The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

negative reviews

I read the review in question, it was hysterically funny and very mean. I don't much care for mean.

Our book with PublishAmerica is our third book, but our first work of fiction. Truth be told if it would have been our first book and PA would have been our first publishing experience I would have been devasted. Wait -- is there a stronger word than devasted -- where is that thesauras when you need it?

That's what pisses me off about the deceptiveness of PublishAmerica and the infamous cheerleader - you know his initials. Our book should have sold thousands of copies ( no really, it had a niche market and a general appeal to readers who like thrillers) instead of just over 600 copies. We stopped all promotional efforts when we started getting emails from customers who said "I went down to my local Barnes and Noble but it wasn't there, they said I'd have to special order it. Or that they couldn't order it at all. When our local Barnes and Noble CM said yes he'd love to have an event for us - he had one for our previous book - and then no he couldn't because pa IS POD.

It's easy to say, and I mean this with no malice, go get an attorney. We did. It's EXPENSIVE! And that is what PA is counting on. Are we giving up? NO!

In our case we were lucky, we decided about two years ago that we wanted to be writers, not consultants, so we made some intentional changes, life style and otherwise, to pursue that objective. We retained a good law firm experienced in publishing and entertainment. And we paid a retainer, not a huge one, probably not even their average retainer, but it was cash out-of-pocket so as questions came up concerning contracts, copyrights, selling screenplays ( hello producers are you out there, we have a screenplay for you) we would have someone we could quickly get advice from.

Most writers aren't as fortunate as we are. But I hate to think, what if PublishAmerica was our first publishing experience, and not John Wiley & Sons?

Dee
www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com

Re: royalty check

"That review is soooo mean! Attacking authors like that IS NOT going to help them improve, nor is it going to hurt PA. I really feel for the author and hope that she has been able to move on."

It's mean, but sooo funny.

Dee Power

Ms. Powers,

Did you win by getting a lawyer or is the fight still underway with PA?

How did you guys get taken by PA if you already had two books published?

Mr. Kuzminski,

Didn't PA sucker you too?

Oh, PA's cheerleader said on the message board that he is ready to take on the PA naysayers. Get your flyswatters out!

Re: Dee Power

ProandCon, I have a question for you:

Are you really Larry Clopper, as some have suggested?

<HR>

For everyone, if that cheerleader shows up, I'd prefer if he wasn't flamed. Calm, rational discussion, sticking to facts, may well educate him.

Larry Clopper

Mr. Macdonald,

Who is this Larry Clopper I keep hearing about on the posts?

I laughed when Detective McCann started saying that. That guy is funny and talks a good game. He sure can hold his own with Mr. Kuzminski.

Oh, were you calling PA authors suckers indirectly in your post about the vanity ads in the New York Times? I was shocked to even think you maybe implied that? Tell me it wasn't so!

Re: Larry Clopper

Larry Clopper is one of the co-owners of PublishAmerica. If you are him, well, strange attitude you have toward your own authors.

And ... the PA authors who may have spent thousands or even tens of thousands of dollars on their own books? "Suckers" is such a harsh word. I'd prefer to say that they may not have thought through the business aspects of their careers as authors.

Later, when the ad comes out, I will probably say some things that some specific authors won't find comforting.

I certainly hope than none of them took out mortgages to pay for those book purchases.

Re: Dee Power

ProandCon, I have never submitted any manuscripts to PublishAmerica. Consequently, I have never been rejected by them. Nor have I, therefore, been suckered by them as you suggest.

On the other hand, PublishAmerica has libeled me on more than one occasion. Also, they have misused or misappropriated a trademark belonging to me by purchasing four Internet domains that use my trademark. However, those activities of theirs occurred after my site, Preditors & Editors (tm), recommended against PublishAmerica because its contract was poor. There was never any malice in making that recommendation. It was pure and simple analysis offered after a writer provided a copy of the then existent contract to me and asked for an opinion. There was clearly malice in PA's reaction.

Now, be a good fellow and read the other comments from Ms. Powers. I see no reason for her to repeat everything when you can just as easily read the preceding pages.

Dee Power

Mr. Kuzminski,

My mistake. I thought you were a previous PA author. Are you an author?

I know you love to talk and what you do for writers is a good thing but is the power going to your head?

What I ask Ms. Powers is none of your business, sir. The questions to her can be answered if she would like to answer them. If not, that is her decision not yours.

Larry Clopper

Mr. Macdonald,

Once more I'm not Larry Clopper.

I hope some of the PA authors didn't mortgage their homes. They had plenty of warnings from other PA authors to be wise and not fall for that trap.

Of course it's most likely some were blinded by the desire to win.

Man, I need a new Rolex!

Re: Dee Power

Whether or not someone is an author, and where or with whom (or in what genre) they publish, is rather a red herring to the question of who can make sensible comments on publishing practices.

If I speak authoritatively, it isn't because I'm a published writer, it's because I'm interested in the business.

And Dave's right: The answers to your questions to Dee are only a couple of pages upstream. Reading this whole thread would repay your time.

Re: Why is P.A. Still around...

www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/5843.htm
There is something wrong with someone having to post something like the above just so they don't get in trouble. Whether they were told to post this or felt they had to post this, pressure was applied somewhere.

Re: Why is P.A. Still around...

Thanks, lastr. I just read the post you linked. I feel bad for that author.

While I was over there, I found another post from another author with a forthcoming book:

<Blockquote>
I, too, do not buy the song that all those who have failed are singing. Think about it. Rarely in life are we given the chance to be all we can be. Like baseball players who have been signed by the big leagues, they, too, must prove themselves or they're history. They can put the blame on no one else. They can never say they weren't given the chance.

This book, [title deleted -- JDM], is being promoted by a small network of family members, including yours truly, 24/7, with only one goal in mind. Success! Because if I fail, like all others who were given "that chance" in their chosen vocation, there will be no one else to blame but myself.

All those who are laying blame at the feet of PA for their own failures are doing nothing more than refusing to admit the error of their ways.
</blockquote>

No, no, my friend. You've bought into the Meiners Myth, but it just isn't true. You haven't been, and aren't being, "given the chance." When your book "fails," it won't be your fault, and it won't be your book's fault. You didn't set the cover price. You didn't short-discount the book through distributors. You didn't make the no-returns policy. You didn't fail to get CIP data. You aren't the one who isn't publishing a catalog. You didn't only pretend to edit. When, at the end of the day, the only sales you've managed are to that same network of family and friends (and to yourself), it won't mean you're a failure.

Some people won't believe until they've seen it themselves. It's likely you're one of those. When you can't get into bookstores, when you get stonewalled by PA, when you get that "don't take that tone with us" e-mail, remember. You aren't the failure here. The blame goes to PublishAmerica.

Re: Why is P.A. Still around...

What was that person thinking anyway.. ?
Of course the company is going to remove something they don't consider within their best interest...
If he's smart he'll post it somewhere else.......

O.K. ... through experience most of you have realized that PA is no good.

Have any of you heard of success stories of authors published by PA.?.... I don't mean '...wow am I every happy with the service...'

I mean... '.... I just drove my Ferrari to my cottage studio ... thanks to PA....'

He's Coming

I warned you! Update your survival kit and hide your animals. Get your flyswatters!

He's coming according to his post this morning.

We have more pressing subjects to answer. You're my brothers and sisters. Let's go kick some serious ass. These terrorists against PA need a keg of good old-fashioned whoop-ass!

I Gave PA 24 hours before launching the juggernaut and...well as you can imagine, I thought I was done.

PA!!! You really should give me a paycheck for this @#%$ because...HERE IT COMES AGAIN!!!!

Re: Why is P.A. Still around...

The PA model doesn't allow for "success" in the way writers typically measure it: lots of book sales.

The most successful ones I've heard about sold upwards of a thousand copies. Nancy Mehl is one I believe, and she is numbered among the disenchanted. (Correct me if I'm inaccurate here Nancy.)

Many of us have read posts about PA authors, who managed to arrange a signing at a bookstore, being stiffed by PA when the # of books required for the signing (20 or so) were not delivered.

It seems PA is only interested in printing and supplying quantities of books during their semi-annual "specials" and even then, they seem to only want to ship to the authors themselves.

Re: royalty check

but, in defense of PA authors - a LOT of them really know nothing else other than what PA tells them. Well, that and HB Marcus and his cheerleaders telling them over and over again that if you fail, if your book doesn't sell, that you have NO right to fault PublishAmerica because you are a lousy person and a bad writer and how dare you insinuate that PA could have done more when they gave you that big break.

it's a mindset I've seen plenty of new authors fall into on the PA boards - that somehow PA is doing them a big favor by giving them their big chance at fame and fortune, and if you're an ungrateful sot then you'll be tossed to the side of the road and told that it's all YOUR fault, that somehow YOU let yourself down by not harassing more managers to carry your book.

my own epiphany came last year with the Ohio signing debacle - even while HB Marcus was singing PA praises I had alarm bells going off in my head when I heard that PA was doing nothing to support this event; not even attempting to make sure books would be there. Wait a minute, says I to myself, why wouldn't a publisher want to do everything they could to help out an author at a book signing, especially when there's going to be quite a few of us there? Why not arrange for the books to be delivered and perhaps send a poster or two...

ding, ding.

of course, I never attended and it was pretty well a farce, from what I gathered on the board. HB Marcus managed to find one or two copies of some of the authors' books for them to flog, insisting that they could just "buy their own and resell them" at the event itself. He put out the money to raffle off an electric guitar to generate interest, which means more money out of his pocket for no profit at all. I'd love to see what sort of profits he's been pulling in for his books and some of the more vocal PA authors compared to what they've put out on stunts like this - it's easy to feel big when you sell a few books and hold a check in your hand, but when the bills come in for that publicist that everyone TOLD you you just had to have 'cause everyone else needs one and PublishAmerica is doing you such a favor by publishing your baby that you dare not ask for anything else...

PA authors, ask yourself this - you may not have gotten into writing to get rich, but did you get into writing to go into debt?

I think not...

Re: He's Coming

He's coming according to his post this morning.

Really? Where was that posted?

He's Coming

It's near the bottom of the More Moore's post.


www.publishamerica.com/cg...e/5772.htm

Re: He's Coming

Let me reiterate Jim MacD's hope that there will be no flaming if indeed HB or "Mr Book" or any other trollish sort of person shows up here. Let's try to keep it calm, and avoid feeding the energy monster.

That also goes for Mr/Ms Pro and his/her disingenuous posts. Ignore the nasties--that annoys them worst of all.

- Victoria

Oh?

Well, I'll have to post this "coming" as a Code Yawn.

Re: Let him come

let him come on over - facts tend to be more powerful than bluster and whining. We've got the facts, all they have are hyperbole and swear words - hardly the stuff of legends.

bet he never joined the debate society at school - there you need more than a foul mouth to get good marks.

Re: Let him come

If and when a representative of the PA True Believers Society arrives, I wonder if he or she would answer a few questions.

I'm not going to ask you for proof -- you're an honorable person. Your word is good enough for me. You don't even have to answer the questions in public. Private email (and email to me stays private) or merely answering them in your own mind is sufficient.

So... the questions:

How much have you, personally, spent on promoting your own books?

Have you earned that much back in royalties?

How many copies of your own book have you, personally, bought?

Would you have spent less money for the same number of books by going to a short-run printer yourself?

How many copies of your book have sold to someone you don't know by name, or you weren't looking in the eye when the sale was made?

Ever have trouble getting PA to ship the books you've ordered in the quantity you needed in a timely manner?

Ever have trouble convincing a bookstore to stock your book?

If I looked on the shelves of my local big-box bookstore, would I find a copy of your book?

Have you ever published a book with a non-vanity publisher so you can compare and contrast what PublishAmerica does with what other publishers do?

What are your total sales?

Something I don't understand..

If PA doesn't want to sell their authors' books, and I believe they could care less, why do they have the contract at SEVEN years? Aren't most sales made in the first few months after publication? It is cruel of them to lock their authors into a long contract. After the first year, from what I've read here, most authors are so disheartened as to not be able to push their books anymore.

Of course, I live in a small town where the local daily(circ. about 50,000) did a full page article on a PublishAmerica author. I wonder what they'll do when my Author gets around to selling my novel to a traditional publisher.

David

Oh?

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Well, I'll have to post this "coming" as a Code Yawn.<hr></blockquote>

Dave, as one who has been flamed by this individual any number of times, I find your comment a breath of fresh air. Excuse me while I go laugh myself silly again.

Pro and Con

As Jim and Dave suggested I have explained our experience with PublishAmerica at length in previous posts.

PublishAmerica did agree to terminate our contract, but the letter of agreement to reverse the rights was totally unacceptable. You can find that letter on this board as well, with a discussion.

We have notified Ms. Prather, Mr. Meiners and Mr. Clopper that we will not sign their agreement and that they would receive a more acceptable termination letter from our attorney.

Dee
www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com