Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

Judg · Apr 9, 2009

Bettielee, some people are comfortable writing out of sequence, others aren't. Whatever works. (Those last two words are the right answer for so many questions around here, it's insane...)

Sn00py · Apr 9, 2009

EFCollins said:
That being said, the novel is about a young Jewish girl in the future (our future, not post war future). She is a slave whose deed has been purchased by a prominent Aryan family in rural North Carolina. Laura is given as a gift to her new owner's twelve year old son. They grow up together and Laura being in young Ayden's life changes how he thinks about his "animals" (which is what any other race is considered by the "Aryans"). He and Laura marry secretly when they are older and join a rebel military group, called the Neo. (Name is being reconsidered atm) Laura's duties are to teach other Jewish refugees that they are not animals and are not owned by anyone other than themselves. She teaches the Aryan children whose families have taken refuge that what they have been taught through Hitler's long approved educational system is mostly lies. Ayden, however, uses military strategy to help this rebel group with the war against the Regime and to free the Global Republic, with his Uncle the President of the Global republic giving him his orders secretly via the commander of the Neo. The story is more Laura's than Ayden's, though they are married. Ayden's military movements are like a back story. He wants to free the world... Laura wants to free their minds.

Does that make any sense?

That sounds like something I want a peek at. I'm not sure how you could call this anything but a page turner unless you deliberately write it as boring, and even then I'd credit you as a very talented writer if you can suck out any excitement from such a conflict-heavy setup.

Then again, I haven't read it, so maybe you've managed to make it boring.

Or have I misunderstood what you mean by page turner? Are you just saying it's not an action piece?

If so, that doesn't mean you don't have a page turner. The Thirteenth Tale is by no means an action piece, but I could barely put the book down.

I recommend you check out Margaret Haddix and Lois Lowry, if you haven't already. They have written stories very much in the same line of what you have proposed.

smsarber · Apr 9, 2009

I think most of us do it. It's natural, really. I mean, you don't think of your story linear, start to finish. You'll get ideas for what will happen at different points in the story at different times. And it is definately a good way to shut down writer's block.

EFCollins · Apr 9, 2009

Sn00py said:
That sounds like something I want a peek at. I'm not sure how you could call this anything but a page turner unless you deliberately write it as boring, and even then I'd credit you as a very talented writer if you can suck out any excitement from such a conflict-heavy setup.

Then again, I haven't read it, so maybe you've managed to make it boring.

Or have I misunderstood what you mean by page turner? Are you just saying it's not an action piece?

If so, that doesn't mean you don't have a page turner. The Thirteenth Tale is by no means an action piece, but I could barely put the book down.

I recommend you check out Margaret Haddix and Lois Lowry, if you haven't already. They have written stories very much in the same line of what you have proposed.

No, it's not boring. It has action, but the novel isn't action oriented. You've hit it spot on as to what I meant.

Thanks. It's pacing is... weird. It's like you want to read it slowly so you don't miss anything. It's focused on the character's and how they are affected by their world, how they grow to see beyond the lies, all while trying to move forward and grow beyond their restrictions.

ETA: I myself write out of sequence. I get down whatever scene I'm interested in atm and work it all together in the finished product.

James D. Macdonald · Apr 9, 2009

In the wake of the great Queryfail flap (Google on "Queryfail" if you're totally curious), here is a summary of Lessons Learned.

Y'know how I keep saying "submit your book to worthwhile agents and legitimate publishers, following their guidelines to the letter"?

Note the very first lesson:

1. Failure to follow directions is an automatic rejection.

smsarber · Apr 9, 2009

I'm not usually very good at reading "the fine print", as I'll put it. Like when my son gets a new video game--I just glance through enough to tell him how to use the controls, and maybe a bit of the story line.

But when it comes to submission guidelines, I read word-for-word. And when I get to the point of querying agents I will make sure I follow their rules. I don't want my hard work to go to waste because I was too lazy to go about things the right way.

Speaking of agents, Uncle Jim, what do you think of the Association of Author's Representitives? They have a full database of agents, and the members have a code they must adhere to for representing writiers. That's where I plan to go to search for an agent.
Here's a link to the website:
http://www.aaronline.org/mc/directory/viewsimplesearch.do?orgId=aar

James D. Macdonald · Apr 9, 2009

AAR? Well-known and widely respected.

Not all worthwhile agents are members, but until you know the landscape that's the way to bet.

smsarber · Apr 9, 2009

That's what I thought. But it's good to have a second opinion.

euclid · Apr 10, 2009

bettielee said:
My question is: have you ever written ahead of yourself? As in writing the ending or the middle of the story/novel before you got there? I had a teacher suggest this in an "in-class writing course" and I wanted to run out screaming. (I eventually did - I do not write well under flouorescent lighting!) I felt like she was a man pressuring me into bed before I've gotten to know him! I admit that I've felt like a bit of a failure because I kept my knees closed and wasn't able to dive under the covers! Is this something really kooky, or do you "pro's" do this all the time?

My son, who has Asperger's Syndrome, went to a 'special' school (for 'special' read 'dreadful') in Dublin. I had to drive him there and collect him every day. One day I was late arriving to pick him up, and the staff suggested that he should 'do something on the computer' while waiting for me. He sat down, typed in 'Chapter 23' and started writing a novel (a fantasy).

James D. Macdonald · Apr 10, 2009

I write out-of-order all the time. As scenes become clear to me, I write them. Later I decide (or Doyle does) which scenes are part of this book, and where they go.

euclid · Apr 10, 2009

James D. Macdonald said:
I write out-of-order all the time. As scenes become clear to me, I write them. Later I decide (or Doyle does) which scenes are part of this book, and where they go.

I prefer to write in sequence, based on my outline. If I need to write, say chapter 10, while chapters 8 and 9 are missing, I put down a few words for each of chapters 8 and 9, and write chapter 10.

Every time you mention 'Doyle' I think you're talking about Sir Arthur Conan. Gives me a laugh every time.

smsarber · Apr 10, 2009

euclid said:
My son, who has Asperger's Syndrome, went to a 'special' school (for 'special' read 'dreadful') in Dublin. I had to drive him there and collect him every day. One day I was late arriving to pick him up, and the staff suggested that he should 'do something on the computer' while waiting for me. He sat down, typed in 'Chapter 23' and started writing a novel (a fantasy).

Now that is impressive.

Ken Schneider · Apr 10, 2009

James D. Macdonald said:
I write out-of-order all the time. As scenes become clear to me, I write them. Later I decide (or Doyle does) which scenes are part of this book, and where they go.

I actually learned to do this from UJ. When I get the mid-book blues I write what I know I want to happen in the end or on down the line from where I'm stuck. For me it helps cultivate ideas of how I can move on from the mid-book blight by figuring out how to get to what I've just written post stuck.

euclid · Apr 10, 2009

smsarber said:
Now that is impressive.

It would be if it led anywhere. He wrote obsessively for a few weeks, then stopped. (His mental history is a mess). I have all his stuff on floppy disks, but they are all password-protected. He has no interest in continuing with this now. He wrote what he wrote when he was about 16. He's 30 now.

I did read a paragraph or two over his shoulder, and it looked interesting. His MC was an androgynous warrior. There was lots of blood and guts, seemed like gratuitous violence, but maybe there was a point to it.

euclid · Apr 10, 2009

Amazon sales

Jim,

I wondered about Amazon sales of books. They sell secondhand copies of books at knockdown prices. Also, they sell 'new and used' copies at knockdown prices (often through external outlets).

Presumably, the author gets no royalties from the secondhand sales. Am I right in assuming the same is true for sales of the new copies in this 'new and used' category?

Would royalties be paid to authors for normal sales of new books through amazon?

James D. Macdonald · Apr 10, 2009

euclid said:
Would royalties be paid to authors for normal sales of new books through amazon?

Yes, of course they are.

An author is paid once, and only once, per physical volume. When the publisher gets money for the sale, they send part of it to the author.

After that it's like used cars: If you buy a car from some bloke that you found through a newspaper advert, neither you nor he has to send a check to the Ford Motor Company. The only folks who send money to Ford are the new car dealers.

FOTSGreg · Apr 10, 2009

Okay...

What about ebooks? Say you had established an ebook store (online or brick & mortar) and sold copies there to folks off the street. Each ebook could, arguably, be considered a new volume.

In my opinion, not that it counts, an ebook dealer should pay royalties to the author (or at least pay the wholesale rate to the publisher so the author would get a cut of that at least), but that's just my opinion.

James D. Macdonald · Apr 10, 2009

FOTSGreg said:
Okay...

What about ebooks? Say you had established an ebook store (online or brick & mortar) and sold copies there to folks off the street. Each ebook could, arguably, be considered a new volume.

In my opinion, not that it counts, an ebook dealer should pay royalties to the author (or at least pay the wholesale rate to the publisher so the author would get a cut of that at least), but that's just my opinion.

And, except for the pirates, ebook dealers do exactly that.

Want to buy some of my books in electronic format?

FOTSGreg · Apr 10, 2009

Okay... what constitutes a pirate ebook dealer? In theory, I could set up an online ebook store in about 10 minutes either through some service which charges a fee and never pays the dealer a dime (I've done it once in fact and never seen a dime in return).

Alternatively, I could set up an online ebook store with the ebooks I have access to and pay the publisher a fair wholesale price based on the retail price of each ebook sold at the going rate and the volume of sales.

One one hand you have an online version of a brick & mortar book store - you don't really care where the books came from (you ordered them, sold them, and paid for them in one fashion or another), and you're honest enough to want to kick back a percentage to the publisher and author - what is fair based on your sales. You even bother to obtain a reseller's license from the state.

On the other hand you have people and supposed stores out there that cannot offer half the selection you might be able to, but charge you a fee for the few ebooks you're able to offer through their store, and then never pay you the amount you're fairly entitled to according to their terms (there's always a catch somewhere - your sales don't add up to what they say, you need to pay extra service charges, etc., etc.).

Say I have an enormous collection of books and ebooks. Say I'd like to offer them for sale legitimately and pay the publishers and through them the authors a legitimate wholesale price and royalty. How would you recommend I do that without threats from some idiot saying I'm selling pirated books (even though I have a reseller's license) and trying to shut down my supposed little online bookstore?

How does an ebook dealer stay legit or even become legit in the first place?

James D. Macdonald · Apr 10, 2009

If you want to sell ebooks, talk to the publisher. Someone owns the rights; find that person/company and make a deal.

I don't think this is the right thread for this discussion.... but I bet there is such a thread somewhere at AW.

c.e.lawson · Apr 11, 2009

James D. Macdonald said:
I write out-of-order all the time. As scenes become clear to me, I write them. Later I decide (or Doyle does) which scenes are part of this book, and where they go.

This is how I seem to be working on my current WIP, which is different from the linear progression on my previous longer stories. When the scene is vivid in my head, it flows so nicely. When it's too vague or blank, no amount of staring at the computer screen helps, so I've been forced to jump ahead to scenes that are more clear. (Which will make writing the transitions a large task in my revisions, unfortunately, but that's the only way I can make good forward progress right now.)

But Uncle Jim -- what do you do on those days where no scene is clear to you?

c.e.

Ken Schneider · Apr 11, 2009

c.e.lawson said:
This is how I seem to be working on my current WIP, which is different from the linear progression on my previous longer stories. When the scene is vivid in my head, it flows so nicely. When it's too vague or blank, no amount of staring at the computer screen helps, so I've been forced to jump ahead to scenes that are more clear. (Which will make writing the transitions a large task in my revisions, unfortunately, but that's the only way I can make good forward progress right now.)

But Uncle Jim -- what do you do on those days where no scene is clear to you?

c.e.

Write badly< of course, but write none-the-less.

James D. Macdonald · Apr 11, 2009

c.e.lawson said:
But Uncle Jim -- what do you do on those days where no scene is clear to you?

Throw any BS that comes into my head up on screen.

Let's see:

"There's a scene here," Maincharacter said. "Why the foo aren't you writing it?"

"Because I don't friggin' see it," the author replied.

"As if I'm going to take that for an excuse? Look, Lady McSwiggin is going to have to lose her necklace if Fred is going to find it in time for the action/adventure climax. So why not do that bit?"

"Because there isn't a Lady McSwiggin isn't in this book. Who the foo is Lady McSwiggin?"

"Hey, are you expecting me to do your job for you?" Maincharacter looked at the author with exasperation dripping from his moustache. (He had bought the exasperation at Al's House of Nouns; it was his last bottle.) "I suppose I do. She's the character with the necklace."

"That didn't clarify things. What necklace?"

"The cursed one."

"Cursed one?"

"Is there an echo in here? The cursed blue one."

"You just stacked two adjectives on one noun."

"La-di-friggin'-dah. Look who's going all English Major on me now. If you don't start writing your book, if you make me write your book, you won't believe what I'm going to do to the prose."

"Okay, okay!" Suddenly, without warning, a naked woman screamed!

It was Lady McSwiggin, and she was standing at the door. "Open up right now," she screamed again.

Maincharacter turned the knob and pulled the door in. "My lady!"

Lady McSwiggin stepped inside, as Maincharacter shut the door behind her. "Would you like a pair of jodhpurs?" he asked. "I think I have some that will fit you...."

"Never mind that. I need you to hide something for me." She reached behind her neck and unclasped the necklace that she wore. The blue pendant, a diamond the size of a dwarf hamster, lay distractingly between her breasts. "Take this," she said, pressing the necklace into Maincharacter's hand. "Lord Halfbaked must never find it!"

And so on.

Judg · Apr 11, 2009

I sense a novel in there somewhere...

Blue Sky · Apr 11, 2009

Ha! That's funny Jim. Do you and Doyle have a lot of laughs while sharing these parts? Nice to have each other as in-house faithful readers.

I'm on vacation for a week starting tomorrow with plenty of bic planned for the novel and my second non-fiction book. The uj thread and truck repair focus paid off--first time in six months I've had a functioning, road-legal vehicle! Thanks to your timely example, I feel free to verbally defecate all over my screen, if necessary. As Judg noted, the story is there.

A thought came to mind while browsing in a used bookstore today.

Over the years I've noticed that when a piece is finished, different readers enjoy different parts and may not get others. The nature of their comments is of a different quality than when something is not yet ready. I feel different about their comments as well.

Anybody notice that? In other words, the wide variety of faithful reader comments remains. However, the comments slowly shift from author fuzziness and reader clarity to author clarity and reader fuzziness.

At this point I often smile inside, amazed once again at the magical telepathy of written sharing. It's never the same, even with the same work and the same reader. We change, so our perception of a given work changes.

Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

DISENCHANTED coming soon

Literary Laureate

Coming soon to a nightmare near you

World Class Rambler

Your Genial Uncle

Coming soon to a nightmare near you

Your Genial Uncle

Coming soon to a nightmare near you

Where did I put me specs?

Your Genial Uncle

Where did I put me specs?

Coming soon to a nightmare near you

Absolute sagebrush

Where did I put me specs?

Where did I put me specs?

Your Genial Uncle

Today is your last day.

Your Genial Uncle

Today is your last day.

Your Genial Uncle

Absolute sagebrush

Your Genial Uncle

DISENCHANTED coming soon