Journalism is dying? Probably.

Maxinquaye

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I have to admit that I don't really have a lot of sympathy for that argument because the 5-dollar mills are destroying people's ability to earn proper wages, even if the wages are low. It may help some people, but it is harmful to whole groups of other people. The minimum wages should be, like for all businesses, the one where the company is located. That would make foreign writers happy, if they paid western wages, and some international solidarity between workers could be had. If the company was located in low-wage countries, westerners wouldn't write for them.
 

muravyets

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I wouldn't mind those $5 places getting forced to pay minimum wage. I mean, I don't want them to go because, frankly, as someone with virtually nothing in my portfolio to show prospective clients, those sites have been a lifesaver for me in helping me build up a record of completed and sold work, but it would be nice if the wages I received reflected the time and effort I put in, even a little.

The problem is... which minimum wage? The US minimum wage, or the minimum wage in your country of origin? Because as far as I see it, that variability makes places like that inevitable. You've got high-end writing jobs that should pay a decent wage, but in which anyone bidding for the work is competing against people with decades of experience, and you've got low-end writing jobs where people with less experience can make a start, but where you're competing against people in poorer countries who are willing to write a dozen articles for what you'd charge for one.
I hear a lot of conflicting advice about breaking into the creative professions and whether it's okay to do low-paid work or work on spec or just outright free work. Personally, I come down in the camp that it's better to do free work than to do underpaid work, so long as you get to choose who you work for. A creative professional, whether artist or writer, who is trying to build a portfolio with client references does better, in my opinion, to offer to do a few small jobs for free for charities or local small businesses than to accept low-paying jobs that get handed out to anyone willynilly for generic pocket change. In the first case, you get to establish a tie to a real client who may give you a reference and a network connection in a field you might want to work in again. In the second, you may get your foot in the door, but it's the door with a cheap-ass quote, no references, and doing work few people value.

Whether I'm considering art jobs, day jobs, or writing, I try to balance pay with value on my resume. If a job will enhance neither my bank account nor my resume, then I see it as a waste of my time.

I agree with Max. Let the wage laws of each nation rule, and let's get writers cooperating to ensure the inevitable legal wrangles work out for better wages globally.
 

nighttimer

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The first thing that should be done is to ban internships. They're basically free labour and they destroy entry level positions. Why pay a new journalist when you can get an intern to work 65+ hours a week for free, and who is ready to be online on twitter at night or on weekends?

The second is to start shaming places like Huffington Post. I mean, we're writers in here? Why do we link to that site, even if we happen to like a certain subject?

Third, novelists and fiction writers have all these bulldog guards out there that explode into outrage over agents and publishers that try to pull a fast one. Maybe journalists need such a network as well.

Maybe there needs to be a place like Editors & Preditors for journalists. And every writer should be informed about the lie that 'exposure' is valuable. It isn't. It just destroys the market so that we are at this point where not even the most experienced working for the most prestigious organisations are expected to ask for pay.

All those 5-dollar mills out there should be shut down. Maybe they should be forced to pay minimum wage. So what if it closes them down. I wouldn't really cry about it.

Man, I wish I could argue with you Maxinquaye, but I can't.

However, there are reasons why The Atlantic's "no pay for play" philosophy makes sense (I'm not saying they are good reasons).

But there’s something bigger going on at the Atlantic, too. Cohn told me the Atlantic now employs some 50 journalists, just on the digital side of things: that’s more than the Atlantic magazine ever employed, and it’s emblematic of a deep difference between print journalism and digital journalism. In print magazines, the process of reporting and editing and drafting and rewriting and art directing and so on takes months: it’s a major operation. The journalist — the person doing most of the writing — often never even sees the magazine’s offices, where a large amount of work goes into putting the actual product together.


The job putting a website together, by contrast, is much faster and more integrated. Distinctions blur: if you work for theatlantic.com, you’re not going to find yourself in a narrow job like photo editor, or assignment editor, or stylist.



Everybody does everything — including writing, and once you start working there, you realize pretty quickly that things go much more easily and much more quickly when pieces are entirely produced in-house than when you outsource the writing part to a freelancer. At a high-velocity shop like Atlantic Digital, freelancers just slow things down — as well as producing all manner of back-end headaches surrounding invoicing and the like.


The result is that Atlantic Digital’s freelancer budget is minuscule, and that any extra marginal money going into the editorial budget is overwhelmingly likely to be put into hiring new full-time staff, rather than beefing up the amount spent on freelancers. Cohn didn’t give me hard numbers, but some back-of-the-envelope math would indicate that more than 95% of his total editorial budget is spent on staffers, rather than freelancers.


Staffers come in, work hard at a multitude of jobs, and coordinate with each other surprisingly well; it also takes them very little time to understand how to create great web content quickly and internally, rather than relying on outsiders. Khazan had only just started her job when she tried to get Thayer to repurpose his article; my guess is that with a little bit more experience, she would have found it much easier to simply write a quick article of her own, linking to and blockquoting Thayer’s piece, driving traffic to him without having to negotiate with him at all. Look, for instance, at how David Trifunov of Global Post tackled the subject: he wrote a short but interesting post of his own, incorporating links to three outside stories, including Thayer’s, as well as another Global Post story. That’s the natural way of the web, and it doesn’t involve any freelancing.


The fact is that freelancing only really works in a medium where there’s a lot of clear distribution of labor: where writers write, and editors edit, and art directors art direct, and so on. Most websites don’t work like that, and are therefore difficult places to incorporate freelance content. The result is that it’s pretty much impossible to make a decent living on freelance digital-journalism income alone: I certainly don’t know of anybody who manages it. There’s still real money in magazine features, and there are a handful of websites which pay as much as $1,000 or $1,500 per article. But in general it’s much, much easier to get a job paying $60,000 a year working for a website than it is to cobble together $60,000 a year working freelance for a variety of different websites.


The lesson here, then, is not that digital journalism doesn’t pay. It does pay, and often it pays better than print journalism. Rather, the lesson is that if you want to earn money in digital journalism, you’re probably going to have to get a full-time job somewhere. Lots of people write content online; most of them aren’t even journalists, and as Arianna Huffington says, “self-expression is the new entertainment”.


Digital journalism isn’t really about writing, any more — not in the manner that freelance print journalists understand it, anyway. Instead, it’s more about reading, and aggregating, and working in teams; doing all the work that used to happen in old print-magazine offices, but doing it on a vastly compressed timescale.


There are exceptions to this rule, of course — websites which still pay freelance writers decent sums. The New Republic, for one, seems to be carving out an impressive niche as a place to find carefully-edited, print-quality freelance content even when the piece in question doesn’t appear in the magazine. And when the web slows down, as it does at places like Matter, it’s quite easy to find in-depth journalism and reporting from well-paid freelancers. But in general, it’s fair to say that the web is not a freelancer-friendly place. Just be careful about extrapolating: there are lots of very good digital-journalism jobs out there, no matter how badly some freelancers get treated.
 

Priene

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The second is to start shaming places like Huffington Post. I mean, we're writers in here? Why do we link to that site, even if we happen to like a certain subject?

I don't read it or link to it or have anything to do with it. It's an exploitative capitalist entity of the worst type. The only difference between it and a Cambodian sweat shop is the Cambodians get paid something. The directors of any company that pays less than the minimum wage, including internships, should be given prison sentences.
 

Maxinquaye

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I don't read it or link to it or have anything to do with it. It's an exploitative capitalist entity of the worst type. The only difference between it and a Cambodian sweat shop is the Cambodians get paid something. The directors of any company that pays less than the minimum wage, including internships, should be given prison sentences.

I regularly see people here link to it here. I don't understand why. Everyone must know the nature of that place.

Leftists linking to it because HuffPo huff and fuss over something the right is doing is a case of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend", even though the enemy of my enemy is operating because it uses indentured labour.
 

onesecondglance

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This sort of behaviour is rife across creative industries. Hell, even the 2012 Olympics tried to screw musicians out of being paid for playing at the opening and closing ceremonies. "Great exposure for you!" Bollocks, you're spending millions on this, and you don't want to pay the people who are going to actually helping make it happen.

http://www.musiciansunion.org.uk/ne...g-musicians-not-to-work-for-free-at-olympics/

It's not right on any level. Question is, how do you stop people from taking up these offers? Cos if they didn't take them up, companies wouldn't bother trying this schtick.
 

Maxinquaye

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It's not right on any level. Question is, how do you stop people from taking up these offers? Cos if they didn't take them up, companies wouldn't bother trying this schtick.

People should vote for politicians that puts a stop to it. One of the core jobs of any state is to enforce equality under the law. If your party of choice doesn't want to put a stop to it, or fusses about answering about whether they want to stop it, vote for someone else.

Oh, and unions. Strikes are remarkably efficient in inconveniencing the voters of the politicians so that they demand action. That at least puts the question on the agenda, even though the voters might grouse about 'union bosses' and communists.
 

Priene

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I regularly see people here link to it here. I don't understand why. Everyone must know the nature of that place.

Leftists linking to it because HuffPo huff and fuss over something the right is doing is a case of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend", even though the enemy of my enemy is operating because it uses indentured labour.

Huffington's business is remarkable for the brazenness of its appropriation of the territory of its ideological foe. If it was an manufacturing company, leftists would be organising pickets. Because it's peddling an unneeded format for discussing leftish topics, that makes it strangely acceptable for some.
 

benbradley

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Huffington Post is an interesting case. Are there any organized "don't link to Huffpo" campaigns?
This sort of behaviour is rife across creative industries. Hell, even the 2012 Olympics tried to screw musicians out of being paid for playing at the opening and closing ceremonies. "Great exposure for you!" Bollocks, you're spending millions on this, and you don't want to pay the people who are going to actually helping make it happen.

http://www.musiciansunion.org.uk/ne...g-musicians-not-to-work-for-free-at-olympics/

It's not right on any level. Question is, how do you stop people from taking up these offers? Cos if they didn't take them up, companies wouldn't bother trying this schtick.
Steer people toward articles like that. The new Hydra imprint thing is all over, here on AW and on SFWA. Tell people why (if they can't figure it out for themselves) it's not in their best interest to work for free.
People should vote for politicians that puts a stop to it. One of the core jobs of any state is to enforce equality under the law. If your party of choice doesn't want to put a stop to it, or fusses about answering about whether they want to stop it, vote for someone else.

Oh, and unions. Strikes are remarkably efficient in inconveniencing the voters of the politicians so that they demand action. That at least puts the question on the agenda, even though the voters might grouse about 'union bosses' and communists.
That's an interesting response.The way I read it is some people are so stupid they can't be convinced not to take such offers, so the solution is to made such offers illegal.
 

Maxinquaye

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That's an interesting response.The way I read it is some people are so stupid they can't be convinced not to take such offers, so the solution is to made such offers illegal.

Not really. Some people are desperate. If you have kids who are afraid that if they report misuse of internships they'll destroy their careers before it gets started, or if you can't actually get a future paying jobs without interships, then it is incumbent upon the state to take action. And basic solidarity says that the rest of society should be mindful and elect people that won't turn whole generations into peaons.
 

CrastersBabies

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I think anyone who has spent time on e-lance knows how most writers are treated in terms of payment. "35k words! Need in a week! $50!!!!"

With the internet, I guess people think that any Joe or Jane can toss up a blog and call it "writing."

In truth, I have no idea where journalism is going, but I hope something happens to get things going in the other direction. Too many sticky corporate fingers poking and prodding to control information. Too many conflicts of interest.

A writer's worth seems to have diminished considerably with the internet and the mass amount of information available to us. Not only that, but a journalist isn't just a writer anymore, they need to be video editors, audio specialists, need to function as a one-man-band.

It seems like the music industry was hit hard by the online movement (with P2P sharing and such), but Amazon and I-Tunes seem to have brought things back. Perhaps writers (not just journalists) need to find a new method, a new framework to get material out there.
 

Wilde_at_heart

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I also liked how he mentioned his own history with the publication. You would think an editor for a high-end title like The Atlantic would run a quick in-house check to see if they'd ever worked with a freelancer before contacting them. His experience highlights several reasons why the quality of news reporting has declined. It's not just a matter of getting what they pay for. It seems a general lack of professionalism is trickling down from the top.

I've been appalled for a while now by how many people do their jobs half-assed, while buttering up their senior managers for the next promotion that comes along.

This whole 'high-flyer' trend really has to go in the entire corporate sector.

As for journalism, for the past twenty years there's been an over-reliance on wire stories and press releases for 'news' over on-the-ground reporting or investigative work. There's barely any nowadays.

Mainly because it's cheaper. Until recently newspapers and other media companies enjoyed massive profit margins - far higher than pretty much any other industry. So a lot of this bleating about going broke is utter nonsense.

I used to work at a paid newswire service owned by one of the major conglomerates so I write this from personal experience.
 

Deleted member 42

The first thing that should be done is to ban internships. They're basically free labour and they destroy entry level positions. Why pay a new journalist when you can get an intern to work 65+ hours a week for free, and who is ready to be online on twitter at night or on weekends?

Speaking as someone who was an intern at a publisher, and who supervised internships in digital media and publishing for UCLA, no.

A good internship where the person is enrolled in a reputable school, where tenured faculty member and professional staff at the school arrange, approved, and monitor internships, that's a marvelous thing.

I learned a lot; I wasn't paid an hourly wage, but I had professionals in the field supervising and teaching me—and helping me make contacts.

They made sure my work was credited. I had regular evaluations from my superviser and the school sent someone to verify my working conditions.

Later, the company helped find jobs for me.

As a superviser of on site internships, we carefully checked the companies out before placing students. We kept in touch with the students, and with their supervisors at the companies. We had carefully prepared requirements and contracts.

All those 5-dollar mills out there should be shut down. Maybe they should be forced to pay minimum wage. So what if it closes them down. I wouldn't really cry about it.

I worked for several years as a paid blogger. The pay wasn't great, but it was reliable, steady, and I was paid on time.

I had food on the table. I'd do it again, if the circumstances warranted it.
 

ap123

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Limited internships can be a great idea and resource for both sides, but often it is just unpaid labor that isn't carefully vetted by the school/program that costs the student (or the student's parents) money.

I've had conversations around this issue with a few established and respected journalist friends recently. I think this is a real problem and respect Thayer for speaking out.
 

muravyets

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Huffington Post is an interesting case. Are there any organized "don't link to Huffpo" campaigns?

Steer people toward articles like that. The new Hydra imprint thing is all over, here on AW and on SFWA. Tell people why (if they can't figure it out for themselves) it's not in their best interest to work for free.

That's an interesting response.The way I read it is some people are so stupid they can't be convinced not to take such offers, so the solution is to made such offers illegal.

Not really. Some people are desperate. If you have kids who are afraid that if they report misuse of internships they'll destroy their careers before it gets started, or if you can't actually get a future paying jobs without interships, then it is incumbent upon the state to take action. And basic solidarity says that the rest of society should be mindful and elect people that won't turn whole generations into peaons.
Agreed again, in response to Ben's post. Another thing people need to remember is that, at least in the US, Lincoln freed the slaves. We fought a whole civil war, one result of which is that people get paid for their work now. People need to be able to rely on the law to protect their rights and to educate them about their rights, such as their right to get paid for labor done and services rendered. I have been in actual salaried staff jobs in which I have relied on the law to put a stop to abusive, unethical, and exploitative employment practices. I see no reason why freelancers shouldn't be able to do the same.

I think anyone who has spent time on e-lance knows how most writers are treated in terms of payment. "35k words! Need in a week! $50!!!!"

With the internet, I guess people think that any Joe or Jane can toss up a blog and call it "writing."

In truth, I have no idea where journalism is going, but I hope something happens to get things going in the other direction. Too many sticky corporate fingers poking and prodding to control information. Too many conflicts of interest.

A writer's worth seems to have diminished considerably with the internet and the mass amount of information available to us. Not only that, but a journalist isn't just a writer anymore, they need to be video editors, audio specialists, need to function as a one-man-band.

It seems like the music industry was hit hard by the online movement (with P2P sharing and such), but Amazon and I-Tunes seem to have brought things back. Perhaps writers (not just journalists) need to find a new method, a new framework to get material out there.
A company who protects their own profit by essentially stealing other people's work is doing no one a favor, no matter how they hype the glory of "exposure" in their venue. The Atlantic is not a non-profit or a struggling academic press. Nighttimer described, above, a business model that seems focused entirely on maximizing profit at high volume, not on giving exposure to writers. It also seems like an over-grown house of cards that may not be sustainable in the long term. At what point do they start to look more like those $5 mills than their own parent publication?

I say if publications like The Atlantic find they can't afford to pay freelance writers (which I think is a crock, but anyway), then they shouldn't contract freelancers. If they want to get free work let them beg from students -- until the students learn what ethical businesses practices look like.

Thayer does in fact look quite a lot like a deliberate, conscious plagiarizer.
Hrm. Okay, let's say, for the sake of discussion, without making any real claims against him, that Thayer is 100% crooked -- a liar, coward, cad, and thief. Does that make The Atlantic's practices ethical?

Because that's what I'm focussing on. All I know about Thayer is that he has an established career. I don't know if he's worth a damn or not. I only know he's a professional, which apparently is more than this editor from the Atlantic online knew before she contacted him. Aside from that, I know little and care less about Nick Thayer. What I care about is the state of journalism in particular and the creative professions in general. But especially journalism because of its importance in our lives.

So if the topic question is whether journalism is dying because of the business models of media outlets, and if the debate is about whether these no-pay models are ethical and, if not, what writers might do about it, then who cares if Nick Thayer is accused of being a plagiarist? It has nothing to do with the active question. Throwing it out there kind of feels like a bit of well-poisoning, with a sprinkle of ad hominem.

Nick Thayer raised the question for the purpose of this thread, but he is hardly the only person to raise this question. I personally say Mr. Thayer, as an individual, is irrelevant to the topic.
 

Maxinquaye

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I don't really care about Thayer. From what I've read, and as I posted earlier, he is an arrogant jerk. If that also means he's a plagiarizer, then I guess it would fit into the picture I have of him from before.

But he started a storm about this. The storm is full of freelancers, experienced and not experienced, that all report the same thing. And that's what I'm focusing on. I also notice the hand-wringing from a lot of digital journalist sites that try to couch exploitation in fancy terms of 'business models' and 'different processes'.

But that's irrelevant.

To quote someone that I'm sure nobody has objections to, namely John Scalzi, current president of SFWA, about offers he get to write for free:

http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/12/...nking-of-asking-me-to-write-for-you-for-free/
If you didn’t know that I was that guy in point three, and just asked me to write for free for you because, I don’t know, you heard I was a writer of some sort, although you couldn’t say what kind or what I had done, then what you’re saying to me is “Hey, you’re a warm body with an allegedly working brain stem and no idea of the value of your work — let me exploit you!” I want you to ask yourself what in that estimation of me would entice me to provide you with work, starting with the fact that you didn’t do even the most basic research into who I was. Rumor is, it’s not hard to find information about me on the Internet! Just type “John Scalzi” into Google and see!
 

Deleted member 42

Hrm. Okay, let's say, for the sake of discussion, without making any real claims against him, that Thayer is 100% crooked -- a liar, coward, cad, and thief. Does that make The Atlantic's practices ethical?

No; it means that they both want something that doesn't belong to them, and rather than pay for it, they want it for free.

The difference is that Thayer just took it; The Atlantic asked first.

When I started writing, print publications started at about a dime a word. Some paid 2.50/word, for niche publications that were subscription only and cost a thousand or so a year to subscribe to.

That's gone. It's not going to come back.

I note in passing that scholars are expected to write for free, and may even be charged in some circumstances for special typesetting or illustrations. Academic journals don't pay, and while it's nice to earn points for tenure, there are vast hordes of academics committing scholarly publishing who aren't in tenure-track positions.

They're not paid either.

Writers can choose to write for current rates, they can say no to offers that don't involve pay, they can write on sites they own.

But we're not going back to the days before blogging.
 

muravyets

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No; it means that they both want something that doesn't belong to them, and rather than pay for it, they want it for free.

The difference is that Thayer just took it; The Atlantic asked first.

When I started writing, print publications started at about a dime a word. Some paid 2.50/word, for niche publications that were subscription only and cost a thousand or so a year to subscribe to.

That's gone. It's not going to come back.

I note in passing that scholars are expected to write for free, and may even be charged in some circumstances for special typesetting or illustrations. Academic journals don't pay, and while it's nice to earn points for tenure, there are vast hordes of academics committing scholarly publishing who aren't in tenure-track positions.

They're not paid either.

Writers can choose to write for current rates, they can say no to offers that don't involve pay, they can write on sites they own.

But we're not going back to the days before blogging.
Frankly, I'm not seeing the relevance of this observation, either. I don't think anyone is denying this point, but neither is anyone arguing it.

No one is saying that Thayer is a nice guy and therefore this was unfair to him. It's an unfair business practice, period. No matter who is on the receiving end of it.

Also, no one here is saying that we should return to former ways of doing business. If Thayer's character and background are irrelevant to the question of fair dealings for freelancers in digital media, then surely the way freelancers got paid before there was such a thing as digital media is even more irrelevant. The fact that things were done differently back when has no bearing on the ethics of business practices today.

Just as the comments about Thayer's bad reputation reminded me of the logical fallacies of ad hominem and well-poisoning, this one is sorta-almost reminding me of a false dichotomy, if I turn it about a bit and squint. Old Business Practices and Bad Business Practices are not the only options to be considered. I don't know if you meant to suggest that it is a choice between those two, but that seems to me that's the only thing the mention of old practices does for the conversation.
 

Deleted member 42

If Thayer's character and background are irrelevant to the question of fair dealings for freelancers in digital media, then surely the way freelancers got paid before there was such a thing as digital media is even more irrelevant.

You seem to be missing my points. Let me walk you back a bit:

When even the top of the field in journalism are asked to write "for exposure" by the top of field in magazine and news publishing then, yes, journalism is probably dying.

Hello, Journalism, and welcome to the wonderful world of "theft of service" where companies do their best to get the most of your work for the least in payment. And if they can bully or con you in to giving your work away for free, then it's all win as far as they're concerned.

Non-profits and small independent publications can get away with begging for free material if they offer some other benefit, such as a good cause to support or a desirable readership. But an organization like The Atlantic doesn't get that kind of privilege.

All those 5-dollar mills out there should be shut down. Maybe they should be forced to pay minimum wage. So what if it closes them down. I wouldn't really cry about it.

Let me try one more time.

If a writer doesn't like the pay, then the writer shouldn't take the contract.

If a writer doesn't like the pay, but needs the money, then take the contract.

But let's not remove sources of income from writers who may need them.

I say this as someone who makes a living by writing, much of it online.
 

muravyets

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You seem to be missing my points. Let me walk you back a bit:









Let me try one more time.

If a writer doesn't like the pay, then the writer shouldn't take the contract.

If a writer doesn't like the pay, but needs the money, then take the contract.

But let's not remove sources of income from writers who may need them.

I say this as someone who makes a living by writing, much of it online.
I understood all those points. Addressing them in turn:

1. I do not dispute that writers are free to turn down a contract if they don't like the terms. No one else has disputed that point either, as far as I can see in this thread.

2. I acknowledge that people who are in need of money may find themselves with little choice but to accept unfavorable terms. I perceive in your comments that you are saying there is no problem with such a situation. I do dispute that. I think there is a very serious problem with that situation when the terms are not just less-than-optimal but actually unethical.

If you recall, I stated earlier that there are situations in which a low-pay or no-pay offer of publication is legitimate. My argument is that when large-scale for-profit companies make no-pay their standard contract model and seek to persuade writers to accept such terms with meaningless promises of "good exposure" and other intangible and unmeasurable benefits, that is unethical. I believe that unethical and unfair business practices should be monitored by professional associations and by government agencies overseeing trade practices and that people likely to be affected by them should be educated to recognize such bad practices. The NEA as well as the Artists Guild do this for artists. I don't see why writers shouldn't get the same resources to protect their rights -- and to know what their rights are and what a fair contract should look like. (ETA2: As indeed, I believe they already do. The point of arguments here is how to address a negative trend coming from publications.)

3. I dispute the suggestion that there is significant value in a perpetually low-paying work-for-hire venue that would be lost by fair business regulation. I also dispute that allowing a truly free market in freelance contracting, in which the freelancers are just as educated and in the loop on business practices as the publishers, will remove an income source. You yourself pointed out the reason why: Freelancers can sign on for whatever terms they wish to accept. If some want to write short articles for $5 or $10 a pop, fine. Maybe they are highly prolific writers who can realize a comfortable living doing that. Rock-n-roll, then. Go for it. Or maybe they are hobbyist writers who just love to write, either about a special topic or about anything and everything, but who don't necessarily care about controlling their output or chasing a long-term career path. Cool, they should go for it, too.

Such venues are great for lots of people, for lots of reasons. Hell, if I were better at being productive, I'd write articles for small money, too, though I might do it under a pen name, since I'm trying to take my creative career in a different direction.

But the fact that low-pay or even no-pay is not always bad does not mean it's never bad, nor does it mean that there's no need to for writers to protect themselves from bad deals. Again, I say that a company that protects its own profit by denying income to the writers whose work they use is an unethical organization. ETA: The suggestions against the low-pay article mills under discussion here would not necessarily really shut down all low-price-point article venues. But it likely would winnow out the bad actors from the business.
 
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boozysassmouth

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I just want to make a distinction here.

Print journalism is dying. This has been an issue for at least eight years, if not longer. I know this, because this is when I was a junior in college, studying journalism (and print journalism at that), and I heard this in every single class. Basically, it amounted to print journalism is dying, veteran journalists are struggling, and none of you newbies will get jobs when you graduate. Very motivating that was.

Digital and TV journalism are doing fine, I believe, though the standards are degrading. Obviously, that isn't universal, but generally speaking the standards for print journalism are degrading. Blogs are replacing trained journalists. I remember various discussions about whether it was okay for untrained bloggers to call themselves journalists, and frankly, it infuriated me. When you spend so much time and money being trained to do something, and someone else sets up a blog in five minutes and says their a journalist, it makes you want to scream. Just being able to write or research doesn't make you a journalist, there's more to it than that. Again, this isn't to say that all blogs suck, so please don't jump down my throat. As for TV journalism, a lot of it's crap. This is especially true of the cable shows, but I've seen a lot of bad journalism in the network shows too.

Hilariously enough, all the unpaid internships that I've encountered as a graduate student were with government organizations.

I'm in an unpaid internship with a government organization now (forensic psychology, not journalism field), and I have to say, I'm grateful even without pay. Most government internships are unpaid due to budget issues (especially since congress hasn't approved a budget in several years), and I know for certain that if my internship wasn't paid, they just wouldn't offer it. It's a pretty prestigious position with an organization that looks pretty darn good in my field, so I'll take it even without pay, and I'm glad it isn't paid, so they can still offer it.

That said, yes unpaid internships make it very difficult for people in college and grad school to afford to live, and they screw over low income people.

On another topic, can someone please fill me in on the issue with Huffington Post? I wasn't aware of any issues with it.