New Orleans Repeating Deadly Levee Mistakes?

Robert Toy

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NEW ORLEANS — Signs are emerging that history is repeating itself in the Big Easy, still healing from Katrina: People have forgotten a lesson from four decades ago and believe once again that the federal government is constructing a levee system they can prosper behind.

In a yearlong review of levee work here, The Associated Press tracked a pattern of public misperception, political jockeying and legal fighting, along with economic and engineering miscalculations since Katrina, that threaten to make New Orleans the scene of another devastating flood.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,409445,00.html

This pisses me off beyond believe, do FA, and when shit happens, cry and blame the Feds.
 

mscelina

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I just read this too.

The complacency is amazing. It's like the thought process follows some obscure sort of "well, we've already had the hurricane of the century so we won't be here when THESE levees break" mentality that just escapes me.

However, having lived in LA for a brief a time as I could possibly make it, I have to admit that the political infrastructures there are amazingly corrupt--particularly at the parish level from what I saw. No telling what the state level is like, and it frightens me to try to guess. Perhaps when this happens again *and it will* the media and the lower levels of government and the people of the great state of Louisiana won't be so inclined to look quite so far away from home for someone to blame for the problems on their doorstep.
 

Robert Toy

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Perhaps when this happens again *and it will* the media and the lower levels of government and the people of the great state of Louisiana won't be so inclined to look quite so far away from home for someone to blame for the problems on their doorstep.
Well, live in hope and die in despair.

Look close to home after the next one, hah? As God said..."Not in my lifetime."
 

MattW

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What do you expect from 50 years of indoctrination that the government can and will fix everything?
 

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Yet next time they break, you can rest assured that New Orleans' own mayor Nagin WON'T be blamed. He'll just camp out in another high cost penthouse suite while the city floods, only coming out for TV appearances. And despite doing nothing to help aid people, they'll reelect him anyway.

I'm sorry, but I have little sympathy for the people of New Orleans. Their so-called mayor refused to do anything to help people get out and then blamed the government for it. He then made racist comments and continued to do nothing in the aftermath. Yet the put him back in office. You reap what you sow as far as I'm concerned.
 

blacbird

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The complacency is amazing.

No, it's not. Not in New Orleans. At least not among the locals. There's a reason they proudly call it "The Big Easy". I lived there for about four years in the early 1980s, and never ceased to be amazed at the lethargy that besets the local population. Prior to Katrina, New Orleans had the highest percentage of population locally-born of any major city in the U.S., according to Rand-McNally stats. It's probably even higher now, since a lot of non-locals have taken the opportunity to resettle elsewhere, and it's likely the people most interested in moving back have been those who never lived anywhere else. And the place is all about status quo, dating back to the 19th Century, maybe earlier. Laissez le bon temps roulée!

No one should be the least surprised by this story. Like a James Bond martini, Katrina left the populace of New Orleans shaken, but not stirred.

caw
 
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Bartholomew

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What do you expect from 50 years of indoctrination that the government can and will fix everything?

Who has that? My generation seems to believe the government is a massive, evil organization kept only in check by... who knows?
 

Don

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Who has that? My generation seems to believe the government is a massive, evil organization kept only in check by... who knows?
Then why all the cries for government to fix a whole laundry list of problems, from the mortgage crisis to the healthcare crisis? Why are so many convinced that replacing a figurehead will suddenly bring about a transformation and 'peace in our time?'

Why are so few capable of seeing that most of the issues they ask government to rescue them from were actually caused by government meddling in the first place? If government is a massive, evil organization, why aren't smaller government and ethical government on the table for discussion?
 

Robert Toy

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Why are so many convinced that replacing a figurehead will suddenly bring about a transformation and 'peace in our time?'
But, but...you mean it won't?
 

MattW

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Why are so many convinced that replacing a figurehead will suddenly bring about a transformation and 'peace in our time?'
But the Coronation is TONIGHT!!!1!1!ones
 

Robert Toy

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Check out the predicted path and strength of Hurricane Gustav by Tuesday, on the map here:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26367291

caw
Sorry, I got sidetracked by the Viva Viagra video…I’m still trying to figure out who is taking it and why the young lady keeps waving to every guy driving by…but all ended well after she drops her bag of groceries and gets on the back of a bike and zooms off into the sunset.

To the tune Elvis and a warning that if your errection last more than four hours you should contact your doctor, as if she would care.

Poor Elvis must be rolling over in his grave.
 

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Then why all the cries for government to fix a whole laundry list of problems, from the mortgage crisis to the healthcare crisis? Why are so many convinced that replacing a figurehead will suddenly bring about a transformation and 'peace in our time?'

Why are so few capable of seeing that most of the issues they ask government to rescue them from were actually caused by government meddling in the first place? If government is a massive, evil organization, why aren't smaller government and ethical government on the table for discussion?

(1 - That government meddling caused the problem is utter, unsupportable opinion. If you actually believe this, how can you claim the president to be a mere figure head? If he was only a figure head, why would our two main political parties spend millions of dollars jockeying for the position?

(2 - The government isn't evil, but many people in my generation seem to believe it is. Mine is the generation that readily blames the president and congress for everything from public transit to healthcare.

(3 - If smaller government worked, we'd still have one. Frankly, I've come to believe that every single citizen should be involved in government in some capacity or another. A small government becomes an empowered clique. A large government, while unwieldy and grossly inefficient at even the simplest task, can be readily shaped and fixed.

If one hates this government, it is especially their duty to vote, campaign, and donate.
 

clintl

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Then why all the cries for government to fix a whole laundry list of problems, from the mortgage crisis to the healthcare crisis? Why are so many convinced that replacing a figurehead will suddenly bring about a transformation and 'peace in our time?'

Why are so few capable of seeing that most of the issues they ask government to rescue them from were actually caused by government meddling in the first place? If government is a massive, evil organization, why aren't smaller government and ethical government on the table for discussion?

The mortgage crisis was caused by the government not meddling enough.
 

Don

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The mortgage crisis was caused by the government not meddling enough.
There's plenty of blame to go around. However, the root cause of the mortgage crisis was the Federal Reserve's ham-handed attempts to keep the dot-com bubble from collapsing by keeping interest rates artifically low for years. Without that, the money for the subprime loans, which in turn fueled the over-production of housing, would have been impossible.

Although various states were trying to control repackaging of predatory loans., those attempts were struck down by the Treasury Department.

Meanwhile, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were writing bad paper by the ream, and Countrywide was buying influence left and right, including Chris Dodd, Kent Conrad, and James A. Johnson (who, BTW, is an advisor for Barack; it's a non-partisan problem).

Looks like there was already more than enough government meddling going on. It seems eerily reminiscent of the Savings and Loan debacle, where good old John McCain got off with a wrist slap instead of a prison term.
 

MattW

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(1 - That government meddling caused the problem is utter, unsupportable opinion. If you actually believe this, how can you claim the president to be a mere figure head? If he was only a figure head, why would our two main political parties spend millions of dollars jockeying for the position?
I think what he meant was that the president is only one person, and no matter how much they promise to get elected, they are fighting the inertia of thousands of bureaucrats, hundreds of departments, and dozens of agencies (not to mention the conflicting demands of voters and their representatives). Changing the guy at the helm might have some superficial impact on the direction this ship is going, but it's not going to turn on a dime.

(2 - The government isn't evil, but many people in my generation seem to believe it is. Mine is the generation that readily blames the president and congress for everything from public transit to healthcare.
They blame government because, even if government didn't cause the problem in our lifetimes, they did nothing to punish those who did. If it's a failing of government meddling, why would more meddling be a good idea?

(3 - If smaller government worked, we'd still have one. Frankly, I've come to believe that every single citizen should be involved in government in some capacity or another. A small government becomes an empowered clique.
A small government means you can focus on necessities first, then add nice to haves as you can. Permanent structures that all compete for the same tax dollar means we pay more taxes, and some important things don't get done well or at all (road infrastructure).

A large government, while unwieldy and grossly inefficient at even the simplest task, can be readily shaped and fixed.
I disagree. Getting things done in a large organization is never easy. The layers of approvals, checks, and funding, not to mention the paperwork, will slow down any need for fast response (see topic of this thread). All the more reason for small gov't, and less reliance on them.
 

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I think what he meant was that the president is only one person, and no matter how much they promise to get elected, they are fighting the inertia of thousands of bureaucrats, hundreds of departments, and dozens of agencies (not to mention the conflicting demands of voters and their representatives). Changing the guy at the helm might have some superficial impact on the direction this ship is going, but it's not going to turn on a dime.

They blame government because, even if government didn't cause the problem in our lifetimes, they did nothing to punish those who did. If it's a failing of government meddling, why would more meddling be a good idea?

A small government means you can focus on necessities first, then add nice to haves as you can. Permanent structures that all compete for the same tax dollar means we pay more taxes, and some important things don't get done well or at all (road infrastructure).

I disagree. Getting things done in a large organization is never easy. The layers of approvals, checks, and funding, not to mention the paperwork, will slow down any need for fast response (see topic of this thread). All the more reason for small gov't, and less reliance on them.

I dunno. If we dismantle the government we have now in favor of smaller units of a similar government, I can easily see a lot of our civil liberties vanishing.
 

MattW

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I dunno. If we dismantle the government we have now in favor of smaller units of a similar government, I can easily see a lot of our civil liberties vanishing.
I think we're way past dismantling. Reorganizing, streamlining, and unpopular cuts of sacred cows should be enough. It works in corporations that go stagnant or insolvent, but in the business world, the layoffs can't get together to fire the CEO.