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[Publisher] Ravenous Romance

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Thanks, S, that makes sense.
 

Sakamonda

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I can say with certainty that all the staff editors at Ravenous are always prompt and professional. As far as the anthology editors go, who are all contracted as book authors themselves, rather than as RR staff----how they choose to behave is really up to them as individuals.

I always treat my antho authors the way I'd want to be treated myself. On the other hand, I realize that editors of all stripes are overworked and underpaid, whether they're working at a small press or at Random House.
 
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James D. Macdonald

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James, if royalties were paid to the editor, who then distributed them to the authors of the anthology, would that be written into the contract? Or is it just taken as read?

The contract is the only thing that exists.

I've had contracts for short stories that were between me and the editor, where the publisher wasn't even mentioned.

Without a copy of the contract itself who can say?
 

Sakamonda

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Royalties are not paid to the editor for distribution to the antho authors. Royalties (when they are earned) are paid directly to the antho authors.

This is in the RR contract.
 

Elphaba1977

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Is it normal for the publisher to ask the author to do all the publicity and marketing on their book?

I have a friend who writes for RR and this is what he is being told he has to do.
 

michael_b

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In publishing--even NYC--the author usually has to put in some promotional effort. Ebook publishing is different in that most of the promotion rests on the author's shoulders. The vast majority of the bigger--and some smaller epresses--do some type of promo, be it sending out review copies or running ads in print magazines or online venues.

That being said, not all epresses do promtions and then it's the author that has the entire burden of selling their books.

If your friend's book is a romance of some sort I highly recommend he join some Yahoo groups geared to romance book sales. Here are a few to get him started:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LoveRomancesCafe/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/karendevinkaren/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RomanceLivesForever/

He might also want to try these groups/sites for more information on how and where to promo:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MarketingForRomanceWriters/
http://romancedivas.com/

I hope this helps him. I remember the cold shock of reality after the first book I sold to an epublisher came out and they informed me the bulk of the promo was my job. I had no idea what to do, but some kind and far more experienced authors helped me.

I wish him all the best of luck with his promo and sales.
 

Sakamonda

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These days, authors (especially authors who are early in their careers) are increasingly expected to do the heavy lifting for their marketing and promotion, no matter what size the publisher. (I have a book out with Random House that I had to do most of the marketing on.)

Ravenous does rely on authors to send out review copies, but only after the RR PR department discovered that most review sites/publications that review erotic ebooks respond better to authors sending their books out individually, rather than the Ravenous PR dept. doing it en masse. (Which is weird, but is how it works).

I do almost all my own marketing for all my writing and all my publishers, and have found that this is really essential for building your writing career. Author M.J. Rose has a great course and blog called "Buzz Your Book" directed at training authors how to do this. I would encourage any writer serious about his or her career to follow her example.

Even big NYC print houses have tiny promo budgets (if any budget at all) for many of their debut and midlist authors. If you ever want to get to the frontlist of a big publishing house with a marketing budget to match, expect to do some time in the trenches first.
 

michael_b

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Stacia Kane

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Keep in mind that with ebooks, the individual author's promo matters less than the number of readers who visit the publisher's site. Ebook readers tend to be pretty loyal to one or two publishers; they may visit places like Fictionwise, yes, but it's been the experience of most of my epubbed friends that most promotional efforts don't make much difference.
 

Susan Gable

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but it's been the experience of most of my epubbed friends that most promotional efforts don't make much difference.

And just to add to that -- it's been the experience of most of my print pubbed friends that most promotional efforts don't make much difference, either.

:)

FWIW.

Susan G.
 

Sakamonda

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And just to add to that -- it's been the experience of most of my print pubbed friends that most promotional efforts don't make much difference, either.

----Not to be contrarian, but my efforts have made a HUGE difference. It's all about how and where you do it.
 

Brindle Chase

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----Not to be contrarian, but my efforts have made a HUGE difference. It's all about how and where you do it.


If its any confirmation, I read your book, Market for Love, because of your postings here! *lol* ... off topic? yeah, a little. But I think it serves your point. An author needs to be involved in promo.. including visiting places where readers and authors meet online! =)
 

michael_b

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Keep in mind that with ebooks, the individual author's promo matters less than the number of readers who visit the publisher's site. Ebook readers tend to be pretty loyal to one or two publishers; they may visit places like Fictionwise, yes, but it's been the experience of most of my epubbed friends that most promotional efforts don't make much difference.

Once you're established this may be true, but when you're new getting out there and chatting with the readers -does- make a difference. I sold quite a lot of books through live and list chats, often while the chats are in progress.

Now that a larger number of readers know who I am, chats are less important than getting more books out.

As they say, your mileage may vary, but that's been my experience with promo across many groups with several different publishers.
 

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I am not sure how a single writer can know how much their promotion affects their sales, not having release the exact same books without promotion in a parallel universe. In my experience authors attribute success and failure) to their promotion, but there is no real way to know how true this is. And other factors are typically larger in scale.

I can say that looking at sales figures within the same (small) press the variation is surprisingly small. So promotion can have a significant effect but it is typically modest in relation to the effect of choice of format, genre and of course publisher.

So I think a publisher looking at their authors will be very aware that those doing a lot of promo are doing better. And author looking across publisher will see that choosing the right one is the top priority and no amount of promo will make up for a bad choice. The effect of promo is synergistic with making the right choice.
 
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victoriastrauss

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I am not sure how a single writer can know how much their promotion affects their sales, not having release the exact same books without promotion in a parallel universe. In my experience authors attribute success and failure) to their promotion, but there is no real way to know how true this is. And other factors are typically larger in scale.

I agree. Self-promotion is something you do not because you're certain this or that works, but because you need to do everything, just in case it does work.

- Victoria
 
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Brindle Chase

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I see both sides of the debate here, in regards to authors taking the majority of promotion of their books. On the one hand... I understand that an author wants their publisher to believe in their book enough to not only publish it, but to promote it.

On the other, I understand why a publisher would want an author to believe in their own book enough to want to promote it also.

My conclusion is, that no matter the publisher, any author who gets involved in their promotion, will see better sales, greater fan base and stronger connections throughout the publishing industry... so I ask, is it really too much for a small publishing platform to request the author promote the books they publish? In my opinion... it's not.

Even if I got signed by a major house... I would still take on as much promo as I could aside my publisher's efforts.
 

Sakamonda

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I sold quite a lot of books through live and list chats, often while the chats are in progress.

---As have I. I've also landed media attention (radio interviews, newspaper articles, reviews in prominent publications) via my own promotion and also by attending conferences and networking. Media quotes/attention are very important to the larger publishers in securing deals, esp. if you are looking to "move up" from smaller houses to bigger ones, and from smaller advances to bigger ones as well.
 

Stacia Kane

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No one's saying authors shouldn't do promo, and that wasn't at all my point. Just that other factors make a bigger difference, at least in my experience and that of other writers I've spoken with. I had a small epress book for which I did a lot of promo, and it didn't sell well. For my first EC release I did very little promo--just the basic things--and it sold something like 75 times the number of that small epress book.

The difference was one was with a publisher that had a lot of customers, and one wasn't. It's very possible the very small house book sold much better than it would have without my promo, but it's also a fact that my EC release sold much better simply by virtue of being at EC. This has been the experience of a lot of writers I know, as I said. A list chat may sell you another twenty or thirty or whatever copies, or even hundreds if it's a very large chat--I've never seen or heard of it happening but I won't say it isn't possible--but going with EC rather than the other house sold me several hundred more copies without effort. That's all my point was.

ETA: Maybe this should be a separate thread? My original post wasn't really about Ravenous per se and neither was this one.
 
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Susan Gable

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Do the promo stuff you ENJOY.

Like, hanging out on Facebook. I know I've sold books as a result of Facebook. But I have a BLAST on Facebook.

If you personally like bookmarks, make bookmarks. Make book trailers.

But don't do any of it expecting to see XYZ returns on the individual efforts.

For example...has anyone here ever bought a book because you got a PEN with the author's name on it?

Got some other "cute" token? (And I mean that the token itself made you go buy the book.)

That's what I'm saying when I say your efforts may not amount to all that much. Because you generally don't make your money back on that kind of stuff.

Susan G.
 

Maryn

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For example...has anyone here ever bought a book because you got a PEN with the author's name on it?
I received such a pen at a mystery convention in the 90s. It's my grocery list pen, since I not only don't care if I lose it, but couldn't tell you the name of the author or her book. Naturally, it rarely slips out of the spiral, and when lost, is always found again.

Maryn, aware she's strayed well away from the topic
 

Sakamonda

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I've found that working to get major media attention (which is also FREE, if you have the right contacts) is the most effective promo there is. All it costs you is time, and a little legwork.

Whenever I go to book conferences I get a bag full of promo "swag"---postcards, bookmarks, pens, candy, party favors, etc. from authors using it to promote themselves. I throw everything away but the pens, which I use in my office, though I don't pay attention to the names/books on them.

But I do read newspaper articles, Publishers Weekly, magazines, online mags, blogs, listen to the radio (esp. NPR), watch TV. When I read/hear about a book through one of these media, I will often go check it out.

Publishers know this, too. Authors with media cred get more and better deals as a result. That's why knowing how to do real PR and how/when/where work with the press is so important.

M.J. Rose's blog and course "Buzz Your Book" is all about how to land media buzz.
 

Stlight

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I've never seen an ad for a book in a magazine or heard one on the radio. I guess I'm reading the wrong magazines and listening to the wrong stations. The local newspaper doesn't pick up the ads, and I'm not buying the NYT just for the book reveiws.

I haven't found a listing of chats to visit to find new authors either. I must be completely out of that loop.

I have read the reviews on a few blogs. Only bought one book that way. It received praise, but I found it condesending.

I never notice the name sof authors on bookmarks, pens, or other promo articles. This isn't intentional, it just doesn't stick.

I don't know what to do about ebooks, because I pick out books I see in person on the shelves.
 
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