 and go to $150. Realforce Type Heaven uses ABS.

Fifth, for HHKB the layout is amazing. Backspace/delete is moved down a row--above the enter key--so it's easier to reach (set standard as delete, and you toggle it to backspace). CAPS LOCK is removed, finally, and replaced with CTRL--this makes a ton of difference. There's some keys moved around like ~ to the right to accommodate for the layout. and a FN is added so you can use the arrow-keys (and for Mac users, you can have media keys). Realforce Type Heaven has standard layout--like the other Realforce boards.

I'm a keyboard enthusiast, but I ain't crazy. Trust me on that. There's some people out there that order aluminum bodies ($150), specialized keycaps ($150-200), special order cables ($10-50), a custom leather wrist pads ($50) with a keyboard--most likely a MX-Cherry board, so add $100-150 to it all. I'm not big into customization, but I want a good typing experience. I have the money, my keyboard is my main tool for writing, why not spend money on a good one?

Damn it, I have the terrible feeling I'm going to do something that's probably dumb, and pay a lot of money for a keyboard, just to see what the fuss is all about.

Now, I know about differently weighted keys. I;m not sure this matters to me because I like every key to be as light to the touch as possible. Ideally, I'd like keys that activated as soon as I touched them. This is odd because I learned to type on a manual typewriter, but what can I say? Drives my wife crazy, but that's how I like them.

All those other features sound really great, though, and I have the sneaking suspicion a very expensive keyboard is in my future.

Osulagh · Sep 23, 2014

Jamesaritchie said:
Damn it, I have the terrible feeling I'm going to do something that's probably dumb, and pay a lot of money for a keyboard, just to see what the fuss is all about.

Now, I know about differently weighted keys. I;m not sure this matters to me because I like every key to be as light to the touch as possible. Ideally, I'd like keys that activated as soon as I touched them. This is odd because I learned to type on a manual typewriter, but what can I say? Drives my wife crazy, but that's how I like them.

All those other features sound really great, though, and I have the sneaking suspicion a very expensive keyboard is in my future.

Here's the thing about Topre switches: They have an initial resistance at the top of them. MX-Cherry, Buckling Springs, and Alps have some play like you can feel the spring depress until it starts pushing against you. With Topre, after you get past that initial resistance, the key smoothly falls--like freefalling, but the weight of your finger pushes it down. As soon as you feel that initial resistance end, and the key drops, you've probably activated the key. Whenever I go back to any other switch, that "play" I feel at the top end always disappoints me.
I wouldn't say it feels like a typewriter, but that initial resistance does remind me of typing on one.
Topre switches do start at 45g--the lightest of MX-Cherry--but that resistance I've been on about can make that feel heavier.

You might want to think of them as a bigger, better scissor-switch--like what's on laptops and flat keyboards. The same initial force is there, but the drop is longer and smoother without a mushy bottoming.

With Topre, you won't be instantly amazed. I got them and couldn't wait to feel what the switch felt like. I got it out of the package and typed on it for a bit... then the remorse set in. When I got my Daskeyboard, I could feel the difference like night and day, but Topre felt just a bit better than a good membrane keyboard--and there are very good membrane keyboards out there. Some people said you had to break them in, so I typed on it for a week. Then I was hooked. I don't know of my fingers adjusted or the keyboard was worn in, but it felt really good and still feels the same today.

The only setback I find with Topre switches is that they're all business. You don't get a fun feeling out of them like MX-Cherry, making a ton noise and bouncing off the keys. Topre are made to do a job, and do that job as best as possible.

Any Realforce keyboard would be a great intro to Topre while keeping the same layout. But HHKB keyboards--with a lot of the special features I listed--might be too jarring for most. Like, you will have to get used to the layout--no number pad, no dedicated arrow-keys (have to use the FN key with [;'/ keys as replacement) and the moved keys (look me forever to fine ~ one day).

Perks · Sep 23, 2014

In my research, I think I'm leaning toward the CherryMX Blue switches, because I do like the clickety sound. There are really highend ones out there, but I'm not ready for that kind of investment.

Ideally, I'd like a tenkeyless, CherryMX Blue, backlit keyboard (that's not backlit red - *shudder*) It looks like I'll only be able to get two out of three of those itches scratched if I want to stay in a price range that doesn't make me cry.

I don't type in the dark, so I think I'll probably forgo the backlit keys.

Osulagh · Sep 23, 2014

Yeah, backlit does rack up the price. You could wait to see what Holiday sales will look like.

Corsair and Cooler Master have some cheaper tenkeyless mechys out there--some I've seen on sale around $50 with rebate. You can also look around at Massdrop--they have a lot of Noppoo and KBC on good sales (I've been tempted by those KBC Poker II for a while).

I suggest you look up sound clips from youtube of MX-Cherry switches. Blues make a lot of noise--which can be fun.

Perks · Sep 23, 2014

Osulagh said:
I suggest you look up sound clips from youtube of MX-Cherry switches. Blues make a lot of noise--which can be fun.

That's what I did. I like the blue the best. We shall see.

Thanks so much for all your expertise! I love AW for the the specialist knowledge around here.

Perks · Sep 27, 2014

Okay, so it's Christmas in September. (I didn't want to wait for a new keyboard because it's time for me to start a new project and that other one was just terrible.)

I researched and watched video demos (and listened) and settled on Cherry MX blue switches. Cooler Master makes keyboards with price points that don't hurt as much as others. I decided to forgo the backlighting to save on the bottom line.

I just started using it, but my typing accuracy is already greatly improved. It's nearly impossible to hit multiple keys and the deliberateness of the typing action really helps -- immediately.

So I went from this -

To this -

And less than an hour later, I already know it was a worthy investment.

I just wonder if Cooler Master sells Muses, too?

cmhbob · Sep 27, 2014

Interesting thread to read. Thanks for all the great info. Don't know if I'm going to use any of it with my laptop, but maybe. Eventually.

Backlit Mechanical Keyboards

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