Tenses

Diviner · Dec 31, 2008

"Lyon straddles the Rhone River, a waterway so deep and navigable that sea faring ships have long sailed its waters, cargo ships carriyng precious trade goods north and south. In the Middle Ages, the silk industry centered at Lyon where the Saone and the Rhone converge. To this day the covered streets in the old town lead from the old manufacturies down to the river. Where once the precious goods were protected from the hazards of the weather, the tunnels remain, their dark and twisting passages used again during WWII as escape routes and traps by members of the French Resistance."

Green =present. Red=past.

Okay, we're talking about history, geography, economics, and remnants of the past existing to the present day. Is it distracting to mix the tenses, to remind readers that, for all the changes, the place is real? My concern is that the story is written in past tense, but it seems wrong to me to use past tense for what still exists, the rivers, the cities, the tunnels.

I have the feeling this has been discussed before, but I have no idea where to look. Anyone care to comment?

GirlWithPoisonPen · Dec 31, 2008

Diviner said:
"Lyon straddles the Rhone River, a waterway so deep and navigable that sea faring ships have long sailed its waters, ~~cargo ships~~ carrying precious trade goods north and south. In the Middle Ages, the silk industry centered at Lyon where the Saone and the Rhone converge. [This sentence is confusing. What's the connection between the Saone and silk trade? You said above that Lyon straddles the Rhone and then introduce a second river.]To this day the covered streets in the old town lead from the old manufacturies [?? not sure about this word] down to the river. Where once the precious goods were protected from the hazards of the weather, the tunnels remain, their dark and twisting passages used again during WWII as escape routes and traps by members of the French Resistance." <The covered streets that protected precious cargo from the elements as it traveled from the river to the city center still remain. In World War II, instead of protecting silk or spices, the dark and twisting passages offered escape routes and santuary for the French Resistance. Only a Nazi with a death wish dared to venture into the tunnels for fear of stepping into a trap.>

Okay, we're talking about history, geography, economics, and remnants of the past existing to the present day. Is it distracting to mix the tenses, to remind readers that, for all the changes, the place is real? My concern is that the story is written in past tense, but it seems wrong to me to use past tense for what still exists, the rivers, the cities, the tunnels.

I have the feeling this has been discussed before, but I have no idea where to look. Anyone care to comment?

What's the importance of Saone to Lyon? What's the importance of the silk trade? If you're going to mention them, then you have to explain significance.

Diviner · Dec 31, 2008

GirlWithPoisonPen said:
What's the importance of Saone to Lyon? What's the importance of the silk trade? If you're going to mention them, then you have to explain significance.

Thanks for the crit, but I just used the quote to show the mix up in tenses. The two rivers converge at Lyon. Perhaps I should have said "Old Town," to designate the remnants of the walled city, but again I wasn't looking for a crit. I'm pretty sure others have had questions about referring to things still existing from the past.

Mumut · Dec 31, 2008

I think the tenses are correct. Those things in past tense happened in the past - 'have sailed' being past thru present so it is not only in the past. The other past things don't happen now. I see no problems.

Puma · Dec 31, 2008

I agree with Mumut. Everything that's written in past tense happened in the past; what's in present is still true today. I wouldn't consider this mixing tenses at all - it actually reads pretty well. Puma

Diviner · Dec 31, 2008

Thanks for the replies, but I seem to have communicated my concern poorly. I have no doubts about the grammatical correctness of my use of tenses in the example above. My question has to do more with style, with whether the use of present tense in narrative takes the reader out of the dream. This is what my question refers to. My not capitalizing "old town" confused Girl--an example of how punctuation and grammar can make a difference. So it is, I believe, with tenses. Are others bedeviled by such questions?

BAY · Dec 31, 2008

I was in a critique group and the members made a big deal of this topic. My beta readers caught this whenever, I missed it. This is a natural change to me but when you're editing and making changes, sometimes this happens by mistake. Beta readers so rock!

Is it distracting? Yes, if it happens in every paragraph, but in the manner you indicate by example, I say no.

Puma · Jan 1, 2009

Diviner, I didn't find it distracting. But, I think you'd probably be better off to re-work it to be all past tense. I have seen writing such as this in travel brochures, so maybe one of the considerations is what your intended use is - that might make a difference. Puma

Palmfrond · Jan 1, 2009

I don't find these tenses distracting either. It is perfectly sensible to refer to things that existed in the past and continue to exist in this way - readers expect this construction and understand it without being pulled into the present.

GirlWithPoisonPen · Jan 1, 2009

Diviner said:
Thanks for the crit, but I just used the quote to show the mix up in tenses. The two rivers converge at Lyon. Perhaps I should have said "Old Town," to designate the remnants of the walled city, but again I wasn't looking for a crit. I'm pretty sure others have had questions about referring to things still existing from the past.

My apologies. I thought you had posted in SWY.

Diviner · Jan 1, 2009

Second Thoughts

Puma, I've been thinking about the snippet I posted as an example and have decided that, although it is correct and perfectly understandable, this kind of narration is not story-friendly, that it is too omniscient for the kinds of stories I am writing. It took me awhile to see it, but I think I understand its limitations better now. I don't want someone making broad, sweeping explanations, me or anyone else, and I think thats what happens with this type of narration.

To everyone else, I thank you for your attention.

Tenses

Diviner

GirlWithPoisonPen

Mata Hari

Diviner

Mumut

Well begun is half done...

Puma

Retired and loving it!

Diviner

BAY

Puma

Retired and loving it!

Palmfrond

cereal killer

GirlWithPoisonPen

Mata Hari

Diviner