What do you do when....?

I think you just do it because you want to. But I don't really know for sure. I haven't gotten much farther than you.

(Still want to though! Maybe I won't ask for feedback until it's done.)

ltd.

Give yourself permission to write crap. Really.

You'll learn more from finishing the process, even if the final product is not salable, than you will from yet another false start. And, no matter what you do with the finished manuscript -- trunk it, market it, rewrite it, turn it into birdcage liners -- don't you want to grow and learn from the experience?

Another thing you need to know is 10K is a point where many people falter and say, "This story is crap. Who am I kidding? I'm not a novelist. I might as well give up and get a job at a burger joint." You need to push through. There are points where the writing becomes work. This is one of them. Keep going and it becomes fun again.

Again, remember, it doesn't matter if the manuscript is ever published. The only way to reach the next level of development is to finish the process the first time. Learn what you can. Grow from the experience. Move forward.

Hi Brian,

Well,it's great that you have finally started! I also took a very long hiatus from writing--it was a dream I'd given up. But then it slipped back into my life.

So look at it this way: you have just begun. If you had just recently decided to learn to play the cello, would you expect to be able to join the symphony within the first year? Get paying gigs? Make a recording? Of course not. You'd consider your playing a work in progess. You'd expect to spend some years perfecting your art.

But somehow, with writing, because we have all been literate in English forever (assuming it's our first language) and maybe wrote some okay stuff in high school or college, we don't realize there is a similar learning curve. We are all beginners, when we start doing "creative writing" in a serious way. Some would say the first book should be considered practice, at least for most of us. (It's fine to aim high--I'm still hoping my first book gets picked up--but I've become very realistic about all this.)

So don't feel bad! It is just how it is, for awhile. So welcome....

Susan

I'm feeling the same way tonight--someone just ripped my synopsis to shreds--suggesting that the problems aren't in the synopsis, actually, but in the plotting of just about the entire novel. Maybe they're right. I don't think so, but then I also get that nagging feeling that of course they're right, and who am I trying to kid.

On the other hand, first drafts are supposed to suck. It's probably better for you not to get feedback until you've worked on it as much as you can, and feel like it's the best you've been able to do so far. Bad feedback too early just makes it impossible to shut up the inner critic and get moving.

Have you read Stephen King's book On Writing? I mean, even he thinks his first drafts suck. But he keeps raking in the dough....

Just remember, good books aren't written; they are re-written.

If your first draft comes out as crap, feel free to write crap. At least then you have something tangible to rewrite and revise until it is something good. Some authors can do this in one or two revisions, others in 40 or 50 (King, I've heard, usually takes 2 revisions. Koontz has said he revises each page at least 50 times).

Writing is like everything else and you'll find the more you do it, the less that first draft will resemble crap.

Listen to Birol and Prozyan. They made a smart comment.

Birol said:

Give yourself permission to write crap. Really.

You'll learn more from finishing the process, even if the final product is not salable, than you will from yet another false start. And, no matter what you do with the finished manuscript -- trunk it, market it, rewrite it, turn it into birdcage liners -- don't you want to grow and learn from the experience?

Another thing you need to know is 10K is a point where many people falter and say, "This story is crap. Who am I kidding? I'm not a novelist. I might as well give up and get a job at a burger joint." You need to push through. There are points where the writing becomes work. This is one of them. Keep going and it becomes fun again.

Again, remember, it doesn't matter if the manuscript is ever published. The only way to reach the next level of development is to finish the process the first time. Learn what you can. Grow from the experience. Move forward.

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What he said.

You've got to get over that dicipline hurdle and finish that book. Otherwise you'll be stuck with a closet-full of false starts, giving yourself permission to can anything you think is substandard. Go for that long haul, kick back, re-read and re-write after a cooling off period. Relax and make it a fun chore. Nobody has a gun to your head. Stay off the internet for a bit too. That helps.

Tri

Prozyan is right! Don't give up!

For me, the hardest part of the book is right after that initial start (usually about 10k or so) and then again as you gear up towards the end (around 50-60k).

But DO give yourself permission to let the crap flow on the page. No rough draft ever turns out like gold, and you have permission to fix it as many times as you want to later. It's the forward momentum that you need to keep yourself going.

And there is NO better feeling in the world than finishing your first novel. It doesn't matter how rag-tag or piecemeal the entire thing is. If you can look through it and go "Wow, I've completed a novel!" it gives you the biggest sense of accomplishment. You feel like you can do anything at that point.

My first one was hugely epic and all over the place, and I showed it to another writer who had an agent (and was obviously more important than me). She looked at it and told me "Oh honey, that's crap. And your characters are so unlikeable!" It was devastating - I didn't write on the thing for six months after that.

But then I looked back at the half-finished novel one day and decided I still loved it, and made the decision to keep writing. And I did finish it. And it's been a mad, wild ride since then and I haven't regretted a bit of it (or the first novel still sitting in a trunk somewhere).

Also, it's not necessarily the first novel that's the winner, but it's just as important to write it. I got my agent and a book deal with the 5th one I wrote. I just wrapped up the sequel - book #10. Everything in between is still out in limbo. Not wasted effort at all, because I love those books with intensity, and I can always go back and rewrite them.

I think it was Nora Roberts that said something about how you can rewrite a bad page, but you can't rewrite a blank page?

BrianTubbs said:

Well...I have finally FORCED myself to plow ahead. I'm now almost 10,000 words into a project - it's the furthest I've EVER written on a fiction project.

BUT.....

It sucks.

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I've published three novels. I'm working on my fourth. 10,000 words in, I realized that it sucks. But now I know I can fix it later. (And if it turns out I can't, I'll start over from scratch and salvage as much as I can.)

My first drafts are always really, really bad. I revise things as many as 15 times (sometimes more) before considering it worthy of submitting anywhere. Don't be discouraged by the rough start - writing is a lot of hard work, much harder than non-writers know. As you revise, you will improve the piece. You'll think you've gotten it as good as you can, then when you read it again another day, you'll improve it even more.

No one sets out to write badly but writing is a craft that must be practiced, just like any other. It takes time to hone your skills and you can only do that by writing, writing, writing. Take a night class or two in creative writing. It's great to be among other aspiring writers and learn some of the basics in a group setting. Read a lot. Many people recommend that you read in your genre of choice. I'm not real sure that's necessary. I didn't do much reading in my own genre but read a lot in other genres as well as some nonfiction. But read you must and write you must. Good luck to you!
Linnea

If you're still stuck come November, please consider joining in for NaNo (www.nanowrimo.org). I finally quit screwing around and wrote my first completed draft after finding Chris Baty's book "No Plot? No Problem!" at my library. At the time, I was already involved with a small group of writers (and it was April, a long way to November), so I convinced a few of them to join me in the quest to complete a draft in 30 days. We did our own NaNo in May. It was awesome.

Sure, the book is filled with little gems like, "She removed a glass from the glass-fronted cabinet." And the first several chapters break at about 3000 words, followed by one long chapter of about 20,000 words (???), but I DID IT! I wrote a book that wasn't perfect, it goes from first person to third person and back again, flips from past to present tense, sometimes within a single sentence, and it was one of the best experiences in my life. Because as bad as the writing is for the most part, there's scenes I'm very proud of, and it's actually a pretty damn good story.

What you've discovered is that writing is hard work. Welcome to the club! The reason most people don't ever finish their first novel is because most of the time first novels suck, and they end up getting trunked anyway. It takes time and patience and a lot of hard work to become a good writer.

Think about it this way: You wouldn't spend years psyching yourself up to go play basketball, finally get the courage to pick up a ball, and then be surprised when you totally missed your first shot. Right? I mean, that's silly. You have to DO it, you have to PRACTICE for a long time before you get anywhere close to good.

Some people enjoy writing enough to do keep at it until this happens. Other people don't. Do it if you love it.

Siddow said:

Sure, the book is filled with little gems like, "She removed a glass from the glass-fronted cabinet."

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Mine had "watery waterway."

(Global search-and-replace isn't necessarily your friend.)

BrianTubbs said:

This is new territory. I can write sermons (I'm a pastor), lesson plans (I'm a former teacher), essays and/or nonfiction articles (I've been published in a handful of magazines and newspapers) - and do those things without much revision. It comes naturally. I kind of expected the same dynamic with this novel, but I guess that was unrealistic.

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You can do all those in one draft because you have practice in those forms. You don't yet have that kind of practice in for fiction.

Gosh. I'm sorry if I helped to make this more difficult for you than it should be! My draft stuff is downright embarrassing (that's why you won't see me letting it all hang out in SYW, lol).

The best advice I got was to just ignore the inner critic that makes you second guess yourself. Tell them they'll get their chance to comment later, but not now, lol. First drafts stink for a lot of writers...almost everyone has to edit, revise, and/or rewrite in order to get something that is publishable. Get the story down first, worry about it's relative prettiness later!

I actually learned the hard way that you should NOT let people crit your stuff unless you have 1) Finished it 2) Polished it until YOU cannot see any more mistakes. Because if you ask people to look for flaws, they will gleefully shred it (and rightfully so).

Plus, I think you have to be at a certain point/frame of mind to accept criticism. It took me years to get there. When you get to the point when someone says "Your character is awful!" and your response is "OMG Yay!" and not "You jerk!" then you are ready. *g*

Birol said:

Give yourself permission to write crap. Really.

You'll learn more from finishing the process, even if the final product is not salable, than you will from yet another false start. And, no matter what you do with the finished manuscript -- trunk it, market it, rewrite it, turn it into birdcage liners -- don't you want to grow and learn from the experience?

Another thing you need to know is 10K is a point where many people falter and say, "This story is crap. Who am I kidding? I'm not a novelist. I might as well give up and get a job at a burger joint." You need to push through. There are points where the writing becomes work. This is one of them. Keep going and it becomes fun again.

Again, remember, it doesn't matter if the manuscript is ever published. The only way to reach the next level of development is to finish the process the first time. Learn what you can. Grow from the experience. Move forward.

Click to expand...

Pure wisdom.

Brian: Print this out and put it above where your computer sits.

gearing up.

BrianTubbs said:

So, what do you do when you've spent years gearing up to really start writing....you then start and you find out that, no matter how much enthusiasm or energy or excitement you have, your writing isn't good?

.

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I think you have to realize that years of "gearing up" are just wasted years, and that it takes years of actually sitting down and writing day in and day out, and finishing each thing you start, to turn bad writing into good. Enthusiasm, energy, and excitement do not make writing any better. Years of actually writing makes writing better.

You're still at the beginner stage, so you just have to put your head down, your hands on the keyboards, and write until you get good.

IMHO, it is better to have finished one novel that is complete crap than to have started ten novels that are total brilliance. Once you have finished a novel--crap or not--you can do it again.

Good luck--it really is frustrating sometimes, but worth it!!!

BrianTubbs said:

This is new territory. I can write sermons (I'm a pastor), lesson plans (I'm a former teacher), essays and/or nonfiction articles (I've been published in a handful of magazines and newspapers) - and do those things without much revision. It comes naturally. I kind of expected the same dynamic with this novel, but I guess that was unrealistic.

Thank you

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Deirdre said:

You can do all those in one draft because you have practice in those forms. You don't yet have that kind of practice in for fiction.

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Jamesaritchie said:

I think you have to realize that years of "gearing up" are just wasted years, and that it takes years of actually sitting down and writing day in and day out, and finishing each thing you start, to turn bad writing into good. Enthusiasm, energy, and excitement do not make writing any better. Years of actually writing makes writing better.

You're still at the beginner stage, so you just have to put your head down, your hands on the keyboards, and write until you get good.

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Yup. You're still at fledgling stage in fiction, but your background and dedication suggest that you won't stay there. Just keep pushing ahead. All this writing is valuable experience. You early sermons probably weren't anything like the ones you are able to deliver now.

I gets better. And kudos to you for listening to crits with an honest heart and not being defensive and protective. That's very valuable in a writer and a person.

As Stephen King says in On Writing, write the first draft with the door closed! That way you won't worry about writing crap, because it's just for you and you alone. (I couldn't make my wife understand for the longest time why I couldn't even have her in the room when I was trying to writer a speech, much less a book! But she's great about not wanting to read anything until I'm ready.)

And don't be afraid to suck. Remember: what you see in a published book is never the first draft.